NY C8 appearance wise for GM Sales?
04-13-2019, 04:06 PM
#21
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
if you have money, spend it even when you don't actually have to if you were to do things a different way instead. Got it 
Is that motto what led them to the first BK, or...?
Is that motto what led them to the first BK, or...?
Last edited by Mikec7z; 04-13-2019 at 07:45 PM.
04-13-2019, 04:52 PM
#22
Every new model its the same story...out going model will get discounted and new model will sale for MSRP or higher to those who cant wait....
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Red67John (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 05:04 PM
#23
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But it isn't GM's problem. Those cars are all sold in GM's eyes. GM does not need to do rebates. The dealers can take the hit. When dealers order cars like that, it's like an investment into the stock market. They could either make a lot of money on the car, or have to discount it and lose money.
For GM that mean’s expensive layoffs, plant running inefficiently, unhappy dealers (if like some suggest they don’t tell dealers about starting new model build dates, etc.).
There are a number of ways GM offers incentives (for their own benefit) like giving the dealer specific incentive rebates they can put on specific cars in inventory, purchaser loyalty rebates, reduced financing costs, etc. They use these to keep the factory operating at a “profitable” level if they can.
Last edited by JerryU; 04-13-2019 at 05:07 PM.
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Mikec7z (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 06:12 PM
#24
Race Director
i hear you guys, but i think the better way was to create hype by having Tadge say something like this:
"We would like to announce there will be a c8 corvette. This car is going to be by far the most advanced GM vehicle ever made. The mechanical nature of the vehicle is functioning flawlessly. We are still doing further testing on its electronics. While I can't get into details at this time for obvious reasons, just know that this car will be worth the wait. These electronics will be used across the GM lineup. We could have waited to release these new electronics in the second or third year of the c8, but we wanted to do it right for the first year buyers, and do it right the first time. It is not the c8 that is the issue, it is these electronic systems, but we know what needs to be solved and are getting very close.
In the meantime, it appears the c7 is still ahead of our competitors in value. We are releasing a c7 limited edition (just stickers, whatever) and we want to also make it known now ahead of time, that the LAST c7 will be produced before the end of this calendar year, and that c7 will be auctioned for wounded warrior (or whatever charity it is). Rest assured, we are eager to bring these cars to showrooms, as soon as it is ready we will be revealing the c8"
Then you play it by ear.. if people order c7's through august, you produce them through august. You fulfill the demand, and then you call it quits. This includes zr1 and zo6 etc... and a lot of people who want to have the most collectable FE vettes ever, would have traded up... even zr1 owners, would have swapped.
And then put the sticker on the c8 camo cars 2 weeks before 7/18/19... or later if the bugs arent fixed as hoped.
A lot of people would have bought c7's between now and the beginning of July... both dealer stock and factory order.
Here is an article, pay close attention to the 7,500 dollar figure, this is "final payout" on a ram truck. on a z06, its well over 8 grand.
https://www.autonews.com/sales/behin...ut-dealers-buy
I just see total mismanagement by GM's executives on this whole deal. I think they acted out of fear instead of confidence in NY.
Ultimately 25 million or 32 million, that is money that we the consumer pay later on future car prices and parts prices, or else GM files BK again. Its just how businesses work. We are the ones who are hurt, or GM files BK as they run in the red, only 2 real options.
"We would like to announce there will be a c8 corvette. This car is going to be by far the most advanced GM vehicle ever made. The mechanical nature of the vehicle is functioning flawlessly. We are still doing further testing on its electronics. While I can't get into details at this time for obvious reasons, just know that this car will be worth the wait. These electronics will be used across the GM lineup. We could have waited to release these new electronics in the second or third year of the c8, but we wanted to do it right for the first year buyers, and do it right the first time. It is not the c8 that is the issue, it is these electronic systems, but we know what needs to be solved and are getting very close.
In the meantime, it appears the c7 is still ahead of our competitors in value. We are releasing a c7 limited edition (just stickers, whatever) and we want to also make it known now ahead of time, that the LAST c7 will be produced before the end of this calendar year, and that c7 will be auctioned for wounded warrior (or whatever charity it is). Rest assured, we are eager to bring these cars to showrooms, as soon as it is ready we will be revealing the c8"
Then you play it by ear.. if people order c7's through august, you produce them through august. You fulfill the demand, and then you call it quits. This includes zr1 and zo6 etc... and a lot of people who want to have the most collectable FE vettes ever, would have traded up... even zr1 owners, would have swapped.
And then put the sticker on the c8 camo cars 2 weeks before 7/18/19... or later if the bugs arent fixed as hoped.
A lot of people would have bought c7's between now and the beginning of July... both dealer stock and factory order.
Here is an article, pay close attention to the 7,500 dollar figure, this is "final payout" on a ram truck. on a z06, its well over 8 grand.
https://www.autonews.com/sales/behin...ut-dealers-buy
I just see total mismanagement by GM's executives on this whole deal. I think they acted out of fear instead of confidence in NY.
Ultimately 25 million or 32 million, that is money that we the consumer pay later on future car prices and parts prices, or else GM files BK again. Its just how businesses work. We are the ones who are hurt, or GM files BK as they run in the red, only 2 real options.
04-13-2019, 06:37 PM
#25
But it isn't GM's problem. Those cars are all sold in GM's eyes. GM does not need to do rebates. The dealers can take the hit. When dealers order cars like that, it's like an investment into the stock market. They could either make a lot of money on the car, or have to discount it and lose money.
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Zora_Vette (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 06:38 PM
#26
04-13-2019, 06:44 PM
#27
And I think this is why they explicitly said the c7 will end thus ending the conversion about two curves being produced. This will force those that want a front engine to go get one
04-13-2019, 07:32 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
factory does not make a penny when a dealer sells a car for any dollar amount above invoice. So all those theories about recouping money for selling at full sticker or above... are out
Factory is paid invoice minus holdback for cars, by their dealers. That's it. Every rebate dollar issued or incentivized rate is more money lost by the factory.
I'm not looking at the dealers cash flow and inventory... they will be fine because GM has to pay the rebates/final payout on all the cars...
I'm looking at it from GM's cash flow and what they are going to have to pay out to get the c7's to move or pay "final payout" on those cars.
25 to 32 million is a very fair/modest guess at this point... could be even more.
I think GM should have taken some lessons from Apple. People buy what they think will be the best for a while, and then less than 3 months later, there is something better.
The C7 is still GM's star product for the next 3 months, some stickers on final edition orders for the next 3 months would have made GM a lot of money, and dealers would have loaded up even without customer orders, for the gaining of extra c8 allocation purposes.
You have to realize, some dealers and public wanted to wait until last possible second to buy/order c7's in some cases, and did not know if a 2020 was coming... so they held out.
GM essentially just turned all of those buyers, into "well, since there is nothing special for FE, no limited edition, maybe i should just buy the c8 instead?"
GM should have ran the 2020 for 3 months, and those final payouts would not be due for 2 years from today since 2020 models. A lot of dealers would have stocked up on those if it meant extra c8 allocations.
GM has a lot of c7 customers they did not realize they had... they shot themselves in the foot the way they did this.
Officially Announcing the end of the c7 and focusing on the c7, and not even mentioning the c8, would have eluded to what was coming on the c8.
GM played from fear on this one... Tadge did not want to be embarrassed at NY auto show with the press saying GM is late again, and the proof is in the pudding... HE is driving the car around new york with his face lit up, and a fake paparazzi following him around, which is just GM controlling the photos being released..
its an ego decision... not a logical business decision.
MB is not all there i dont think. They played from fear and ego. No admirable logic on this one.
Factory is paid invoice minus holdback for cars, by their dealers. That's it. Every rebate dollar issued or incentivized rate is more money lost by the factory.
I'm not looking at the dealers cash flow and inventory... they will be fine because GM has to pay the rebates/final payout on all the cars...
I'm looking at it from GM's cash flow and what they are going to have to pay out to get the c7's to move or pay "final payout" on those cars.
25 to 32 million is a very fair/modest guess at this point... could be even more.
I think GM should have taken some lessons from Apple. People buy what they think will be the best for a while, and then less than 3 months later, there is something better.
The C7 is still GM's star product for the next 3 months, some stickers on final edition orders for the next 3 months would have made GM a lot of money, and dealers would have loaded up even without customer orders, for the gaining of extra c8 allocation purposes.
You have to realize, some dealers and public wanted to wait until last possible second to buy/order c7's in some cases, and did not know if a 2020 was coming... so they held out.
GM essentially just turned all of those buyers, into "well, since there is nothing special for FE, no limited edition, maybe i should just buy the c8 instead?"
GM should have ran the 2020 for 3 months, and those final payouts would not be due for 2 years from today since 2020 models. A lot of dealers would have stocked up on those if it meant extra c8 allocations.
GM has a lot of c7 customers they did not realize they had... they shot themselves in the foot the way they did this.
Officially Announcing the end of the c7 and focusing on the c7, and not even mentioning the c8, would have eluded to what was coming on the c8.
GM played from fear on this one... Tadge did not want to be embarrassed at NY auto show with the press saying GM is late again, and the proof is in the pudding... HE is driving the car around new york with his face lit up, and a fake paparazzi following him around, which is just GM controlling the photos being released..
its an ego decision... not a logical business decision.
MB is not all there i dont think. They played from fear and ego. No admirable logic on this one.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 04-13-2019 at 08:23 PM.
04-13-2019, 07:50 PM
#29
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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...
Im not looking at the dealers cash flow and inventory...
im looking at it from GM's cash flow and what they are going to have to pay out to get the c7's to move or pay "final payout" on those cars.
25 to 32 million is a very fair guess at this point... could be even more.
I think GM should have taken some lessons from Apple. C7 is still GM's star product for the next 3 months, some stickers on final edition orders for the next 3 months would have made GM a lot of money, and dealers would have loaded up even without customer orders, for the gaining of extra c8 allocation purposes.
Im not looking at the dealers cash flow and inventory...
im looking at it from GM's cash flow and what they are going to have to pay out to get the c7's to move or pay "final payout" on those cars.
25 to 32 million is a very fair guess at this point... could be even more.
I think GM should have taken some lessons from Apple. C7 is still GM's star product for the next 3 months, some stickers on final edition orders for the next 3 months would have made GM a lot of money, and dealers would have loaded up even without customer orders, for the gaining of extra c8 allocation purposes.
I dealt with distributors most of my career. Developed programs to “keep them happy.” Got lots of flack and withholding of orders when we sold “Direct” to a large fabricator in “their area.” GM sells only through distribution. Canceling one because they’re selling far more of a competitive brand than yours and signing another in “their area” is not easy. In fact in automotive in most states virtually impossible!
(Note: In my current part time business, selling only patented products, I sell directly to users. If a distributor wants to buy they get the same price as a fabricator. Some will do that with minimum mark-up to protect their very profitable industrial gas and cylinder rental business with that fabricator!)
Last edited by JerryU; 04-13-2019 at 10:31 PM.
04-13-2019, 07:53 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
i edited my above post, perhaps it will make better sense what i was saying
If GM had a booth at the NY autoshow, it could have had the final edition c7 and a date of "THE LAST C7 PRODUCED"... and that car could have been as late as September.
People run out and buy those cars, all pure profit for GM, GM takes factory down, and reorganizes for c8, and one c7 line is left running.
GM reveals the c8 in july or august.
Thats just business 101. They lost a lot of money doing it they way they did instead.
If GM had a booth at the NY autoshow, it could have had the final edition c7 and a date of "THE LAST C7 PRODUCED"... and that car could have been as late as September.
People run out and buy those cars, all pure profit for GM, GM takes factory down, and reorganizes for c8, and one c7 line is left running.
GM reveals the c8 in july or august.
Thats just business 101. They lost a lot of money doing it they way they did instead.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 04-13-2019 at 08:01 PM.
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JerryU (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 08:21 PM
#31
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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i edited my above post, perhaps it will make better sense what i was saying
If GM had a booth at the NY autoshow, it could have had the final edition c7 and a date of "THE LAST C7 PRODUCED"... and that car could have been as late as September.
People run out and buy those cars, all pure profit for GM, GM takes factory down, and reorganizes for c8, and one c7 line is left running.
GM reveals the c8 in july or august.
Thats just business 101. They lost a lot of money doing it they way they did instead.
If GM had a booth at the NY autoshow, it could have had the final edition c7 and a date of "THE LAST C7 PRODUCED"... and that car could have been as late as September.
People run out and buy those cars, all pure profit for GM, GM takes factory down, and reorganizes for c8, and one c7 line is left running.
GM reveals the c8 in july or august.
Thats just business 101. They lost a lot of money doing it they way they did instead.
I’m sure the big Vette dealers have “inside knowledge” and know the GM timing, estimate their sales of C7’s and control inventory accordingly. From a purchaser perspective not sure what percentage of buyers follow the day to day issues with C7/C8 availability. Bet Kerbeck and other large Vette dealers have a good handle about their various customer market segment buying influences.
When I bought my GS early in 2017 from Kerbeck watched their inventory levels and discounts. As time got closer to the long planned shut down their inventory stayed high but discounts reduced. When the shut down was a bit longer than announced their inventory decreased dramatically as did the discounts!
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Mikec7z (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 08:24 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
yep, i remember that.
I guess my point is...
a 2019 vette is anything but rare or collectable...
relative to a 3 or 4 month run of a 2020 with "final edition" logos. Could have called it "The FE Edition"...
final edition of the Front Engine.
Little play on words.
People would have gobbled them up like hotcakes. Those would all sell before the remaining 18's and 19's would, and GM would have had little to no rebate money on those cars, and people would have paid it because of the scarcity.
I would have been a buyer of a 2020 c7... and probably held that car for a long time.
I guess my point is...
a 2019 vette is anything but rare or collectable...
relative to a 3 or 4 month run of a 2020 with "final edition" logos. Could have called it "The FE Edition"...
final edition of the Front Engine.
Little play on words.
People would have gobbled them up like hotcakes. Those would all sell before the remaining 18's and 19's would, and GM would have had little to no rebate money on those cars, and people would have paid it because of the scarcity.
I would have been a buyer of a 2020 c7... and probably held that car for a long time.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 04-13-2019 at 08:46 PM.
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Easy Rhino (04-14-2019)
04-13-2019, 10:04 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
numbers are numbers. They don't lie. And im one less buyer based on how GM handled it, and I personally know 3 others who would have pulled the trigger on 2020 model year c7z06 and zr1's who are going to wait now for the c8 reveal instead.
I have not encountered 1 person who has said "great, the c8 reveal is in 3 months?! This changes my mind!, Im going to rush out and buy a mass produced 2019 c7 now, instead of wait until AT LEAST AFTER the C8 reveal to then decide if I am buying a c7 or c8".
GM's sales are going to come to a screeching halt on c7 for the next 3 months... people will back out of ordered cars.
Tadge will blame the FE, and most of you will nod and agree.
You and he don't seem to get it, you guys blame everything other than your lack of common sense for good retail marketing and business.
I have no reason to lie to you. 3 people that I know plus myself were all buyers on 2020 c7s... and we knew there would not be strong incentives on them, relative to the 18' and 19's, but we would have happily paid extra for the 2020 FE.
None of us will buy a c7 before the c8 reveal, and at that point, many of us will wait for the c8 since we already waited that long.
GM could have sold us ANOTHER c7, plus then a c8. Instead, GM is only going to sell us a C8, and if GM DOES sell us a c7, rest assured GM will be losing AT LEAST 10 grand of profit to sell it to us, since that is what the incentives on 2018 and 2019 are relative to the 0 incentive GM could have ran on the 2020's, and we would have bought the 2020's with no rebates. 18's, its closer to 15 grand out of GM's pocket. And since we will not buy between now and july 18, the final payout on 2018's will have already taken place from GM to the dealers, so they will be paid 15 grand on z06, cash money, out of GM's bank account, into the dealers bank account.
Facts are facts and numbers are real. GM just lost a lot of buyers. 4 people on z06 and zr1 is 400,000 dollars. Meanwhile there are hundreds, if not thousands of others across this country who also think the same as we do.
A lot of people own one vette of every generation. What better c7 to own then the last FE car ever produced that says "limited edition" somewhere on the car?
This is not rocket science guys... but keep pretending it is, and keep arguing.
I just see a bunch of Tadge clones who have such hate for a FE vette, and don't want to make the buyers and lovers of FE vettes happy... and you guys are so hell bent to prove this that you are all right, that you, Tadge, MB are all happy to see GM forgo TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars of profits and GM forgo happy customers eager to buy a limited edition 2020 c7.... just to change the VERBAL CONVERSATION for the next 3 months to the C8, which wont be produced until December regardless how you cut it. You guys gained nothing. Talking about a car gains GM zero money and gains me no new car. Congrats on your amazing master plans coming to fruition.
Remind me never to start a business with any of you who don't see how simple this is.
You refuse to look at the real numbers, and you and MB and Tadge blame everything but your own inability to reason and realize, I am not lying, i was a buyer of a c7 2020... now I'm not... because they are too dumb to put the year on the car by changing the VIN number 1 digit... and also bumping back their "final payout" deadlines to their dealers by over a year on the last 4 months of c7 production.
No logical person is buying a 2019 or 2018 c7 before the reveal. They will wait until after, when incentives will become strong as death... and also on the slim chance the c7 FE does continue (since GM was too dumb to create a final edition now)
It would have cost GM nothing to name the April-July c7 as 2020 model year and put a sticker on the cars and a dash badge... and it would have made them a fortune relative to what they are going to make now instead after they handled it like this.
i see a lot of stupidity. A lot. Keep echoing it.
I have not encountered 1 person who has said "great, the c8 reveal is in 3 months?! This changes my mind!, Im going to rush out and buy a mass produced 2019 c7 now, instead of wait until AT LEAST AFTER the C8 reveal to then decide if I am buying a c7 or c8".
GM's sales are going to come to a screeching halt on c7 for the next 3 months... people will back out of ordered cars.
Tadge will blame the FE, and most of you will nod and agree.
You and he don't seem to get it, you guys blame everything other than your lack of common sense for good retail marketing and business.
I have no reason to lie to you. 3 people that I know plus myself were all buyers on 2020 c7s... and we knew there would not be strong incentives on them, relative to the 18' and 19's, but we would have happily paid extra for the 2020 FE.
None of us will buy a c7 before the c8 reveal, and at that point, many of us will wait for the c8 since we already waited that long.
GM could have sold us ANOTHER c7, plus then a c8. Instead, GM is only going to sell us a C8, and if GM DOES sell us a c7, rest assured GM will be losing AT LEAST 10 grand of profit to sell it to us, since that is what the incentives on 2018 and 2019 are relative to the 0 incentive GM could have ran on the 2020's, and we would have bought the 2020's with no rebates. 18's, its closer to 15 grand out of GM's pocket. And since we will not buy between now and july 18, the final payout on 2018's will have already taken place from GM to the dealers, so they will be paid 15 grand on z06, cash money, out of GM's bank account, into the dealers bank account.
Facts are facts and numbers are real. GM just lost a lot of buyers. 4 people on z06 and zr1 is 400,000 dollars. Meanwhile there are hundreds, if not thousands of others across this country who also think the same as we do.
A lot of people own one vette of every generation. What better c7 to own then the last FE car ever produced that says "limited edition" somewhere on the car?
This is not rocket science guys... but keep pretending it is, and keep arguing.
I just see a bunch of Tadge clones who have such hate for a FE vette, and don't want to make the buyers and lovers of FE vettes happy... and you guys are so hell bent to prove this that you are all right, that you, Tadge, MB are all happy to see GM forgo TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars of profits and GM forgo happy customers eager to buy a limited edition 2020 c7.... just to change the VERBAL CONVERSATION for the next 3 months to the C8, which wont be produced until December regardless how you cut it. You guys gained nothing. Talking about a car gains GM zero money and gains me no new car. Congrats on your amazing master plans coming to fruition.
Remind me never to start a business with any of you who don't see how simple this is.
You refuse to look at the real numbers, and you and MB and Tadge blame everything but your own inability to reason and realize, I am not lying, i was a buyer of a c7 2020... now I'm not... because they are too dumb to put the year on the car by changing the VIN number 1 digit... and also bumping back their "final payout" deadlines to their dealers by over a year on the last 4 months of c7 production.
No logical person is buying a 2019 or 2018 c7 before the reveal. They will wait until after, when incentives will become strong as death... and also on the slim chance the c7 FE does continue (since GM was too dumb to create a final edition now)
It would have cost GM nothing to name the April-July c7 as 2020 model year and put a sticker on the cars and a dash badge... and it would have made them a fortune relative to what they are going to make now instead after they handled it like this.
i see a lot of stupidity. A lot. Keep echoing it.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 04-13-2019 at 11:02 PM.
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ojm (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 10:32 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
When can we expect a Car and Driver type review of the C8 guess wise? I'm one of those likely buyers on the fence, just too close to a new model change. Not rich but can afford one nice toy sooooon. With the problems of the automatic will need to learn the manual if buy C7.. I'm in a one horse town only one GM dealer with mostly trucks on lot.
Not seen one vette on lot for a year, but was a nice 60's classic, I just saw it on a tow truck. Talked to the driver he mentioned sold three times since. Last price 129k Canadian.
Not seen one vette on lot for a year, but was a nice 60's classic, I just saw it on a tow truck. Talked to the driver he mentioned sold three times since. Last price 129k Canadian.
Last edited by ojm; 04-13-2019 at 10:33 PM.
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Mikec7z (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 10:34 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
i have a 2016 automatic with over 20k miles and no issues at all. You dont need a stick... and you wont overheat the car, nor will you have torque converter issues... GM has solved the TC stuff.
04-13-2019, 10:43 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
Interesting thanks, I often read on forum that the Auto had a built in flaw?
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Mikec7z (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 10:47 PM
#38
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Dont touch the paddles, they suck, delayed, let the car shift itself. in all out track mode, the auto becomes magic once a person starts pulling big G's
The TC had issues on the earlier years... but the 2019's have it solved, and any year has it solved, as long as you get the triple flush done as soon as you buy the car off the showroom new.
The fluid is the problem, not the actual TC. And for the record, i never had mine flushed. I knew i would be buying a new one soon, and have no issues with mine, so it was just drama avoided at the dealer.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 04-13-2019 at 10:57 PM.
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ojm (04-13-2019)
04-13-2019, 11:02 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
GM does not care if you buy a C7 after July or wait until next year and buy a C8 or wait until 2022 and buy a C8. Either way they get that ONE big sale from you and the results are the same.
04-13-2019, 11:03 PM
#40
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
right, but you were already in that process.
I have seen their way of handling it generate no NEW sales. People still buy or people pull out.
No one new is coming to the table.
And for the record... what are you thinking? pull out.
you say the results are the same, and you guys just refuse to see logic at all...
a 2018 c7 with 15 g in incentives from the factory... that might be GM making no profit on that car... just a net net sale.
Meanwhile, a 2020 c7 with ZERO incentive, that is a 15g profit for GM.
You guys just keep saying it doesn't matter, GM is big, whatever, blah blah blah...
and that is how companies go bankrupt. Big means big payroll, not big profits.
Big profits only happen when you are surrounded by creatures who understand its better to make a 15g profit on a car, than lose 5g on a car, and rest assured, the remaining 2018 and 19's, GM will be losing 20 grand to move them, after the reveal.
If GM offers zero percent and 12 grand in rebates, that is 20 grand out of GM's pocket... and their deals on the cars will be that deep, if not deeper. Its a mathematical certainty.
Again... why dont you save yourself 10 more grand and wait 3 months. Thank me later.
I have seen their way of handling it generate no NEW sales. People still buy or people pull out.
No one new is coming to the table.
And for the record... what are you thinking? pull out.
you say the results are the same, and you guys just refuse to see logic at all...
a 2018 c7 with 15 g in incentives from the factory... that might be GM making no profit on that car... just a net net sale.
Meanwhile, a 2020 c7 with ZERO incentive, that is a 15g profit for GM.
You guys just keep saying it doesn't matter, GM is big, whatever, blah blah blah...
and that is how companies go bankrupt. Big means big payroll, not big profits.
Big profits only happen when you are surrounded by creatures who understand its better to make a 15g profit on a car, than lose 5g on a car, and rest assured, the remaining 2018 and 19's, GM will be losing 20 grand to move them, after the reveal.
If GM offers zero percent and 12 grand in rebates, that is 20 grand out of GM's pocket... and their deals on the cars will be that deep, if not deeper. Its a mathematical certainty.
Again... why dont you save yourself 10 more grand and wait 3 months. Thank me later.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 04-13-2019 at 11:11 PM.