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Originally Posted by Garret
Why, I don't believe it's ridiculous now and I won't believe it any more ridic a year after, IMO..It's not that people won't buy this car without it, it's that people like me believe that after all this time GM can't/won't put AWD in a sports car is ridiculous. To me that is a failure. Again,this is my opinion and maybe you just don't like it, that's OK.
I guess the Ferrari 488 GTB, F8 Tributo and the 812 Superfast, which are all RWD, are failures. I guess the Porsche 911 GT2 is a failure because it's RWD. I guess the McLaren 720S is a failure because it's RWD.
Punky is right, your post is completely ridiculous.
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Punky is right, your post is completely ridiculous.
Yep, all failures IMO...thanks for pointing out the additional cars that fail due to no AWD...You only think it's ridiculous because you don't agree, I'm ok with that.Originally Posted by C7pimp
I guess the Ferrari 488 GTB, F8 Tributo and the 812 Superfast, which are all RWD, are failures. I guess the Porsche 911 GT2 is a failure because it's RWD. I guess the McLaren 720S is a failure because it's RWD.Punky is right, your post is completely ridiculous.
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Punky is right, your post is completely ridiculous.
Exactly. When 720S's are running the 1/4 mile in under 10 seconds there is no need for AWD.Originally Posted by C7pimp
I guess the Ferrari 488 GTB, F8 Tributo and the 812 Superfast, which are all RWD, are failures. I guess the Porsche 911 GT2 is a failure because it's RWD. I guess the McLaren 720S is a failure because it's RWD.Punky is right, your post is completely ridiculous.
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You gave no claim as to what basis they are failures. The best modificaiton I ever did to any of my cars I have owned was removing the AWD system from my Gallardo. The car is so much more fun to drive, rides better and no longer understeers. Sure now it gets stuck in my driveway in the snow but dam it hasn't even snowed here in 3-4 years so I am not missing much. Originally Posted by Garret
Yep, all failures IMO...thanks for pointing out the additional cars that fail due to no AWD...You only think it's ridiculous because you don't agree, I'm ok with that.
The whole point of changing the C8 to a ME design is to put more weight over the drive wheels and optimize the moment of inertia. No need for AWD at reasonable power levels. The ME corvette should have more favorable handling characteristics than the current design. AWD will likely come in the form of electric motors to the front wheels rather than a second driveshaft - probably to a higher HP version where the power demands more traction from the front wheels.
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less reliability
far higher weight
significant battery replacemt costs after 6/8 years
lower resale value due to expensive repair and maintence costs
but yes, it will come due to government regulations
This has nothing to do with government regulations, Area 51 or the Tri-lateral commission.Originally Posted by NY09C6
the down sides are significantly higher purchase priceless reliability
far higher weight
significant battery replacemt costs after 6/8 years
lower resale value due to expensive repair and maintence costs
but yes, it will come due to government regulations
It has to do with efficiency, and physics, and technology. BTW, your HVAC system runs on electricity, and your car has had a battery since 1918. F! cars use this technology.
Your clams that this is too expensive, too heavy, and had higher maintenance costs are rubbish.
Throw out your steam-powered computer, and go back to your slide rule, because transisters and ICs are simply too costly, and too high maintenance to build a computer.
punky
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He doesn't agree with you because you are wrong. AWD sports cars suck ***. There is no reason for the C8 with mid engine to come with AWD. You live in a horrible winter climate area and probably have the AWD mentality burned into your frozen brain. For gods sake we are not talking about pick up trucks here. What are you going to do put a plow on the front of your C8?Originally Posted by Garret
Yep, all failures IMO...thanks for pointing out the additional cars that fail due to no AWD...You only think it's ridiculous because you don't agree, I'm ok with that.
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Nice bed side manners Doc. I can see that wasn’t your strong suit. The “God” mentality burns strong even after retirement apparently!Originally Posted by punky
He doesn't agree with you because you are wrong. AWD sports cars suck ***. There is no reason for the C8 with mid engine to come with AWD. You live in a horrible winter climate area and probably have the AWD mentality burned into your frozen brain. For gods sake we are not talking about pick up trucks here. What are you going to do put a plow on the front of your C8?
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The Mercedes AMG GT R Pro did the Ring in 7:04 and it's a front engine/torque tube/7 speed DCT transaxle, with coilovers instead of leaf springs, and RWD, and only 577 HP out of it's 4.0L Hot V twin turbo V8. Just wait until they release the Black Series.
Just shows what an "obsolete" front engine sports car can do with RWD and no electric motors driving the front wheels.
Just shows what an "obsolete" front engine sports car can do with RWD and no electric motors driving the front wheels.
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I wouldn’t mind seeing an AWD Corvette. A well designed torque vectoring AWD system can make a car do incredible things. All the fast RWD cars people are using as examples of why AWD isn’t needed would be even faster with a good AWD system.
But Im fine with it being RWD only. Just don’t get all the AWD hate in some circles. I get the impression that most people just haven’t driven a good, modern AWD car.
But Im fine with it being RWD only. Just don’t get all the AWD hate in some circles. I get the impression that most people just haven’t driven a good, modern AWD car.
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Same here and I'm in MI. I learned to drive on a RWD with far from a 50/50 weight balance and it was fine through the winter. AWD mostly makes it easy for idiots to drive too fast for the conditions.Originally Posted by rgregory
Exactly. AWD is great in the winter but most people wouldn't drive their Vettes in the snow/ice anyway. I live in Texas and when I see cars like Cadilacs, BMW, Mercedes and they have the AWD options I am like what a waste of money, gas and weight.
Not that a 4X4 truck isn't needed after some snow storms, but if it is then most people probably shouldn't be driving anyways. Those who do are professionals who need trucks for their jobs.
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A base RWD is certain, but adding electric FWD is such a no-brainer, that its hard to believe this won't happen.... and no, its not about performance in the snow... its about getting 500+HP to the ground, and EVERY supercar needs to make the front tires do their share.
Traditional mechanical 4WD is (IMHO) too inefficient, and heavy, but driving the front wheels with electric motors that can cut in and out in milliseconds, and deliver instantaneous torque, as well as use energy recovery, and save fuel in traffic... gees... plus once the 48V electrical buss is in the car (which it is), adding this capability is virtually "bolt-in."
I see no downside here.
Bingo. Those who fear electric cars can avoid the AWD C8. Those who embrace technology and change can go for broke...if they're wealthy enough to buy the AWD version!Originally Posted by jcp911s
FIrst, Hybrid technology makes too much sense to ignore... from cheap-*** mom-mobiles to super-cars, the concept is simply too efficient to ignore.A base RWD is certain, but adding electric FWD is such a no-brainer, that its hard to believe this won't happen.... and no, its not about performance in the snow... its about getting 500+HP to the ground, and EVERY supercar needs to make the front tires do their share.
Traditional mechanical 4WD is (IMHO) too inefficient, and heavy, but driving the front wheels with electric motors that can cut in and out in milliseconds, and deliver instantaneous torque, as well as use energy recovery, and save fuel in traffic... gees... plus once the 48V electrical buss is in the car (which it is), adding this capability is virtually "bolt-in."
I see no downside here.
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Just shows what an "obsolete" front engine sports car can do with RWD and no electric motors driving the front wheels.
Who said RWD is "obsolete"? Yes, a full race FE/RWD car can be very fast. However, when rules permit, virtually every single successful race car since early 60's had a mid-rear engine design... not a coincidence.Originally Posted by JoesC5
The Mercedes AMG GT R Pro did the Ring in 7:04 and it's a front engine/torque tube/7 speed DCT transaxle, with coilovers instead of leaf springs, and RWD, and only 577 HP out of it's 4.0L Hot V twin turbo V8. Just wait until they release the Black Series.Just shows what an "obsolete" front engine sports car can do with RWD and no electric motors driving the front wheels.
Point is that virtually all manufacturers of high/super-high performance cars (including AMG) offer AWD either standard or as an option, and the ME/Hybrid configuration is a proven commodity. You do know that the Porsche 919 had overall wins at LeMans in 2015 and 2017.
Personally, should I buy a C8, I would stick to the RWD version as that suits my needs better, but once you start pushing 700+ HP, and a $100+K price-point, AWD makes alot of sense.
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Just when I thought you were done stalking me.Originally Posted by Dr. ice
Nice bed side manners Doc��. I can see that wasn’t your strong suit. The “God” mentality burns strong even after retirement apparently!
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Chill on the aggressive behavior and you will have more playground friends! LOL. Originally Posted by punky
Just when I thought you were done stalking me.
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Clearly you are still stalking me, pretty weird Dude.Originally Posted by Dr. ice
Chill on the aggressive behavior and you will have more playground friends! LOL.
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You gave no claim as to what basis they are failures. The best modificaiton I ever did to any of my cars I have owned was removing the AWD system from my Gallardo. The car is so much more fun to drive, rides better and no longer understeers. Sure now it gets stuck in my driveway in the snow but dam it hasn't even snowed here in 3-4 years so I am not missing much.
Same with my 911 turbo, it had mid 500hp rwd, pulled everything out and put in a 997 cup car LSD. It felt much more nimble and was definitely faster around the track! Did you buy your stubs from Nick? Originally Posted by rgregory
Exactly. When 720S's are running the 1/4 mile in under 10 seconds there is no need for AWD.You gave no claim as to what basis they are failures. The best modificaiton I ever did to any of my cars I have owned was removing the AWD system from my Gallardo. The car is so much more fun to drive, rides better and no longer understeers. Sure now it gets stuck in my driveway in the snow but dam it hasn't even snowed here in 3-4 years so I am not missing much.
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It has to do with efficiency, and physics, and technology. BTW, your HVAC system runs on electricity, and your car has had a battery since 1918. F! cars use this technology.
Your clams that this is too expensive, too heavy, and had higher maintenance costs are rubbish.
Throw out your steam-powered computer, and go back to your slide rule, because transisters and ICs are simply too costly, and too high maintenance to build a computer.
thr only reason hybrid tech will make it into the Corvette (and other cars) is CAFE. aka gov regulations. there is almost no one who disputes this Originally Posted by jcp911s
This has nothing to do with government regulations, Area 51 or the Tri-lateral commission.It has to do with efficiency, and physics, and technology. BTW, your HVAC system runs on electricity, and your car has had a battery since 1918. F! cars use this technology.
Your clams that this is too expensive, too heavy, and had higher maintenance costs are rubbish.
Throw out your steam-powered computer, and go back to your slide rule, because transisters and ICs are simply too costly, and too high maintenance to build a computer.
Bill Dearborn
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The problem is AWD doesn't help the car get around corners. Revisit the circle of friction diagrams to see how tire cornering grip changes with the weight on the wheels, the combination of turning/braking forces or the combination of turning/acceleration forces. As soon as you start adding acceleration forces into the front wheel equation the amount of grip available to get around a corner drops and the vehicle starts to under steer. Mostly AWD has the bad handling habits of both front and rear wheel drive with only one good habit which is to accelerate in as straight line. Originally Posted by Garret
Yep, all failures IMO...thanks for pointing out the additional cars that fail due to no AWD...You only think it's ridiculous because you don't agree, I'm ok with that.
Bill
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Bill
Thats where torque vectoring AWD comes into play. Make it variable enough to shift 90% or more of the torque to the rear axle when that is what will be best(like when turning). When the steering angle lessens and the driver starts to floor the gas, let it send power to the front again for maximum traction. Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
The problem is AWD doesn't help the car get around corners. Revisit the circle of friction diagrams to see how tire cornering grip changes with the weight on the wheels, the combination of turning/braking forces or the combination of turning/acceleration forces. As soon as you start adding acceleration forces into the front wheel equation the amount of grip available to get around a corner drops and the vehicle starts to under steer. Mostly AWD has the bad handling habits of both front and rear wheel drive with only one good habit which is to accelerate in as straight line.Bill
Modern AWD systems can be pretty amazing. They aren’t the old dumb systems everyone seems to think of.













