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What gear equipment were you using to record this? In other words, camera, software and hardware. NOT transmission gear.
Thanks.
I'm currently using a DJI Osmo Action 5 Pro. I've used Insta360 before as well, and worked great. GoPro cameras usually start panning too much with G forces, and video becomes weird; perhaps new ones have it fixed. Whatever camera you use, you should reduce the exposure since inside of the car is dark, which prompts camera to increase exposure, but that means the outside view gets washed out. That video above was with setting EV = -1.
Good quality GPS transponder (Racebox mini s in this case).
I'm currently using a DJI Osmo Action 5 Pro. I've used Insta360 before as well, and worked great. GoPro cameras usually start panning too much with G forces, and video becomes weird; perhaps new ones have it fixed. Whatever camera you use, you should reduce the exposure since inside of the car is dark, which prompts camera to increase exposure, but that means the outside view gets washed out. That video above was with setting EV = -1.
Good quality GPS transponder (Racebox mini s in this case).
RaceChrono app on the phone to collect telemetry.
I use RaceRender to put it all together on a PC.
Thank you. I hope you don’t mind, but I’m going to quote this on a thread I started on the subject. I greatly appreciate the info.
Just watching your videos. Area 27 looks like a BLAST! Are you left foot braking?
Yes, I'm now left-foot-braking on all my cars since I switched to C8 cars to make a habit of it. I drive with my left foot on the brake, all TC and ESC turned off. I only break the habbit with manual cars, where I seem to get confused, sometimes.
Yeah, Area27 is an amazing track! It's full of technical curves, and rewards you when you figure out how to take them right. There's seemingly only 1 dangerous corner, and as long as you're aware of it, it's mostly very safe, too, as with most new tracks built in recent decades. I've been a member there as well since the last year, so I can now go there a lot more often; if I can find time from work and family : )
Just got the car's alignment refreshed today, and rear camber is now -2.4 degrees (from -2.6), and rear toe is 0.1 degrees (from 0.05). I'll see what impact these do tomorrow. I've ordered Eibach rear sway bar, but I'm still waiting for it to be delivered. I don't even have a tracking number, yet!
Yes, I'm now left-foot-braking on all my cars since I switched to C8 cars to make a habit of it. I drive with my left foot on the brake, all TC and ESC turned off. I only break the habbit with manual cars, where I seem to get confused, sometimes.
Impressive! Do you find there's that much of an advantage? This is my first "granny tranny" for a track car and I've toyed with left foot braking. I just haven't been able to get the finesse down.
Damn that is cheaper! Do they have the filters and plastic bung also?
Yes, RockAuto has all the filters, plugs, including that plastic bung (at $3.5 a piece); all in better prices that I can find anywhere else. I always sourced all my OEM filters, TPMS and even OEM brake calipers there, and they're usually hard to beat.
Originally Posted by Bobbo76
Impressive! Do you find there's that much of an advantage? This is my first "granny tranny" for a track car and I've toyed with left foot braking. I just haven't been able to get the finesse down.
It took me a while to 'slow down' my left foot for the braking job, and my passengers suffered a bit for a while on the streets during our trips, but I eventually got it.
My 2 cents: Especially when you drive with TC and stability control off, left foot braking brings an additional layer of safety. A soft touch can often bring the car back into line in many cases, and this lets you test the limits often, too, by jerking the car a little bit. Moreover, on a rear-mid engine car, trail braking becomes a crucial part to improve front bite, and if you brake with your left foot, you have a better chance in blending in your throttle and brake inputs. Unlike a Toyota, C8 will not cut your power when both are applied, at least at the track : )
Eibach rear sway bar is getting delivered tomorrow! I will be attending a track day on Sunday, so I will get to experiment with it right away, too; very exciting!
I removed the rear sway bar in preparation (since I need tobe quick tomorrow and load up the car on trailer), and removed tires as well for a quick inspection. I'm glad I did : )
The brakes
First off, without any pad flipping, looks like brakes are good for at least ~250 laps. The rears seem to have a bit more, and on the fronts, it's the right front limiting it due to uneven wear.
The last 3 sets lasted 250+ laps. My brakes were completely shot on that second one (when I replaced after 324 laps), so I presume ~300 laps is a good limit. Looks like it also means about 9 hours of track time.
Rear pads last similar (but they're 18mm instead of 24mm pads). I have not changed the rear rotors for about a year now, and they seem to be fine, despite the small micro-cracks.
The outer pads always wear down faster than inner pads, which is a good safety net; the other way around could be dangerous since it's harder to check inner pads from outside.
The backplate is about 4mm, so the meat of the pad is about 20mm (new ones are 24mm thick. Inner pad has 11 mm material left, and outer has 6 mm. So the inner is 50% gone, and outer is 70% consumed. I just flipped the sides for the Sunday event, but soon I'll replace all the pads with new ones, and when I do, I plan to flip this side every once in a while to balance it out.
.. and this is the driver's side. I was initially thinking the heat difference is causing different wear, but considering driver's side has about equal (besides a bit of tapering evident), I'm guessing the outer pistons in the passenger side are just pushing more, or the outer pads on the right side are used more for whatever reason.
Wheels and weights The APEX wheels have this 'uphill' section in the barrel, which was where I sticked the wheel weights. All the weights on all the wheels shifted away from that section of the barrel, so I presume I shouldn't stick them in there : )
I really like these Hoffmann Type 380 wheel weights, but they're very light at 5 grams each, and you neeed a lot of them when it comes to Hoosiers, sometimes.
Were you just wondering how the wheel was scratched in the previous pic? Well, take a look at the rubber smashed right under the hub; that's the culprit.
Coilovers Passenger side rear: In other news, these 12.75" wide rear wheels run closer to the coilovers, and the rear canister hoses rubbed on the wheels.
Driver side rear: There's a bit of rubbing on this side, too.
Pulled them away from the harm's way with help of a small zip tie...
How are you liking this coilover setup VS your previous MCS 2 ways? Also, any reason you don't tape your wheels weights? It would likely help with them shifting like they did.
How are you liking this coilover setup VS your previous MCS 2 ways? Also, any reason you don't tape your wheels weights? It would likely help with them shifting like they did.
See pics below. I actually DID tape some of the weights with my 300-degree-F, 2 mm thick tape (i.e. the tape doesn't get gooey itself at the track for sure), and did not tape some other weights to see if the new Hofmann Type 380 weights can indeed withstand temps and not move as advertised.
In the end, I'm actually pretty happy with Hofmann weights, and they seem to be very resistant to heat. That said, nothing I installed in that angled "uphill" area, including those that I taped were able to stay in place. All such weights, including those taped were shifted to the flat barrel section. I used the pic of the weights without the tape to illustrate it better : )
Regarding coilovers
MCS coilovers, which are developed for Z51, DID NOT work on Z06 as good as Z51. Even on Z51, I could use a bit more rear body control, but on the Z06 platform, they were definitely not providing the handling I was looking for. I've been using MCS coilovers on other platforms (e.g. BRZ, etc.) with very good results, so it was a surprise to me, too. I even tried 3 different spring setups and got the MCS kit revalved by MCS to match the stiffer springs, but when I finally had springs stiff enough to give me the control the car propoerly, it was just too stiff to allow good traction, slowing down the car..
As I'e mentioned before, I think the problem is the difference in weight distribution between Z51 and Z06. If you look at the specs, the weights are almost same, and the suspension geometry is identical, too (with wheels having a bit different offsets on wide body). That said, the LT6 engine is a much taller DOHC design, and has its center of gravity significantly higher than LT2. This means there is a significant amount of weight swinging side to side as you take corners, needing significant damping.
With my current coilovers, I am working with JJ (UpSpeed performance) to find the right amount of damping, and sky is the limit with this 4-way kit. In my recent tests, I kept increasing low speed compression to tame the rear, and it worked great, but I realized I am likely sacrificing corner exit traction, and I'm also greasing up the rear tires faster with this "too much low speed compression", so as a next step, I'm dialing back rear LSC, but will add more rear sway bar to have enough support mid-corner, yet have more traction exiting corner as well. I'm looking forward to seeing how it feels over the weekend.
It should be noted that these dynamic changes (i.e. high low speed compression dampening during sharp turns vs much less of it right when you're exiting corner with less side loads to improve corner exit traction) can be handled very nicely by dynamic shocks like the OEM (if its map can be modified or overriden with aftermarket controller like DSC) or Tractive shocks we had available for C7s, so I also wonder if we'll have such options in future, too. For now, a 4-way suspension with support from the coilover manufacturer to provide the right dampening for all its slow and high speed compression and rebound is the best way to go in my opinion. Or, you can just leave it stock including stock tires, and enjoy like that, too (but forget about using 18" tires with big sidewalls) : )
I think I'm slowly getting close to an ideal setup for me with these coilovers, and will share once I am more confident. Of course, it would be a good setup "for me", and might not be ideal for everyone else, and there is NEVER a perfect setup. Even if there was, it would be perfect for a track, and not so for another one anyway... But fear not, isn't this the fun part for the enthusiast; always seeking for a 'better' setup? After all, if I did my best lap time I can ever do with this car at day 1, the first time I go to track with it, I'd then just sell it.
See pics below. I actually DID tape some of the weights with my 300-degree-F, 2 mm thick tape (i.e. the tape doesn't get gooey itself at the track for sure), and did not tape some other weights to see if the new Hofmann Type 380 weights can indeed withstand temps and not move as advertised.
In the end, I'm actually pretty happy with Hofmann weights, and they seem to be very resistant to heat. That said, nothing I installed in that angled "uphill" area, including those that I taped were able to stay in place. All such weights, including those taped were shifted to the flat barrel section. I used the pic of the weights without the tape to illustrate it better : )
Regarding coilovers
MCS coilovers, which are developed for Z51, DID NOT work on Z06 as good as Z51. Even on Z51, I could use a bit more rear body control, but on the Z06 platform, they were definitely not providing the handling I was looking for. I've been using MCS coilovers on other platforms (e.g. BRZ, etc.) with very good results, so it was a surprise to me, too. I even tried 3 different spring setups and got the MCS kit revalved by MCS to match the stiffer springs, but when I finally had springs stiff enough to give me the control the car propoerly, it was just too stiff to allow good traction, slowing down the car..
As I'e mentioned before, I think the problem is the difference in weight distribution between Z51 and Z06. If you look at the specs, the weights are almost same, and the suspension geometry is identical, too (with wheels having a bit different offsets on wide body). That said, the LT6 engine is a much taller DOHC design, and has its center of gravity significantly higher than LT2. This means there is a significant amount of weight swinging side to side as you take corners, needing significant damping.
With my current coilovers, I am working with JJ (UpSpeed performance) to find the right amount of damping, and sky is the limit with this 4-way kit. In my recent tests, I kept increasing low speed compression to tame the rear, and it worked great, but I realized I am likely sacrificing corner exit traction, and I'm also greasing up the rear tires faster with this "too much low speed compression", so as a next step, I'm dialing back rear LSC, but will add more rear sway bar to have enough support mid-corner, yet have more traction exiting corner as well. I'm looking forward to seeing how it feels over the weekend.
It should be noted that these dynamic changes (i.e. high low speed compression dampening during sharp turns vs much less of it right when you're exiting corner with less side loads to improve corner exit traction) can be handled very nicely by dynamic shocks like the OEM (if its map can be modified or overriden with aftermarket controller like DSC) or Tractive shocks we had available for C7s, so I also wonder if we'll have such options in future, too. For now, a 4-way suspension with support from the coilover manufacturer to provide the right dampening for all its slow and high speed compression and rebound is the best way to go in my opinion. Or, you can just leave it stock including stock tires, and enjoy like that, too (but forget about using 18" tires with big sidewalls) : )
I think I'm slowly getting close to an ideal setup for me with these coilovers, and will share once I am more confident. Of course, it would be a good setup "for me", and might not be ideal for everyone else, and there is NEVER a perfect setup. Even if there was, it would be perfect for a track, and not so for another one anyway... But fear not, isn't this the fun part for the enthusiast; always seeking for a 'better' setup? After all, if I did my best lap time I can ever do with this car at day 1, the first time I go to track with it, I'd then just sell it.
I will have to look into the wheel weights for when I have the new tires mounted up for my Z51. If I can avoid the tape that would be awesome. It just adds more cleanup every tire change and isn't visually appealing.
Great info on the coilovers. I purchased a set of MCS 2WNR's from another member which should be more than sufficient for my speed and driving style. The OEM Z51 setup even with Hyperco springs was way too soft for my liking. It seems from yourself and others the driving dynamics and setup of the Z06 are a bit different and almost seems more difficult. The Z51 may be a better track day option when you factor in cost even once you toss money at it to get the suspension, brakes, wheels/tires dialed in. Do you ever find yourself wishing you kept the Z51 over the Z06?
On the top of that, those Hofmann Type 380 weights also leave no residue, so there's no adhesive cleanup, either!
MCS coilovers can work well for Z51; I think it'll work great for you. Even for Z51, I'd consider a mild rear sway bar, perhaps Eibach at its softer setting (40% stiffer than OEM Z51 bar). Besides, it takes just 20 minuytes to install the rear bar anyway, so very easy to experiment!
Z51 vs Z06 is a hard question to answer. In previous generations, wide body would be a must for optimal setup, since you couldn't stuff enough tire under fenders of Z51 cars. Yet, for C8s, you can shod Z51s with 295 / 345 tires, though with a bit narrower wheels, mitigating the biggest issue.
Z51 vs Z06:
Wheel / tires: No longer a big issue like it was in previous gen Corvettes, since Z51 can fit 295/345 tires, though on a bit narrower wheels.
Suspension: Stock Z51 suspension is not up for the task, but it's easy to replace it with coilovers. If you opt out of magna ride, you don't have to deal with simulators, either. Z06, on the other hand, can do very well with stock suspension, but you need to stick with ultra-low-and-stiff-profile tires for its calibration to work well. As I mentioned above, Z06 needs different suspension setup, and most aftermarket coilovers are designed on Z51, and they don't work optimal on Z06.
Price / value: You can obviously save quite a bit of $$$ with Z51.
Overall lap times: You can't overcome the fact that Z06 comes with a much stronger engine that comes with proper cooling (V09 rad + center front rad for additional cooling, as well as a huge engine oil heat exchanger under the engine). LT6 can do the same pace lap after lap, and the 175 HP advantage will make it compete with fastest cars at the track. Z51 will be at least a second or two behind per lap with the same driver, and will hit higher coolant temps in technical laps with not enough straighways.
Reliability: LT6, with its high redline is a huge suspect in longevity, yet I hear more LT2s failing than LT6s, so not sure about this one. Perhaps LS6 replacing LT2, which will be built in US, might prove to be more reliable.
Calibration: Z51 calibration on PTM, e-diff, magna ride, etc. are all too mild and conservative for track use. e-diff can even introduce artifical understeer in long corners (mitigated by feathering brakes to force e-diff unlock fully). I think Z06 is much better suited on this end. That said, if you're turning everything off anyway like I do, I'm not sure if it matters much (besides the e-diff).
Overall, not an easy question. I think Grand Sport might be a nice one if it comes with more track oriented e-diff, etc.
With the brake pad prices going through the roof, I decided to give EBC SR11s a try. I've previously tried SR21s on my Z51, and found that they were wearing faster than they should. EBC has since updated their formula, and I received a replacement with the updated formula at the time, but never got a chance to try them again. These are made in USA, and are 40% of the price of import stuff!!
My test with the new sway bar was inconclusive, since tires are giving up after 14 heat cycles, and were no longer as good as they can. They provide good enough grip for the first few laps, and they drop off noticeably. Anyway, I'll practice with them a bit more, and will replace them with a new set (or one of my other sets like Trofeo Track or Hankook F200). I'll have a chance to try it again in a few weeks; looking forward to it.
In the meantime, brakes are now refreshed. Pads are replaced by rotors are still holding up very well! Fronts. Now that I have data with the Pagid, I can easily compare SR11s against it.
The rear rotor has been there for a long while, now, and look fine. Looked for any cracks at the edges, and there's none. Keep in mind, these are Paragon Brakes rotors for AP brakes...
Red ones are retired (no longer usable). R8s have had 17 heat cycles, and don't really feel great anymore : ) I have a brand new set of F200s I'll add to the list here, soon, and shold probably refresh R8s as well.
DP8080 is the shape, with .24 and .18 denoting the thickness of the pads..
I decided to do some garage cleaning today, and WOW, I think I am now good at changing tires!!!
There are two crucial changes that has drastically made everything easier:
(1) Use lube liberaly by the new tire bead area and the wheel lip. Not all lubes are same, and some of the lubes indeed dry out properly, not causing slipping issues later on.
(2) I now remove TPMS sensor before removal and mounting the new tire! Removal of the sensor gives a you a few mm more space, which is, it turns out, ALL YOU NEED to not need any hack to remove or mount massive tires.
Sway bar: I also moved the sway bar setting to 40% stiffer from 70% stiffer. My test with the stiffer setting was inconclusive at the track, which was further complicated with traffic and tires running out of steam. That said, I have a feeling that it might have gotten a bit too much with these strong shocks, so I decided to dialit back and retry.
Overall handling: I think I'm getting close to an ideal setup. As such, in the next few events, instead of lap time vs. shock settings tuning, I will concentrate on my lines with the current available traction, which I think might unlock a few seconds since I've been used to staying conservative on some of the turns since the OEM shock was not giving me confidence in those turns, and I need to probe them again.
Brake test: If course, I'll be testing EBC SR11s, too. If they indeed work well with their updated formula as EBC suggests (the first released versions were wearing down a bit fast in high temp use cases), this might be a great alternative to Pagid RSL1E pads. Pagids are great, but with tariffs, it now costs me $1400-$1500 shipped from UK, and that's 2.5x the cost of EBCs which are made in USA. If SR11s even last 70-80+% of Pagid, they would be an excellent choice!
It's pretty easy to remove the sensor before starting to remove the tire. Once removed, the back of the TPMS no longer pushes back against the tire lip, which has made everything drastically easier. I just put it back on before putting air, and done.
Speaking of which, extra lube helps with beading, and I have not exceeded 40 PSI on mounting 5 massive tires, which previously needed a lot higher pressures, making me get worried about a tire failure during beading!
Finally, do you see how dirty the wheels are? Check out the pic (further down) of the wheels with them wiped down simply by water spray followed by a paper towel...
I used WD-40 Silicone spray to clean up the table; worked great.
Hankook F200 all ready to rumble.
New R8s are ready, too, but I won't use them until I'm done with my suspension tuning. I used a water spray to make the barrel wet, and just used a simple paper towel to wipe all that brake dust it accumulated. It worked great.
The hole you see the bolt on is the stiffer setting (70% stiffer than Z51) since it's closer to the bar, with less leverage on it. I moved it to the next hole, which is 40% stiffer than Z51.
What lube have you found to be the best? I have Yamalube for motorcycle tires as that is what the track guys use. For car tires I have been using the tub of lube but I forget the brand.
Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette
Slideshow: A Jaguar designer's personal project imagines what a modern front-engined Corvette might look like if Chevrolet revisited the golden age of the Stingray.
