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Over half of those sold are with the Z51 option. So, unless you think all those are being tracked (and I do not) its pretty clear that the Z51 options is wanted even when it will not be tracked.
Please explain how the electronic LSD is useful on the street/highway.
Driving straight down the road - The eLSD system
will have a bit of coupling to add stability and
on-center steering feel. This will be a relatively
small amount (around 10% - 15%) and the number
will decrease slightly when making a lane change
or other steering input.
• When applying the throttle - The system will
increase the coupling under heavy throttle. The
driver may see around 40 - 50% coupling under
heavy acceleration in a track setting. This is to
maximize rear traction while cornering, while still
maintaining the feel of how the car handles
throughout the turn.
• Extreme lane changes and slalom events - The
largest coupling will occur during the most
aggressive dynamic maneuvers. The eLSD
clutches will nearly lock (100%) to add stability at
the right moment but open back up to allow the
vehicle to steer through a double lane change at
precisely the right times.
• Winter driving - If the vehicle is being driven in the
winter (being equipped with the appropriate tires),
and the driver is attempting to accelerate from a
stop with one wheel on ice and the other on dry
pavement, he or she will notice that the clutch
torque will increase on the DIC as a result of the
single wheel slipping. This will transfer torque to
the wheel with more available traction so that the
vehicle will accelerate smoothly.
Driving straight down the road - The eLSD system
will have a bit of coupling to add stability and
on-center steering feel. This will be a relatively
small amount (around 10% - 15%) and the number
will decrease slightly when making a lane change
or other steering input.
• When applying the throttle - The system will
increase the coupling under heavy throttle. The
driver may see around 40 - 50% coupling under
heavy acceleration in a track setting. This is to
maximize rear traction while cornering, while still
maintaining the feel of how the car handles
throughout the turn.
• Extreme lane changes and slalom events - The
largest coupling will occur during the most
aggressive dynamic maneuvers. The eLSD
clutches will nearly lock (100%) to add stability at
the right moment but open back up to allow the
vehicle to steer through a double lane change at
precisely the right times.
• Winter driving - If the vehicle is being driven in the
winter (being equipped with the appropriate tires),
and the driver is attempting to accelerate from a
stop with one wheel on ice and the other on dry
pavement, he or she will notice that the clutch
torque will increase on the DIC as a result of the
Bulletin No.: 19-NA-046 November, 2023 Page 3
single wheel slipping. This will transfer torque to
the wheel with more available traction so that the
vehicle will accelerate smoothly.
If it isn't noticeable to you then OK. But some others will notice it. If it is something you wouldn't notice then it would be a waste of money for you.
For a detailed description of what it does and why I see it operating all the time when I have the dash tile set to show % slip, best read the Ask Tadge Post re eSLD. It's very long and mostly written by the GM engineer who works on the eLSD software.
This is a very short clip abstracted from the GM engineer, Jason Kolk's long forum post: “There is a lot going on behind the scenes in the software to come up with the eLSD coupling that you can watch in C8 display. A number of algorithms that are running at the same time to collectively decide how much coupling is needed for the different vehicle dynamics situations that they each monitor and control. Logic is used to decide which one of them wins out or which ones add together to deliver the final command that you see on the display and feel in the car.” “The eLSD can have subtle but profound effect on handling of the c8. It’s considered a ‘basic chassis’ component. It something that plays a big part in setting up the character of the car. Off-throttle, more eLSD coupling adds stability, but too much can be a bad thing. The eLSD is connecting the two wheels so in a turn it's trying to slow down the outside wheel and speed up the inside wheel. In other words, the eLSD clutch coupling is trying to oppose the direction that the car is turning, so setting this off-throttle level is pretty important to keeping the car feeling agile. In a steady turn this can help tune the amount of understeer the car has. In highly dynamic maneuvers, this results in something that we call yaw damping where it will reduce the rotation rate of the car. When the driver is on-throttle, the eLSD clutch can shift torque from the inside wheel to the outside wheel. This has the combined effect of minimizing or eliminating inside wheel spin, but it also controls how much it feels like the car turns with the throttle. More torque on the outside and less on the inside will help the car turn - to a point, but that's the balance we're constantly searching for while we tune the software.
You can read his and Tadge Juechter's "Ask Tadge" forum post in full in the Appendix of my Doc with a many Pic summary up front. http://netwelding.com/eLSD_VS_Posi.pdf
The Appendix also includes several Videos including one by an automotive Professor who shows what the 1960's Positraction included with the Base C8 is limited to do. The eLSD does much more. In my E-Ray it is providing in the rear what Torque Vectoring is to the front wheels when accelerating from an apex.
Yep I see the % slip change when going almost straight as I apply power etc.
That's the goal, and the beauty of modern cars with computer controlled stability enhancing features (aka nannies). If they work correctly, you do not "notice" them - they just make you think you are this great driver. Turning out from an intersection with moderate (not aggressive) throttle - I swear I can sometimes detect the car make a trajectory adjustment sometimes - sort of a little rotational kick, and I often wonder if everyone would notice that. Many would, I know, but its subtle. I don't know if that's the eLSD or just selective braking. But to compare, or notice the difference, one would have to drive one with and one without eLSD the same way over the same road under the same conditions.
I never plan on tracking, but live in AZ and felt the additional cooling and bigger brakes couldn't hurt in AZ heat. It appears a big chunk of the option $$$ comes back to you at resale as well.
My suggestion is always plan your budget and get the most you can or desire for the money. The C8 is amazing as to how it can be configured. Decide which options are drop dead and you can't do without and go from there. In my case HTC was the only real drop dead, the rest became what was in my budget.
I have owned z51 and non-z51. I decided on HTC over z51. I don't track the car and will never push it to the limits where I wish I had z-51. The plus is I don't have to replace my brake pads to minimize brake dust :-)
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
My first C8 was a 23 Stingray HTC, non-Z51 but with MagRide. That was the best riding Corvette I've ever had (I've had 13 Corvettes now, everything from C4-C8), as well as being able to do anything I asked of it on the twisty mountain roads. If you are not going to track it, I would absolutely say non-Z51 with MagRide. Put it in Tour and the ride is super comfortable (almost too soft), Sport feels more controlled but still rides great, Track was too much for anything other than the smoothest roads. Plus with the non-Z51 you get the Michelin A/S tires which extends your driving season if you live someone with a real winter, and you get brakes that don't dust like crazy. Both the tires and brakes will handle anything you throw at them on the street, I did a 2,000 mile road trip after picking it up from the Museum including running Tail of the Dragon, Moonshiner, Cherahola and many other twisty mountain roads.
I never plan on tracking, but live in AZ and felt the additional cooling and bigger brakes couldn't hurt in AZ heat. It appears a big chunk of the option $$$ comes back to you at resale as well.
My suggestion is always plan your budget and get the most you can or desire for the money. The C8 is amazing as to how it can be configured. Decide which options are drop dead and you can't do without and go from there. In my case HTC was the only real drop dead, the rest became what was in my budget.
Resale value - I haven't seen any data that supports that Z51 optioned cars depreciate %-wise any less or more than cars without it.
Last edited by RedC8Lover22; Jan 7, 2025 at 03:48 PM.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
Originally Posted by gliot1
I never plan on tracking, but live in AZ and felt the additional cooling and bigger brakes couldn't hurt in AZ heat. It appears a big chunk of the option $$$ comes back to you at resale as well...
If you live in a really hot area, I might get Z51 for the extra cooling capacity, but keep in mind GM stress tests every variant through worse conditions than most people will ever experience (their hot weather testing site is in Yuma, AZ).
Originally Posted by RedC8Lover22
Redale value - I haven't seen any data that supports that Z51 optioned cars depreciate %-wise any less or more than cars without it.
This. Extra option packages (Z51) are going to depreciate at the same rate as the car, sometimes more. You're never going to make your money back by adding options, if you're worried about resale vs loss, you're best off buying a 1LT stripper. Dealers could care less about options on trade, they are just going from a book wholesale value, and while some private party sales will want Z51, plenty of people could care less and just want the best deal.
It appears a big chunk of the option $$$ comes back to you at resale as well.
Originally Posted by EvanZR1
You're never going to make your money back by adding options, if you're worried about resale vs loss, you're best off buying a 1LT stripper. Dealers could care less about options on trade, they are just going from a book wholesale value, and while some private party sales will want Z51, plenty of people could care less and just want the best deal.
Originally Posted by RedC8Lover22
Resale value - I haven't seen any data that supports that Z51 optioned cars depreciate %-wise any less or more than cars without it.
I ran a 2022 red 2LT, 12,000 miles, good condition with Z51, no other options, and without Z51, no other options.
Looks like around $300 difference, same to same. I believe Z51 cost $6,345 in 2022.
Maybe it sells faster with Z51 since it is essentially "free" at resale?
If it came with all-seasons and non-dust brake pads, I'd have bought it but I didn't want to replace all that with winter a month away from delivery.
--
"Specifiers" order their vehicle or scour listings to find the very closest match to their ideal vehicle.
"Selectors" look at what is available and pick one. I think most used car dealers by default are "Selectors" out of necessity. I think the typical* buyer of a 2+ year old C8 is looking for a price, milage/condition, roof option and color that they like and look no further than that.
(*The next 20 people to talk about how they specified intensely for their used purpose, you are on an enthusiast forum so not typical!)
For a detailed description of what it does and why I see it operating all the time when I have the dash tile set to show % slip, best read the Ask Tadge Post re eSLD. It's very long and mostly written by the GM engineer who works on the eLSD software.
This is a very short clip abstracted from the GM engineer, Jason Kolk's long forum post: “There is a lot going on behind the scenes in the software to come up with the eLSD coupling that you can watch in C8 display. A number of algorithms that are running at the same time to collectively decide how much coupling is needed for the different vehicle dynamics situations that they each monitor and control. Logic is used to decide which one of them wins out or which ones add together to deliver the final command that you see on the display and feel in the car.” “The eLSD can have subtle but profound effect on handling of the c8. It’s considered a ‘basic chassis’ component. It something that plays a big part in setting up the character of the car. Off-throttle, more eLSD coupling adds stability, but too much can be a bad thing. The eLSD is connecting the two wheels so in a turn it's trying to slow down the outside wheel and speed up the inside wheel. In other words, the eLSD clutch coupling is trying to oppose the direction that the car is turning, so setting this off-throttle level is pretty important to keeping the car feeling agile. In a steady turn this can help tune the amount of understeer the car has. In highly dynamic maneuvers, this results in something that we call yaw damping where it will reduce the rotation rate of the car. When the driver is on-throttle, the eLSD clutch can shift torque from the inside wheel to the outside wheel. This has the combined effect of minimizing or eliminating inside wheel spin, but it also controls how much it feels like the car turns with the throttle. More torque on the outside and less on the inside will help the car turn - to a point, but that's the balance we're constantly searching for while we tune the software.
You can read his and Tadge Juechter's "Ask Tadge" forum post in full in the Appendix of my Doc with a many Pic summary up front. http://netwelding.com/eLSD_VS_Posi.pdf
The Appendix also includes several Videos including one by an automotive Professor who shows what the 1960's Positraction included with the Base C8 is limited to do. The eLSD does much more. In my E-Ray it is providing in the rear what Torque Vectoring is to the front wheels when accelerating from an apex.
Yep I see the % slip change when going almost straight as I apply power etc.
Good info here. If you want the fastest and most consistent lap times an E-LSD is going to make you faster. But like a DCT is faster than a manual you do lose something to the electronics.
I like to slide the car around and intentionally break traction. When I have done this in Z-51 equipped cars I can feel the diff trying to straighten me out when I want to try and hold the angle. When I do it in my non Z51 with the mechanical diff it just keeps both wheels spinning but isn't cutting power the same to manage traction.
The other thing for me is predictability when randomly getting near limit. The E-LSD will respond differently based on the mode you are in and how all the sensors feel about that specific slide. The mechanical diff with traction off is the same in weather or track.
I will add, no I am not in traffic drifting the car. I do autocross and at low speeds rotation is helpful unlike a sweeper at 90MPH on a full track. I also have some friends that own industrial warehouses so we have access to the back loading dock area for BBQ and burnouts, etc.
To each their own, I know the mechanical LSD is slower but can be more fun!
