MsEllie

Does it cost exponentially more to make a mid-engine look more exotic? Just saw the Ferrari P80/3 at Motor 1. I'm certain the look may not be everyone's cup of tea, however I find the one-off quite stunning. I wondered how much more it would cost the General to, say, make the new C8 look even more exotic than some of the extraordinary C8 best-guess renderings we have had the privilege to enjoy on this board.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/...6&q=60&o=f&l=f

Have no idea if my copy and paste will work.

oregonsharkman

I've often asked that same question. There are certain aspects of "exotic" looks that definitely cost more money such as show quality paint jobs, $10,000 wheels and carbon fiber, but in theory there is no reason why a manufacturer couldn't build something that looks basically like a P80 for much much less.

That being said, it wouldn't be of the quality or performance of a P80 at a fraction of the price, it would just kind of look like a crappy version of it.

Road Runner

Here it is. Daily driver for sure.

Skid Row Joe

You're going to always get a massive bang for your buck with Corvette. The new C8 already shows exotic lines underneath all that canvas covering.

Not sure what you're asking? ? Unless you've got the $300K to $450K to spend on an "exotic," just be happy with a budget -$100K, C8.



..

MsEllie

See previous poster who addressed my question with interesting comments. I believe I did already pay tribute to some outstanding renderings of the anxiously awaited C8. Btw, I own a lovely C6 roadster and am probably worth $6 Million CAD. And you are correct, I do not have enough net worth to get into any Ferrari club. Some members of this board live in houses worth my net worth.

Lacquer

Wow, looks exactly like a Ford GT.

IronV

There is no correlation between cost and design aesthetics.

None.

Zero.

Stoplight

It looks similar, not exactly like the Ford GT. The design brief was use the 330 P3/4 and 1966 Dino 206 S. You also see a little bit of 250 LM in there. Ford GT is coincidental, because most younger people don’t have the frame of reference, and two, the Ford GT uses the Ford GT40 as a design reference, which is from the 60s, and correct if I am wrong, was not an American design. Even the Miura looks similar. The three curves design element—-front fender curve, cabin curve, and then rear fender curve.

gymdoc

Damn.. i want one..

Warp Factor

Bet it won't hold even one golf bag.....

MsEllie

I know, it's nice!!

jefnvk

If you are asking if it costs any more to produce it, no, not really. Maybe slight differences from a more complex mold, but nothing significant.

If you are asking if it can cost more to design, then yes, absolutely. Especially so if what we consider beauty is actually aero that took hundreds or thousands of hours in a wind tunnel to develop.

1SG_Ret

I often wondered the same thing. Certainly a company could not get away with making a direct copy of and exotic (even though there would probably some market for such a car). The C7 borrowed heavily from the 2014 Ferrari F12. Enough that it would stir a buyer like myself to buy one, but not enough where they could be accused of stealing Ferrari's design.

I'm guessing we will see a similar tribute (for lack of a better word) with the C8. As you stated, it may not be everyone's "cup of tea" (can't tell you number of guys that said they hated the C7 because it looked like a "Frickin' Ferrari"), but with price expected to be in the $60'sK for a base version (which IMO is far far what I consider an entry level car), it should sell extremely well and over time convert some of the nay-sayers into buyers.

I am amazed that Toyota strayed a bit too far away from their Supra design car w/ the production model. Loved the prototype, but find their production car a bit off-putting. Maybe they determined that some production elements would be too difficult to incorporate.

Still, I wonder why manufacturers can't bring a prototype to market (if only the skin part).

tslick98

The subject of cost for the upcoming C8 has been one of much debate here and one i have steered clear of. I'm sure i'm in the minority on my opinion.
I wish once, just once, GM would pull out all the stops and build a world class supercar without the "bang for the buck" moniker attached to it. Let the cost fall where it may and if it's more than i can pay, so be it. Just because i can't afford it, does that mean it shouldn't be built?
Again, just my opinion.

Racer X

Not true. Certain design features are significantly more difficult and costly to produce, especially when they have to meet governmental regulations. Body panel shapes that will not easily release from a mold or die must be pieced together adding expense, if you don't want a patch work finish. Certain exposed materials are more expensive. Exposed carbon fiber of a finished quality is more expensive in paint quality carbon fiber. There are many design aesthetics that are simply more expensive to achieve. Even when you just consider shape.

Certain design aesthetics are not cost efficiently serviceable.

The list goes on. I will agree, that within certain limited parameters, a pretty car an ugly car may not cost much different to produce.

Shaka

There have always been parallels between Ferrari and Corvette designs including round lights. Here is a Corvettified rendition of this Ferrari.

C7pimp

That's not true.

It's largely true, but not completely true.

Surface finishes in tools cost different depending on which one you use. Some surface finishes require a laser-etching process and those laser machines themselves cost over a million dollars just to purchase and operation is not a super quick process. or if you farm it out it is going to be quite costly to ship tools to another facility and have the process applied to the tool surface. Time = money too.

Manufacturing processes of extra complex geometries which requires specialized tooling to produce costs more to create the tooling and is almost always inherently slower to produce 1 part because of the extra steps in the process. Producing 500 units in a day vs producing 800 units in a day is a big deal. Producing 5,000 units in a day vs being able to produce 15,000 units in a day is a big deal. Aesthetic design choices can drive the ability to produce quickly. Bottom line, it can cost more money.

In my current line of work, we have SKU #'s that are produced anywhere from 20,000 to 1.2 Million units per year. We have product designed by me with aesthetic choices that require specialized tooling processes to produce which make the component more expensive to produce than other products of the same category. An extra $0.30 cost on a 375,000 annual quantity adds up a lot for that product. That's about $100,000 spread. Not chump change. Add that up over 4 years running now and you're looking at $400K. Luckily this SKU is also one of our most successful and highest margin products we have and the aesthetic itself is a large part of what is driving sales in the first place. There's a lot to consider when making something.



However, if you want to make a $25,000 car look like an Aston Martin from the outside, that GENERALLY wouldn't cost you much more than making it look like a Honda Accord.

MitchAlsup

GM could buy a design from a design house like Pininfarina used to be,and pay PF a royalty of about $1,000 per car (at Vette production rates) and get the exotic look.

GM penny pinchers would not allow this overhead to be added to the vehicle.

And thus, we are where we are.......

C7pimp

There are plenty of fully capable car designers that can do this that GM could hire full time, and guess what, they did and are part of Corvette's design team.

When trying to carry a certain brand I.D. forward in modernity it's a very tricky and particular process. As evidenced by the large array of lovers and haters of all generations of Corvette thus far, you can't please everyone.

It wouldn't be hard to blatantly copy a Ferrari design and slap it on a chassis, but what the design team aims to do is make a most modern version that people can look at and instantly recognize as a Corvette.

Ford did an outstanding job with this on the 2015+ Mustangs.

Porsche on the other hand plays it way too safe and the result of the 2020 911 is an old-hat basic refresh of the design with slightly different wheelbase and accompanying body proportions. Apples and Oranges as Porsche humpers will buy anything Porsche produces regardless of how unoriginal every new generation is. This isn't a problem for them though so they follow the formula that has been successful.


GM must make this car identify unmistakably with the heritage of the Corvette brand or it is at a greater risk of failure. Incorporating certain elements of the car's design to make it do that and not make it too safe but not too much of a departure from the I.D. is extremely difficult. It's doable and I believe GM has done it.

bob53

As long as GM continues to mass produce the corvette and use the same supply chain model - the status quo is not going anywhere. This is a good thing insofar that the C8 will be far more cost effective than competitors. Further, corvette has done a great job incorporating exotic materials in their cars as far back as the C5 when they started offering Mg wheels and a Ti exhaust system.

The down side to this is that (as some on this thread are far more knowledgeable than myself) some of the subtle details in parts and body panel shapes will not compare to the exotics.

The simple fact is that in order for corvette to be profitable for GM, they need to continue to offer an entry level car that is based upon 2019 dollars far lower than 100K. The market for 100K+ cars is far more limited and I'm sure they realize they would loose marketshare.

Since the only way to keep the higher end corvettes cost effective is to share a common platform as the base car, there will always be design compromises. I personally think they do a good job given these constraints but it will never look quite as finished as a Ferrari 488 for example. If they allowed the supercar variant of the corvette to be a separate model to avoid some of these tradeoffs, expect the pricing to be north of 200K and I suspect it would be a financial failure for GM. The C4 ZR1 is a great example of a sales failure despite being an incredible car.