WATTACAR

Alright folks.. Weighing out what my winter project is going to be on my car.. I was maybe going to hook up a c6.. but really do like my car and prefer the curves the c5 has vs the c6 (no offense of course).

So wana spend some cash on some "go Fast" goodies.. My car will likely never see the track or the strip. .. But want some more "*****" while maintaining some good street manors.

Its a stock C5 LS1 Auto..

Is it Heads/cam (and if so which ones?)

Or is it a blower set up...

Or.................

Would love to both but not in the cards right now..

Talk to me folks... All input is welcomed good or bad..

0Arun@ChampionMotors

LOL-open up the can of worms!!!!

I'm gonna keep quiet on this one-there's tonnes of " internet experts" here that can answer all of those questions and more

I mean what do I know-I've only gone both routes, have 100's dyno files of proof, 100's of passes at the track, tried all the popular heads (ported stock, AFR, TFS), installed a dozen cams, headers, gears, exhausts, blowers, Paxton, Vortech, Procharger, A&A kits, ECS kits, Procharger kits.........

Maybe now I'll sit back and learn something-please folks "enlighten me"

Cdn Z06 Mike

Jamie, why not hit the friggin red button that says "NUKES" on it ....

You need to be very clear on the direction you wish to take with the car as well. Both present and future. I was in your world ..o more than once or twice I think.... a H/C combo is nice if you want a little more jam and thats it. Many of the guys here who have gone the H/C route have ended up going to bigger forged motors and then went blower to boot. It's no secret now that I have decided to go the blower route since it offers many advantages in my opinion now ( the problem for me was I was hung up on the maggie and that is long gone now too). It will ultimately give you more performance for starters. cost a little bit more out of the gate but for the $ to power advantage is greater. Also if you ever decide to sell your car the blower is easily removed and sold and the car is back to stock quickly. When you put the $ into a H/C combo its gone chief. You will get many opinions comming soon I am sure but ultimately you need to make the decision. Champions deal on the V3 you will never see again. This is what made me jump. Good luck on whatever you decide buddy.

Swift_Striker

don't want to sound the internet expert Arun warned of but I will go with the knowledge I've accumulated from working on my car and automotive engineering.

FI is nice, it gives good drivability and power. However to get the most out of it, your engine would benefit from a stronger bottom end than stock and a cam that will work with the blower.

FI changes the variables of the engine, you are putting increased stress on your rotating assembly (Though I'm sure the stock bottom end can handle some boost). Compression ratio is already relatively high for LS engines ( I believe 10:1) which means forcing more air in is going to jack that up past street gas levels (depending on boost level).

Heads and Cam simply make your current engine more efficient. There is less chance of reliability issues. However since we aren't running VTECs the cam profile is fixed and if you want power you will lose a degree of drivability or gas milage compared to a stock cam.

And either way you go you will definately need a damn good tune. My suggestion would be heads and cam, it's quick and easy, less tuning headache and less expensive. That's just my internet opinion though.

WATTACAR

[QUOTE=Cdn Z06 Mike;1572230416]Jamie, why not hit the friggin red button that says "NUKES" on it ....QUOTE]

Kinda figured i'm going to get a HUGE difference of opinions on here..I got a taste of it in Mike's Supercharger thread.
But honestly.. opinions are what i'm looking for.. not a beat up match. I really wanna hear what way you would go and why. Trying to avoid hearing why someone else is wrong.. If i was your brother(one you liked anyways..) what way would you tell him to go??
I'm gonna make my own decision.. heck i may go even different again... As i mentioned before.. I was going to hold out till the event at chris`place and still may do so, but also thinking i wanna get on robs blower deal if i go that way..

Long term for the car??.. I will have another Vette in the not-too distant future.. But think wanna have a bit more fun with this one first. The more i like it, the longer i will keep it... but streetablity is a must for me.

Arun - tuning god - i do bow to your experience.. teach me wise one..

JnJSpdShop

A & A Supercharger kit, nothing else will get you close to that HP and still drive like a bone stock vette when you are off the throttle

0Arun@ChampionMotors

LOL-I'm just like every guy here on the board, I started exactly where each and everyone here did. And I'm still learning new things everyday!

Let me just point this out as far as the H/C goes. A former vendor here this season was shooting for "500" rwhp the "old fashion way", he ended up around 460 rwhp, after spending quite a bit of dough.

To do a H/C combo right let's look at it:

Heads, TFS or AFR: $2200
YT roller rockers: $400
Intake Fast 90: $800
Underdrive pulley: $200
90mm TB: $300
Cam: $450
Pushrods: $150
Injectors: $300
Timing chain: $200
Oil pump: $170
Head stus: $250
MLS gaskets: $150

So we have $5570 US, don't forget you still have to install and tune it. This still doesn't include porting the intake, TB-expect to pay another $300.

$2000 to install and $550 to tune, at the very least.

Expected power, say 440-475 rwhp depending on cam size. The bigger the cam, the worse your driveability gets.

You can always pay less but you will get less.

Just some numbers to crunch!

As for the thought that a stock motor is comprimised with a blower:



This was taken 4 years ago-and the motor is no longer in this car but in another and still running strong!

NOT2MELO

Hey either way will lead you to some great driving fun!

I did the H/C combo and all my other mods over a period of time as it was easier on the pocket book and came out with 435rwhp, 397.21trq using an old FAST 75 and stock ported TB still.
I went the cheaper route and did the Trickflow "As Cast" heads and dont think there is that much of a HP difference (10) between them and the CNC'd ones but the price saving was huge.

If I had to do it all over again with a stock motor think I would just throw a good pair of headers and exhaust on the car and then add a blower as the prices have dropped so much over the last while on the units. Its also a good time to be doing mods with our dollar almost at par with the US currency.

My old GTP was a blown car and they can be a ton of fun but I guess it just depends on what you are looking for in the car, just to have some fun with all the new HP or race it and take to the strip or track?

Either direction H/C or FI for a pile of money you will end up with a much more enjoyable car to drive Jamie.

tlaselva

Very simple.

If your going to road-race, it's a given to stay N/A.

For strip or weekend fun toy, FI's the way to go.

I've had both, big N/A motor (ECS 447ci) at 580rwhp, a H/C LS7 @ 530rwhp in my C6Z and now a Novi2000 on a built LS7 427 at over 800rwhp in my C5Z.

Novi definitely makes more power, brutal, and enough to stay neck and neck with a '09 1000cc GSXR on a highway pull.
No chance to do that with a N/A motor's I've had, but there's an appeal with a 500+rwhp N/A motor in it's simplicity and reliability.

Don't make the mistake of just looking at a peak number though.
A N/A 500rwhp will have a 500rwhp FI setup for lunch at the strip. Been there, done that.
There are some people on this thread that have seen it first hand at Cayuga last summer too.

qwikredline

x 2..........but i was not at cayuga

danielf

As watching many of C5 builds get blown up at TMP and on the road The Main issue should be a COMPLETELY balanced drive train between Engine, Transmission and Rear End.If you put any of these out of power balance have the flatbed and your check book ready to compensate for the poor planning. A 500 hp motor is great idea but if you can't put the power to the ground you just have waisted your money...
Dyno Queen's are just for indoor use only
Street ability and being able to cruise without issue's looks to be your main concern as to mine, It just takes time and proper planning to get a project that you will be happy with Take Care and Good luck with it... Have Fun

GettReal

OK, I'll continue to ask questions...hehe..

how much is enough?? Listed above are 'ideal' ways to go for increase HP, but, If you want to just feel an improvement, you could go with just a mid size cam, a tune and get 3.90 gears...you'll feel that.

If you want more then 500rwhp... you should go FI for sure. I am over 500 N/A rwhp but its not the most streetable car anymore either.

0Arun@ChampionMotors

Again more flaws in this theory, I above posted a vid of a stock 346 with a blower-your 427 in a C6Z couldn't replicate that. That was the first and only pass of the day-driving to the track-getting kicked off and then driving home.

Now your keep saying 500 rwhp N/A, but you forget to mention that was a 427-not a 346-so add that up and your way over budget.

And your car is a C6Z06 versus a C5Z06, Hmmm but there was some very nice suspension/tire enhancements between the 2-so it is very unfair to compare the 2.

Lastly just because one FI car didn't perform doesn't mean they will all be the same-that's a unfair statement that both you and I know is not true.

The 500 rwhp blower car must of had some issues-because a 122-124 in the traps is definitely not 500 or 530 rwhp, something just doesn't add up there.

Jamie, just leave your car stock-save yourself the headache!!!

There's going to be lots too talk about on the 13th!!

WATTACAR

I'm trying to plan it out right and thus this thread.. i may not take all one persons advice but likely a combbination of many peoples. I just want to avoid some of the mistakes i'm sure all of us have made at somepoint.....


What is Enough? for me... i'd love to get into the 475-500rwhp range, as having driven a couple and love the life in them. But beyond that i think its unnessessary in a street car (imo) Mine is a cruiser(all be it sometimes an aggressive cruiser..) And won't be anything more then that.. If i wanna hit the track one day i'll borrow Mike's Car!! LOL

Tony.. I'd love a ride in your beast sometime..

corrado

I'm always debating the same thing!!

88BlackZ-51

i would do none of the above.


nothing like a camned stroker!

terry621

stock people keep them all stock....


Ok I need another few HP uuummmm what to do..

Swift_Striker

I'm happy to see that the LS engines are stout and can handle boost for their life.

I agree, doing a heads and cam swap right will cost a lot of money, as would doing a FI right. I agree with you that FI is great as it provides good power and keeps drivability but in fairness you should give a list of what it would cost to do a FI setup right.

My only other question is what gas was that car running in the video? still street gas? (just wondering what the compression on that motor is)

If he were to do just the heads and cam straight up, it would be cheaper, and even provide a base for FI in the future.

0Arun@ChampionMotors

That car in the video is my car-4 years ago, before that I was heads and cam. I put my car back to stock when I put the blower on.
Car is run on pump gas and meth, still is today-but now I'm running these numbers. It's the fastest full weight, power everything, AC and all, A4, street driven C5 Z06 in North America.



I went the H/C route before the blower, I went the cam route before the Heads-I did the bolton's before that-I think I speak from experience

As for the cost of the blower-$5300 USD( List price-some vendors may sell for less ), then about $2000-$2200 installed in tuned. The results-around 525-550 rwhp and around 475-520 rwtq.

Some good reading on this link:

http://www.aacorvette.com/superchargers/

tlaselva

Compare apples to apples. Go to the C6Z fast list. There are at least 5 Z's that have gone faster than you, all of them spotting you about 50rwhp.

I'm comparing very similar cars, and you know the story, I've posted it twice but it seems you keep on ignoring it because you have a problem with the truth. A 530rwhp N/A car will have a 530rwhp FI car for lunch. And that's all there is too it. I'm sorry you can't accept it, but it's what I experienced at the track with Bobby and I. You keep on saying otherwise, but you fail to give me specific examples like I have.

Suspension mods? I had PFADT coil-overs and sway's set up for road racing. Bobby's stock suspension was better suited for the track anyway. I was consistently .5 seconds faster with my C6Z with road racing suspension, and a balding stock F1 tire to Bobby's stock suspension, Nitto Drag radial on the same day, same track at the same dyno numbers.

Your lucky I still don't have my C6Z or I'd ask you to go get a 530rwhp Centri Vette and show you at the track. But then again, you'd likely come up with more excuses why the Centri's slower.