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Do you think GM reads the stupid comments here?

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Do you think GM reads the stupid comments here?

 
Old 05-14-2019, 04:16 PM
  #41  
ToddC7
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Originally Posted by AORoads View Post
"The ONLY thing GM will be concerned with is initial sales and sustained sales. Internally, of course, they'll worry about margins, factory capacity, etc"

"It's possible that members here are perfectly correct (or not) in what they are saying (i.e. sales will slump if no manual, rear-end is butt ugly, etc. and more etcs.), but that will make zero difference to the folks at GM." ToddC7

I notice the contradiction between what is in the first para of Todd's otherwise good post, and the second quoted paragraph.

IF the comments about the C8 butt, or the lack of manual trans AFFECT sales, initial or down the road, you bet GM will be concerned! And have all kinds of meetings to decide what to do. How about that Camaro front end change from bad to better?

Does GM watch CF? If you took 2 or 3 staff people who know what to look for, and merely copy/pasted the comments that are of note and worth, there'd be a pretty long compendium of useful or interesting comments to read at GM. You can argue, "staff who know what to look for" or "of note and worth" but that's like questioning, is it helpful to have a focus group which may or may not, surveys which may or may not, etc. It all depends on track record of the persons, and their knowledge and ability---proven over a period of time. And, an added "test group" could be a bunch of unknown respondents on a forum called CF who have no knowledge that they're being watched and read, a significant portion of which own Corvettes, own GM products, own other similar vehicles from competitors and speak/write intelligently about them, etc.

If I ran a company, and there was talk about my company or products on a forum, you bet I'd find "the right people" to keep their eyes on, and a list of the better, best and most-descriptive topics that affect MY company, MY product and eventually, MY profit. Or I'd hire an outside company of winners to do it for me. In today's world, whether it's a complaint or compliment, wish or want, you can't just isolate yourself to what YOU believe excluding all others. jmo
I don't see the contradiction Your 'summary' of my 2nd paragraph isn't correct... i.e. the "IF...". You'll note that you converted the meaning my 2nd paragraph to mean "IF... *affects sales*" which I did not write or imply (or hope I didn't). Comments made now do not affect sales.

What I was saying is that it's possible, as in a coincidence, that members here may say something that corresponds to some reasons why sales might go below or above expectations. But sales don't follow something because someone here said they would

And just because you ignore a forum doesn't mean that you are isolating yourself. Designers didn't just get born yesterday ... they studied art and similar for years if not decades before getting to style the next Corvette. I very highly doubt these designers are reading this forum and seeing the "omg the rear end is FUGLY" comments and care one iota about it.

Similarly, the decision to go DCT was probably almost entirely down to costs and hitting the sweet spot of performance vs. utility vs. fun. If costs were no object, of course we'd be seeing a manual, auto, DCT and a lot of other offerings. Again, they certainly aren't going to care what we write in the forums... they already know they are going to alienate a certain % of potential buyers if they don't offer a manual.

But they've probably calculated that months if not years ago...

Last edited by ToddC7; 05-14-2019 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:29 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I don't see that many comments about DCTs being bad. They can be awesome. However, I do see comments that manual lovers would prefer a true manual, as would I.
Chalk up another C8 manual transmission buyer here...
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:32 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Michael A View Post
By this logic, they should only build cars that appealed to C7 buyers of the past. I don't normally use this emoji, but it applies here.

By the way, this is public forum, so anyone can post. If someone doesn't like that, then they can start their own forum, and require a current vehicle registration certificate be submitted. Good luck!
^^^

Si, by your logic; only wishy-washy non-C7-Corvette owners, and C8-Dreamers' fantasies count....:

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Old 05-14-2019, 04:36 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by range96 View Post
GM spends a lot of money on customer surveys from new car buyers. Why would they not use the internet as a marketing tool on a car not released yet?
That's the point. They're interested in actual NEW GM CAR BUYERS....not some machinations from the confirmed non-Corvette owners.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:44 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by MitchAlsup View Post
It is so difficult to know if the comment is stupid before you read it.
Smartest comment I've seen on here in a long time. Well done.

-Tyler
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:46 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Tool Hoarder View Post
I would listen to anything boobslayer69 has to say.
Me too!

Anyone with that Internet handle, must know what they're talking about! !
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:55 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by ToddC7 View Post

Similarly, the decision to go DCT was probably almost entirely down to costs and hitting the sweet spot of performance vs. utility vs. fun. If costs were no object, of course we'd be seeing a manual, auto, DCT and a lot of other offerings. Again, they certainly aren't going to care what we write in the forums... they already know they are going to alienate a certain % of potential buyers if they don't offer a manual.
I've always suspected that GM's decision to not offer a manual in the C8 may have been made for them, and that it boils down to cost or availability or both. If you want to employ a high torque V8 engine, then your manual choices are limited. The ZF Porsche manual transaxles can't handle more than 400 ft. lbs of torque. Tremecs can, and have always been used in high TQ V8, manual FEs , but they don't have a manual transaxle version.

It's probable that GM could not make a financial case good enough to entice either Tremec or ZF into developing a transaxle capable of handling 500+ ft lbs of torque reliably.

Last edited by Foosh; 05-14-2019 at 06:19 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:57 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
It's probable that GM could not make a financial case good enough to entice either Tremec or ZF into developing a transaxle capable of handling 500+ ft lbs of torque reliably.
Now that's a really good point... well done. I had completely forgotten that the C5/6/7 rear mounted transmission is not the same as the pending transaxle. In the transaxle do the trans and rear gear share the same fluid?

Makes complete sense that there is no profitable business case for a high power manual transaxle given the current take rates we've all discussed.

Last edited by Tool Hoarder; 05-14-2019 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:10 PM
  #49  
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no, they only read the smart ones
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:25 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I've always suspected that GM's decision to not offer a manual in the C8 may have been made for them, and that it boils down to cost or availability or both. If you want to employ a high torque V8 engine, then your manual choices are limited. The ZF Porsche manual transaxles can't handle more than 400 ft. lbs or torque. Tremecs can, and have always been used in high TQ V8, manual FEs , but they don't have a manual transaxle version.

It's probable that GM could not make a financial case good enough to entice either Tremec or ZF into developing a transaxle capable of handling 500+ ft lbs of torque reliably.
That truly would be a shame as to why a manual may not be offered....
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:10 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
^^^

Si, by your logic; only wishy-washy non-C7-Corvette owners, and C8-Dreamers' fantasies count....:
By your logic, anyone with keys to a C7 is smarter than someone with multiple engineering degrees and multiple years of automotive engineering experience.

Maybe you can break it down even further. If you don't have a Z06, then you can't comment on Z06s. If you don't have a ZR1, you can comment about ZR1s. If you don't have a Z51, you can't comment on Z51s. If you don't have the base car, you can't comment on base cars. If you don't have a 1LT, then you can't commend about 1LT. Where does this insanity end exactly?

Last I checked, there is no exam qualifying anyone to purchase a Corvette, and the only prerequisites are a driver's license and a pile of money. Owning a car means nothing about the level of knowledge of the car. Zip.

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Old 05-14-2019, 06:24 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Tool Hoarder View Post
Now that's a really good point... well done. I had completely forgotten that the C5/6/7 rear mounted transmission is not the same as the pending transaxle. In the transaxle do the trans and rear gear share the same fluid?

Makes complete sense that there is no profitable business case for a high power manual transaxle given the current take rates we've all discussed.
Yes, in a transaxle the diff and trans are integrated, presumably sharing the same fluids.

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Old 05-14-2019, 06:33 PM
  #53  
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If they are doing their job....NO!

If yes......YOUR FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:35 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
A good many of those posting don't own a C7 Corvette. Still more, will never buy a new C8, much less a used one in the next 6-year C-cycle. I look at it this way; if you don't own at least a C7, your comments are not
worth any consideration by GM. It's just unsubstantiated noise, by non-C7 car owners, with no skin in the game with no record of recent Corvette C7 ownership. A lot of talk, no substance.....
Disagree. They are interested in why people did NOT buy the car. Especially when they see those people going to competitors products at similar (or even higher) price points.

Otherwise, why bother going ME at all?
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:47 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by vndkshn View Post
Disagree. They are interested in why people did NOT buy the car. Especially when they see those people going to competitors products at similar (or even higher) price points.

Otherwise, why bother going ME at all?
Agree, any smart company wants to hear opinions about why the product is either liked or disliked and what people want. The majority of customers for any product aren't rocket scientists or engineers and make buying decisions for a veritable plethora of both rational and irrational reasons.

Anyone participating in a car forum is more interested in things automotive than the public at large, thus they are opinions that should be heard by a car company even if not terribly well thought out.

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Old 05-14-2019, 07:19 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by vndkshn View Post
Disagree. They are interested in why people did NOT buy the car. Especially when they see those people going to competitors products at similar (or even higher) price points.

Otherwise, why bother going ME at all?
Disagree. I think they already know why a large number of people are not buying their new Corvettes. They cannot pay for them. Noisemakers don't buy cars. If they cannot afford a new entry level supercar, i.e. C7, what makes you think they can afford a C8??

Sorry, but people that can't afford your product, aren't much use to GM...
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:15 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Michael A View Post
By your logic, anyone with keys to a C7 is smarter than someone with multiple engineering degrees and multiple years of automotive engineering experience.

Maybe you can break it down even further. If you don't have a Z06, then you can't comment on Z06s. If you don't have a ZR1, you can comment about ZR1s. If you don't have a Z51, you can't comment on Z51s. If you don't have the base car, you can't comment on base cars. If you don't have a 1LT, then you can't commend about 1LT. Where does this insanity end exactly?

Last I checked, there is no exam qualifying anyone to purchase a Corvette, and the only prerequisites are a driver's license and a pile of money. Owning a car means nothing about the level of knowledge of the car. Zip.
Wouldn't you be more knowledgable about something you actually use? Owners spend a lot more time with their cars than the engineers. Owning a particular car gives you more experience with it. I prefer mechanics who work on Corvettes most of the time instead of Impalas and Silverados regardless how good they are when I visit the service department, don't you?

Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I've always suspected that GM's decision to not offer a manual in the C8 may have been made for them, and that it boils down to cost or availability or both. If you want to employ a high torque V8 engine, then your manual choices are limited. The ZF Porsche manual transaxles can't handle more than 400 ft. lbs of torque. Tremecs can, and have always been used in high TQ V8, manual FEs , but they don't have a manual transaxle version.

It's probable that GM could not make a financial case good enough to entice either Tremec or ZF into developing a transaxle capable of handling 500+ ft lbs of torque reliably.
And this is the reason I decided to buy a ZR1 for now. Love that high, instant torque!

Originally Posted by vndkshn View Post
Disagree. They are interested in why people did NOT buy the car. Especially when they see those people going to competitors products at similar (or even higher) price points.

Otherwise, why bother going ME at all?
Disagree. Manufacturers examine what is being liked and disliked by people who actually purchase their product. It is not easy to guess who might want to buy your product. It is easier to find out why people bought your product. Focus your interest on people who actually have interest in your product.

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Disagree. I think they already know why a large number of people are not buying their new Corvettes. They cannot pay for them. Noisemakers don't buy cars. If they cannot afford a new entry level supercar, i.e. C7, what makes you think they can afford a C8??

Sorry, but people that can't afford your product, aren't much use to GM...
I agree. No matter what GM does with the C8 if you can't afford it you don't buy one. If you CAN afford it it could be a million reasons why you wouldn't buy one, GM can't address all those reasons...
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:27 PM
  #58  
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10+ years ago I posted on the then active camaro forum that GM should actually have people on these forums that's sole job is to interact with members for not only complaints but to feel out ideas and they should do this NOW to get ahead of the curve. Well a decade later they do have a dedicated account and they usually just direct you off the board to a black hole but at least it's something. A shame they didn't take my free advice then, and still don't with the other thing, because I am sure they paid someone a 6 figure salary to come up with forum account idea. The problem is they have to listen to some of the absolute dumbest ideas on this board that just don't work in the real world all told by people who have no concept of running a business within a budget. (i.e. they will make both the c7 and c8 at the same time. The c8 is really a Cadillac. The c8 will start at 150K and on and on) or the "they'll lose my business if they don't make a manual with option x, y and z."

I'd love to give them more advice that actually takes in to account how a business works, but no one asked and no one will listen.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:39 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Disagree. I think they already know why a large number of people are not buying their new Corvettes. They cannot pay for them. Noisemakers don't buy cars. If they cannot afford a new entry level supercar, i.e. C7, what makes you think they can afford a C8??

Sorry, but people that can't afford your product, aren't much use to GM...
Ah, the Corvette snobbery comes out.

True stories that indicate you are wrong:

1.). When I bought my heavy duty truck, I went to all three. Chevy contacted me checking on my purchase process and I told them I selected another truck. Someone from Chevy Corp called a couple of days later asking me to provide feedback on why I selected one $75k truck over another. I spent probably 30 minutes on the phone with them. I look at the newer HD Chevy trucks and they have incorporated a lot of what I gave feedback about, so they must have heard the same feedback from others who didnít buy.

2.). When my wife wanted a new/sporty SUV, we again hit a wide range of makes and models. We did not select a GM product, got a call from the dealers (this time we heard from
Chevy, GMC, Buick, Caddy, Dodge, and BMW dealers). Later got calls from Chevy Corp, Caddy Corp, and Dodge Corp, asking why I selected one vehicle north of $50k over another.

If they only listened to people who buy, why make any changes at all? The person already bought a vehicle despite things they didnít like. The manufacturers definitely care about why money left their dealers and went to a competitor. To think otherwise is naive.

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Old 05-14-2019, 08:47 PM
  #60  
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^^^
You're 'lucky' to get the follow-up calls. I have purchased many new cars and once I no longer was in the market the other considered makers didn't care.

So, what truck and SUV did you end up buying?

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