PCMIII

So the C8 ME will only be offered with a DCT, no manual trans or torque converter AT. GM might want to ask Ford how that is working out: Billions of $$$ of losses and litigation fees in class actions across the country is not exactly good business.

"Ford customers claim in legal filings their 2012-16 Focus and 2011-16 Fiesta sedans were built with dual-clutch transmissions prone to “shuddering, slipping, bucking, jerking, hesitation while changing gears, premature internal wear, delays in downshifting and, in some cases, sudden or delayed acceleration.”

In fact, the DCT for Ford has been a complete nightmare. https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...it/1119773001/

Good luck to all you early buyers, especially those who have experience with GM's 8-speed AT.

ShagVette

Would you be OK with a DCT if the C8 was FE instead of ME?

Foosh

Although this issue has been beaten to death on the many DCT vs. manual discussions in this forum, this is one of the few (maybe only) issues where I'm in partial agreement w/ PCM. Just because it's a DCT doesn't mean it's going to be transmission "nirvana." I think because the Porsche PDK is so universally revered, a lot of folks automatically assume the same will be true in a C8 DCT.

BMW also had a lot of trouble with their DCTs in E9X M3s, and complaints about jerkiness and other quirks have not been uncommon. Audi and BMW dropped DCT on many models and returned to ZF TC autos. Porsche has spent many years tuning and refining their DCT/PDK application.

Hopefully, the Corvette team will knock this one out of the park, but it's not a foregone conclusion that it's going to be another Porsche PDK given the history of other DCTs. It may be faster around a race track, but it may not be as smooth a street driving experience as many want.

Jeff V.

Mitsubishi DCTs (made by Getrag, same as the Ford units) are also known to have their share of problems.

Hopefully Tremec has their **** together. This is probably my biggest concern about this car.

PCMIII

All of the Fords were FE. Apparently, DCTs are not that easy to engineer. This is the worst failure by Ford that I can remember and Ford has had quite a few.

Rinaldo Catria

Keep in mind there is a reason track specific cars often use sequential shift (Xtrac or similar) transmissions over DCT for durability. DCTs are fantastic when they work properly but they are very complicated and when things go wrong it’s often a big problem. Personally I’ll suffer through not being one of the first to own the C8 while I watch what that DCT is like, among other things. But I’ve always been a late adopter.

Zaro Tundov

LOL, nice trolling attempt. Unlike the Tremec destined for the C8, the DCT used in the Focus has dry clutches to make it cheap to manufacture. Ford calibrated it with too much slip to mimic a torque converter automatic so as a result the clutches overheat, glaze over, and begin to slip. Ford bean counters have determined it's cheaper to replace clutches than it is to develop and manufacture a new and reliable transmission for the Focus.

Notably, the Getrag DCT used in the Focus is also used in a French car without issue because it's properly calibrated. Europeans aren't used to TC autos so they're ok with the more abrupt manual-style shifts of a DCT. With clutch slip minimized, the DCT doesn't overheat and there's no glazing problem.

vetteLT193

It is a matter of expectations. People bought 'automatic' transmissions that aren't automatic transmissions. They work like a manual and they drive totally differently. Porsche is included in this as well. The people that think the PDK is perfect are delusional. I think this is a major area of concern for the current Corvette market. The potential new market of younger buyers will understand the difference. Guys like my Dad's buddies at the Corvette club won't put up with it and will be sending cars back to the dealer to get fixed because the transmission is clunky the way they drive them.

DCT is the best transmission for going fast. The trade off is it is the worst transmission for going slow.

ClothSeats

The reports that I have seen about a clutch pedal/electrical actuator make me wonder if GM may be planning to use that type of setup in conjunction with at DCT. It seems that the thinking up until now involved using the DCT's internal 1-3-5-7 clutch to disconnect drive during vehicle stop. I don't see this working very well because that type of clutch is designed for a snap engagement, rather than the feathering action that is needed for a smooth start from stop. Sure, some modifications can be made to make that clutch engage smoother when starting from vehicle stop, but it may never be as smooth as a conventional clutch disc/pressure plate arrangement that is found under the bell housing. So, maybe that is what GM is planning for the C8. Conventional clutch in conjunction with DCT transmission. It should solve some of the shuddering/jerking issues at launch, but won't do anything to help smooth out shifting while changing gears once under way.

NW-99SS

Most people don't understand the concept of a DCT and expect the smoothness that a TC provides...

Edit: vettelt193 beat me to it - good post.

mre1974

VW has been using DCTs in some of their models for over a decade. I have driven the R32 Golf with their DCT and did not like it at all. I'm quite disappointed that GM in their infinite wisdom has decided to go the DCT route but I'm not surprised as it seems like most of the manufacturers are headed this direction. My personal choice is the simple tried and true manual transmission but that doesn't sound like it will be happening with the ME car. Oh well...time will tell.

PCMIII

Obviously you did not read the Free Press article. The DCT in these Fords is far worse than you say. But go ahead and buy a first year C8 ME and tell us all about your experience. Can't wait to hear all about it.

PCMIII

Good thing we don't have any traffic jams in our country because these DCTs would be a bad idea then.

The HACK

I don't think that's why track cars use single clutch sequential gearboxes. Track cars use single clutch sequential gear boxes because they're LIGHTER. One clutch vs two clutch, the weight adds up. Otherwise DCT (dual clutch) operate pretty much the same way single clutch sequentials do. It's an electro-hydraulic unit selecting gears and clutch/flywheel assembly. The ONLY complexity from using a dual clutch set-up is the extra input shaft in the gearbox, and the additional clutch. The electro-hydraulic units functions the same.

The few hundreds of seconds gained and the smoothness in shifting gained by a DCT vs. Sequential shift is negligible, compared to the POUNDS the additional inner clutch hardware and input shaft required.

DCTs aren't complicated at all. Not nearly as complicated as most A6 and A8 transmissions. They're still basically manuals with clutch, except it's got TWO clutches.

PCMIII

Sounds like DCTs were way too complicated for Ford and this problem has been going on for years with no solution.

The HACK

You mean just like GM's problem with the A8 shudders and torque converter issues?

You want a bullet proof transmission? Manuals. There's nothing to break, and if it does, you can always blame it on the operator.

PCMIII

No problems with GM's A6 that I know of. The new A10 seems to be good too.

jefnvk

Yep, DCTs are a different experience than autos. Quite different, in fact, and it isn't hard for me to understand why many OEMs prefer the ZF 8 speed for most applications over them. They do have much of the harshness of a traditional manual, to the point the first time I drove one I thought there was something wrong with it. It wasn't hard to get used to, but it is why I brought up in one of the many MT threads a while back that if you truly want to make everyone happy, you may end up with three tranny options.

ltomn

I have one of the 2019 Silverado's with an 8 speed automatic transmission. Not a worry in sight!

thill444

I think GM should have used the ZF8 IMHO. At least in the base Stingray. The shift times are on par with a DCT but you get the smoothness that DCT's struggle with. The majority of Corvette buyers will appreciate smoother shifting than a jerky DCT.