18 months, 12 coatings...final thoughts.
09-20-2017, 04:55 PM
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Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
18 months, 12 coatings...final thoughts.
I`ve messed around with a pretty fair amount of consumer level coatings in the past 18 months including:
Cquartz Classic w/ Gyeon Cure (Reload not avaliable in economical size at time of application)
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic
McKees 37 Paint Coating
Gyeon Prime w/ Gyeon Cure
Gyeon Mohs w/ Gyeon Cure
Pearl Nano
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light w/ Liquid Crystal C2V3
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating
22ple HPC w/ VS1 Final Coat
Feynlab Ceramic
Kamikaze Miyabi
Kamikaze ISM
Some were on personal cars, most were on fleet vehicles at work. All were decon'd/clayed/compounded/polished as necessary using a variety of machines (Flex 3401, Rupes LHR15 Mk2, Rupes LHR75 Mini, Griots Garage 6' DA), a variety of pads (LC flat, LC Hydrotech, LC Force Hybrid, LC Thin Pros, Rupes, Megs Microfiber discs, B & S Uro Cell, B & S Uro Tec, Scholls Spider Pads).
Mostly for Flex was the LC Force Hybrids and usually on Rupes the Megs microfiber discs and Rupes foam pads).
I tried/used a variety of compounds and polishes (Wolfgang Uber Compound, Total Swirl Remover, Finishing Glaze, Menzerna FG400, 2400, 3500 & 3800; Rupes Blue, yellow and white compounds/polishes, Sonax Perfect Finish, Jescar Compound and Finishing Polish, Scholl Concepts S20 Black and S40, Meguiars M101, M205 and D300, 3D/HD Polish+).
Fleet vehicles were completed and then released into the wild, none have been washed since coating application. Most sit outside nearly all the time, likely average 20K miles since application. They ranged from 2016 Ford Transit Exteneded Vans (man, those things SUCKED to correct), Ford E250 panel vans from 2008 thru 2014 and Ford Ranger pickup trucks; all either bright red or a burgundy metallic color.
Our personal cars are a 2016 Honda Civic Coupe in Aegean Blue Metallic, a 2016 Subaru WRX in Crystal Black Silica Metallic (sold 1 month after doing the whole Kamikaze combo on it'¦oops!), a 2017 Honda Accord V6 Coupe in black, and a 2004 Corvette in, well'¦black, non metallic. They get washed when dirty using Gyeon Foam at 1:10 dilution w/ SunJoe SPX3001 pressure washer, MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, Gyeon Bathe, 1-bucket wash (gasp!), flood rinsed and then dried with platinum pluffle towels, using Kamikaze Overcoat as a drying aid about once a month (ok...maybe more frequently cuz the stuff just makes drying a car soooo much easier and, remember, I'm kinda lazy at times.
As for my experience, well...perhaps 'marginally functional garage hobbyist' is the best way to describe it. Picked up a DA for the first time about 18 months ago when I bought the Subaru and realized just looking at it wrong would leave a swirl/mark. That's when I began looking into coatings, first doing most of our cars with WG Uber Ceramic in Spring 2016.
While all were solid products and there were really no disappointments in the bunch, I did find one particular Collection that best met *my* needs, that being Kamikaze.
We`ve had it (Miyabi/ISM/Overcoat and added Infinity and Stance in Spring 2017) on one of our daily drivers since 10/2016 and our auto usage habits, local environmental conditions and maintenance routines haven`t fazed it one bit since application. It just always looks great to my eye, holds up, protects and keeps itself clean with minimal effort. It made it thru daily use in the NE Ohio winter without any noticeable degradation whatsoever and a good summer rainstorm is akin to a free car wash with this stuff; self-cleaning is simply fantastic for me.
Does that make it the best consumer level coating in all the land? Really can`t answer that because there are so many individual and somewhat subjective variables involved in a statement such as that...but I can say that for ME, yes, it is the best coating in my world. The stuff just plain works.
Since this is all somewhat of a hobby for me, with the added benefit of incredible protection and appearance, at the end of the day it has to be fun too. The whole Kamikaze `experience` has been just too much fun for me to continue to look for the next greatest `thing`...every time I look at the cars I find some new nuance, smile and am reminded of all of the enjoyment that went into it.
And yes, I probably put way too much thought into It but that`s what hobbies are for, no?
Put it all together and this is what works best for me so I`ve finally got all our cars wrapped up with it and will now just sit back and enjoy its benefits for a while.
Regarding the individual products, *my* thoughts follow, totally subjective, tailored to what I want out of a coating, namely:
1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don't like waterspots. I like clean cars but don't like cleaning cars.
2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don't wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our Corvette during the Zaino years. Also has to last cuz I don't wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.
3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.
Regarding the individual coatings I used while trying to find something that topped the Kamikaze products, I'll offer up the most subjective of opinions below:
Cquartz Classic: Applied in January 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended Van. It's a solid product, especially given the generally low cost. Application is easy, the looks are good. Finished application is not especially slick, so I topped it with Gyeon Cure. It has remained nice looking, resisted permanent water spotting. A solid, middle of the pack product that likely won't disappoint. Nothing extremely notable about it to me, however.
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic: Applied in Spring 2016 to 2 of our personal cars, a 2016 black metallic WRX (daily driver all year long, garaged at night, likely 17K miles a year) and 2004 black Corvette (Spring/Summer/Fall usage, stored in winter, maybe 7500 miles a year, does see rain). Being stored thru the winter, the Corvette made it to Spring of 2017 in good shape with the WG Uber; the WRX, however, had completely failed on the vertical panels. Even decon and slight clay could not restore coating properties. IMO, this product, wheil looking good and easy to apply, is just not durable and given the relatively high cost, not a winner in my book
McKees 37 Paint Coating: For the cost, this one surprised me. Used it on a friend's car that gets occasional washing, daily driven, about 5000 miles year-round. Nice looks, easy maintenance when combined with another SiO2 add-on like or Gyeon Wetcoat or Cure. It's still doing nicely after application in Summer 2016, generally maintained with Gyeon Wetcoat on occasion. On its own, maybe it wouldn't last as long but I cant say for sure
Gyeon Prime: It's nice, easy to use and has some good initial water behavior. Good glossy looks, I'd place it a bit below Cquartz. It just really didn't do much for me.
Gyeon Mohs: This is a nice product, among the best at self-cleaning since applied to a fleet Ford Ranger in February 2016. Has always looked clean despite never having been washed since application. Beading has fallen off a bit but it still looks clean, shiny and to a none-ocd person, would look freshly washed. Seems to resist marring better than some of the others.
Pearl Nano: Base Coat/Top Coat system. I did a bright red Ford Ranger in this, never been washed since application in Feb/March 2016. Gotta kinda jump thru some hoops to get this stuff, did not excel in self-cleaning but was decent. Given the pricing (not outrageous, but in the 22ple HPC range for Base/Top 50ml), not something I'd be interesting in using again. It's a nice product but not notable enough to continue with when easier, equal performing choices are available. Will say that their glass coating IS nice, worked better for me than Gyeon View or Kamikaze Intenso.
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light: I really wanted to like this; I like the name, the packaging and the company and upon initial application (topped with Liquid Crystal C2V3) it darkened the bright red paint of the 2014 Ford E250 van I used it on. Nice, deep, rich gloss, easy application. Unfortunately, once released into the wild it was prone to water spotting (easily removed) and was probably the worst of all I tried in self-cleaning abilities. Oddly enough, about 3 months in it started keeping itself cleaner with no outside intervention except for Mother Nature and her rain. Have seen evidence that if topped with EXO, it's a whole '˜nuther animal, with incredible hydrophobic properties which would significantly aid in self cleaning abilities.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating: This was V1, they have since released V2 which I want to try sometime. I'd put it in the same class as Cquartz as far as performance goes. Longevity began to drop off as far as self-cleaning goes, but not to Gtechniq CSL levels. It's good and I'll bet if topped with an SiO2 booster, would amp up performance. The looks on a metallic burgundy paint in the sun was fantastic, really brought out the metallic.
22ple HPC: This was a favorite and for a while, I thought it was gonna unseat the Kamikaze as my favorite. Incredible gloss, most of any I used, the hard, candy gloss appearance. Great self-cleaning abilities, even 6 months after application with no washing/topping or anything. Application is bizarrely easy, very forgiving. It flashes much like a wax or sealant when time to remove so less guesswork there. I applied at the end of March 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended van, bright red, and it immediately gave that cliché'd Molten Glass look to the paint.
It was so nice that I used it on the 2017 black Honda Acccord Coupe I traded in the WRX on. Applied around July 4 to the Accord, it sure looked like a winner'¦until I pulled it in the garage next to the recently completed Corvette (Kamikaze Miyabi x2, ISM x1, Infinity Wax and Overcoat). The Accord with the 22ple HPC still looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a foot deep. Unfortunately, the Corvette with the Kamikaze looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a MILE deep. Goodbye 22ple, hello Kamikaze on the black Accord.
Feynlab Ceramic: I gave this a shot on the Corvette in between removing 2016's WG Uber and applying the Kamikaze. It was crazy forgiving in application, long window between apply/remove and left a sharp glossy finish that was quite nice. Unfortunately, the self-cleaning and water behavior was poor, leaving significant water spots after a rainstorm. Again, easily removed with wash but still'¦not in Kamikaze league in that respect.
So, what conclusions have I come to after spending all that time (and money) auditioning all those coatings? Well, considering the climate I live in, the looks I like and the characteristics of coating that I consider primary, I've kinda settled on the below for folks who want their car coated; I broken into the top, money is no object choice and then the others at number 2a, b & c depending on conditions, color, appearance and durability desired.
1. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM x 1, (Infinity Wax optional, just gives a really nice, subtle '˜relaxed high gloss' to the finish) and maintain with Kamikaze Overcoat. Looks are a mixture of high gloss, deep, warm, rich glow and the self cleaning abilities are incredible. Coming up on the 1 year anniversary of application to our daily driven, sits outside 8 months a year, metallic blue Honda Civic and the thing just *always* looks great. Sure, it gets a bit dirty and nose to paint you will see the dirt but the water spots after rain seem to shrink and disappear before spotting, taking much of the surface contamination with them. Bird bombs come off with little to no effort/pressure, even if dried by the sun, leaving no mark. Being a Kamikaze fan-boy, I`m sure no one is surprised by this coming from me.
2a. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, maintained with Overcoat. High gloss, hard candy type look. Great self cleaning and at $90 for 30ml, pretty good bargain. Would use on dark cars that don't wanna go for the whole Kamikaze enchilada. Easy application, 5-15 minute window between application/removal given appropriate climate/temperature. Just so very easy to use.
2b. 22ple HPC. Much like the Miyabi alone, this high-gloss choice is good for lighter colored cars. Did a white Honda CRV in this and it really brought out the subtle metallic/pearl character of the paint. More $$ than Miyabi but nearly as stellar at self cleaning goes.
2c. Gyeon Mohs. Perhaps the best all-around choice for daily drivers at a reasonable cost. Great self-cleaning, and solid protection. I left a bird bomb on the hood for a week or so, backing in the hot summer sun and when it rained and removed itself, it left no mark. I think it's one of the '˜harder' coatings by reputation and I saw nothing that discredits that claim. I have seen that topping this with Gyeon Can Coat can add some longevity and amp up the gloss into '˜hard candy' territory as opposed to it's native deep, warm glow type gloss.
I`d still like to try the new McKees and the new Gloss Shop Ceramic soon (and I still have unopened Gyeon Prime, 30ml and Gyeon Mohs, 50ml, Gyeon Can Coat and Gyeon Booster in my cabinet) but I`m too tired, too broke (in my wife`s eyes regarding detailing expenditures anyway) and it`s kinda nice not having the next product and car on my mind.
I am gonna use up leftover Miyabi and ISM this weekend on a black Ford Escort daily driver for a guy at work, mostly to see how good I can get the paint and then to see how well Kamikaze holds up on a car that will likely see very little in the way of OCD-attention. I also wanna try leveling/removing a coating with the CarPro microsuede towels that some people seem to enjoy using.
Its been fun and interesting for sure, no regrets...
Couldn't have done it without the folks on various forums, most notably Corvette Forum and Autopia , many of whom are members here as well; those guys really know their stuff and are always willing to share, even sending product samples from their own stash if you wanna give something new a shot.
Also, supporting Corvette Forum vendor Esoteric Auto Detail has provided invaluable advice and reccomendations, always responsive to my inquiries...if you're reading this...thanks guys! Check out their YouTube channel for extensive videos on products and procedures...amazing the nuances you can pick up by watching vids on 60" monitors.
Come quite a long way since I first picked up a Griots Garage 6" DA, slathered some compound on a foam pad, cranked it up to 6 and fired it up...before putting it down on the paint; quite a cleanup needed on the garage walls, ceiling and door and it took me about 20 minutes to find the pad, resting on top of the closed garage door edge. Bet I couldn't do that again if I tried.
Cquartz Classic w/ Gyeon Cure (Reload not avaliable in economical size at time of application)
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic
McKees 37 Paint Coating
Gyeon Prime w/ Gyeon Cure
Gyeon Mohs w/ Gyeon Cure
Pearl Nano
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light w/ Liquid Crystal C2V3
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating
22ple HPC w/ VS1 Final Coat
Feynlab Ceramic
Kamikaze Miyabi
Kamikaze ISM
Some were on personal cars, most were on fleet vehicles at work. All were decon'd/clayed/compounded/polished as necessary using a variety of machines (Flex 3401, Rupes LHR15 Mk2, Rupes LHR75 Mini, Griots Garage 6' DA), a variety of pads (LC flat, LC Hydrotech, LC Force Hybrid, LC Thin Pros, Rupes, Megs Microfiber discs, B & S Uro Cell, B & S Uro Tec, Scholls Spider Pads).
Mostly for Flex was the LC Force Hybrids and usually on Rupes the Megs microfiber discs and Rupes foam pads).
I tried/used a variety of compounds and polishes (Wolfgang Uber Compound, Total Swirl Remover, Finishing Glaze, Menzerna FG400, 2400, 3500 & 3800; Rupes Blue, yellow and white compounds/polishes, Sonax Perfect Finish, Jescar Compound and Finishing Polish, Scholl Concepts S20 Black and S40, Meguiars M101, M205 and D300, 3D/HD Polish+).
Fleet vehicles were completed and then released into the wild, none have been washed since coating application. Most sit outside nearly all the time, likely average 20K miles since application. They ranged from 2016 Ford Transit Exteneded Vans (man, those things SUCKED to correct), Ford E250 panel vans from 2008 thru 2014 and Ford Ranger pickup trucks; all either bright red or a burgundy metallic color.
Our personal cars are a 2016 Honda Civic Coupe in Aegean Blue Metallic, a 2016 Subaru WRX in Crystal Black Silica Metallic (sold 1 month after doing the whole Kamikaze combo on it'¦oops!), a 2017 Honda Accord V6 Coupe in black, and a 2004 Corvette in, well'¦black, non metallic. They get washed when dirty using Gyeon Foam at 1:10 dilution w/ SunJoe SPX3001 pressure washer, MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, Gyeon Bathe, 1-bucket wash (gasp!), flood rinsed and then dried with platinum pluffle towels, using Kamikaze Overcoat as a drying aid about once a month (ok...maybe more frequently cuz the stuff just makes drying a car soooo much easier and, remember, I'm kinda lazy at times.
As for my experience, well...perhaps 'marginally functional garage hobbyist' is the best way to describe it. Picked up a DA for the first time about 18 months ago when I bought the Subaru and realized just looking at it wrong would leave a swirl/mark. That's when I began looking into coatings, first doing most of our cars with WG Uber Ceramic in Spring 2016.
While all were solid products and there were really no disappointments in the bunch, I did find one particular Collection that best met *my* needs, that being Kamikaze.
We`ve had it (Miyabi/ISM/Overcoat and added Infinity and Stance in Spring 2017) on one of our daily drivers since 10/2016 and our auto usage habits, local environmental conditions and maintenance routines haven`t fazed it one bit since application. It just always looks great to my eye, holds up, protects and keeps itself clean with minimal effort. It made it thru daily use in the NE Ohio winter without any noticeable degradation whatsoever and a good summer rainstorm is akin to a free car wash with this stuff; self-cleaning is simply fantastic for me.
Does that make it the best consumer level coating in all the land? Really can`t answer that because there are so many individual and somewhat subjective variables involved in a statement such as that...but I can say that for ME, yes, it is the best coating in my world. The stuff just plain works.
Since this is all somewhat of a hobby for me, with the added benefit of incredible protection and appearance, at the end of the day it has to be fun too. The whole Kamikaze `experience` has been just too much fun for me to continue to look for the next greatest `thing`...every time I look at the cars I find some new nuance, smile and am reminded of all of the enjoyment that went into it.
And yes, I probably put way too much thought into It but that`s what hobbies are for, no?
Put it all together and this is what works best for me so I`ve finally got all our cars wrapped up with it and will now just sit back and enjoy its benefits for a while.
Regarding the individual products, *my* thoughts follow, totally subjective, tailored to what I want out of a coating, namely:
1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don't like waterspots. I like clean cars but don't like cleaning cars.
2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don't wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our Corvette during the Zaino years. Also has to last cuz I don't wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.
3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.
Regarding the individual coatings I used while trying to find something that topped the Kamikaze products, I'll offer up the most subjective of opinions below:
Cquartz Classic: Applied in January 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended Van. It's a solid product, especially given the generally low cost. Application is easy, the looks are good. Finished application is not especially slick, so I topped it with Gyeon Cure. It has remained nice looking, resisted permanent water spotting. A solid, middle of the pack product that likely won't disappoint. Nothing extremely notable about it to me, however.
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic: Applied in Spring 2016 to 2 of our personal cars, a 2016 black metallic WRX (daily driver all year long, garaged at night, likely 17K miles a year) and 2004 black Corvette (Spring/Summer/Fall usage, stored in winter, maybe 7500 miles a year, does see rain). Being stored thru the winter, the Corvette made it to Spring of 2017 in good shape with the WG Uber; the WRX, however, had completely failed on the vertical panels. Even decon and slight clay could not restore coating properties. IMO, this product, wheil looking good and easy to apply, is just not durable and given the relatively high cost, not a winner in my book
McKees 37 Paint Coating: For the cost, this one surprised me. Used it on a friend's car that gets occasional washing, daily driven, about 5000 miles year-round. Nice looks, easy maintenance when combined with another SiO2 add-on like or Gyeon Wetcoat or Cure. It's still doing nicely after application in Summer 2016, generally maintained with Gyeon Wetcoat on occasion. On its own, maybe it wouldn't last as long but I cant say for sure
Gyeon Prime: It's nice, easy to use and has some good initial water behavior. Good glossy looks, I'd place it a bit below Cquartz. It just really didn't do much for me.
Gyeon Mohs: This is a nice product, among the best at self-cleaning since applied to a fleet Ford Ranger in February 2016. Has always looked clean despite never having been washed since application. Beading has fallen off a bit but it still looks clean, shiny and to a none-ocd person, would look freshly washed. Seems to resist marring better than some of the others.
Pearl Nano: Base Coat/Top Coat system. I did a bright red Ford Ranger in this, never been washed since application in Feb/March 2016. Gotta kinda jump thru some hoops to get this stuff, did not excel in self-cleaning but was decent. Given the pricing (not outrageous, but in the 22ple HPC range for Base/Top 50ml), not something I'd be interesting in using again. It's a nice product but not notable enough to continue with when easier, equal performing choices are available. Will say that their glass coating IS nice, worked better for me than Gyeon View or Kamikaze Intenso.
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light: I really wanted to like this; I like the name, the packaging and the company and upon initial application (topped with Liquid Crystal C2V3) it darkened the bright red paint of the 2014 Ford E250 van I used it on. Nice, deep, rich gloss, easy application. Unfortunately, once released into the wild it was prone to water spotting (easily removed) and was probably the worst of all I tried in self-cleaning abilities. Oddly enough, about 3 months in it started keeping itself cleaner with no outside intervention except for Mother Nature and her rain. Have seen evidence that if topped with EXO, it's a whole '˜nuther animal, with incredible hydrophobic properties which would significantly aid in self cleaning abilities.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating: This was V1, they have since released V2 which I want to try sometime. I'd put it in the same class as Cquartz as far as performance goes. Longevity began to drop off as far as self-cleaning goes, but not to Gtechniq CSL levels. It's good and I'll bet if topped with an SiO2 booster, would amp up performance. The looks on a metallic burgundy paint in the sun was fantastic, really brought out the metallic.
22ple HPC: This was a favorite and for a while, I thought it was gonna unseat the Kamikaze as my favorite. Incredible gloss, most of any I used, the hard, candy gloss appearance. Great self-cleaning abilities, even 6 months after application with no washing/topping or anything. Application is bizarrely easy, very forgiving. It flashes much like a wax or sealant when time to remove so less guesswork there. I applied at the end of March 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended van, bright red, and it immediately gave that cliché'd Molten Glass look to the paint.
It was so nice that I used it on the 2017 black Honda Acccord Coupe I traded in the WRX on. Applied around July 4 to the Accord, it sure looked like a winner'¦until I pulled it in the garage next to the recently completed Corvette (Kamikaze Miyabi x2, ISM x1, Infinity Wax and Overcoat). The Accord with the 22ple HPC still looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a foot deep. Unfortunately, the Corvette with the Kamikaze looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a MILE deep. Goodbye 22ple, hello Kamikaze on the black Accord.
Feynlab Ceramic: I gave this a shot on the Corvette in between removing 2016's WG Uber and applying the Kamikaze. It was crazy forgiving in application, long window between apply/remove and left a sharp glossy finish that was quite nice. Unfortunately, the self-cleaning and water behavior was poor, leaving significant water spots after a rainstorm. Again, easily removed with wash but still'¦not in Kamikaze league in that respect.
So, what conclusions have I come to after spending all that time (and money) auditioning all those coatings? Well, considering the climate I live in, the looks I like and the characteristics of coating that I consider primary, I've kinda settled on the below for folks who want their car coated; I broken into the top, money is no object choice and then the others at number 2a, b & c depending on conditions, color, appearance and durability desired.
1. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM x 1, (Infinity Wax optional, just gives a really nice, subtle '˜relaxed high gloss' to the finish) and maintain with Kamikaze Overcoat. Looks are a mixture of high gloss, deep, warm, rich glow and the self cleaning abilities are incredible. Coming up on the 1 year anniversary of application to our daily driven, sits outside 8 months a year, metallic blue Honda Civic and the thing just *always* looks great. Sure, it gets a bit dirty and nose to paint you will see the dirt but the water spots after rain seem to shrink and disappear before spotting, taking much of the surface contamination with them. Bird bombs come off with little to no effort/pressure, even if dried by the sun, leaving no mark. Being a Kamikaze fan-boy, I`m sure no one is surprised by this coming from me.
2a. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, maintained with Overcoat. High gloss, hard candy type look. Great self cleaning and at $90 for 30ml, pretty good bargain. Would use on dark cars that don't wanna go for the whole Kamikaze enchilada. Easy application, 5-15 minute window between application/removal given appropriate climate/temperature. Just so very easy to use.
2b. 22ple HPC. Much like the Miyabi alone, this high-gloss choice is good for lighter colored cars. Did a white Honda CRV in this and it really brought out the subtle metallic/pearl character of the paint. More $$ than Miyabi but nearly as stellar at self cleaning goes.
2c. Gyeon Mohs. Perhaps the best all-around choice for daily drivers at a reasonable cost. Great self-cleaning, and solid protection. I left a bird bomb on the hood for a week or so, backing in the hot summer sun and when it rained and removed itself, it left no mark. I think it's one of the '˜harder' coatings by reputation and I saw nothing that discredits that claim. I have seen that topping this with Gyeon Can Coat can add some longevity and amp up the gloss into '˜hard candy' territory as opposed to it's native deep, warm glow type gloss.
I`d still like to try the new McKees and the new Gloss Shop Ceramic soon (and I still have unopened Gyeon Prime, 30ml and Gyeon Mohs, 50ml, Gyeon Can Coat and Gyeon Booster in my cabinet) but I`m too tired, too broke (in my wife`s eyes regarding detailing expenditures anyway) and it`s kinda nice not having the next product and car on my mind.
I am gonna use up leftover Miyabi and ISM this weekend on a black Ford Escort daily driver for a guy at work, mostly to see how good I can get the paint and then to see how well Kamikaze holds up on a car that will likely see very little in the way of OCD-attention. I also wanna try leveling/removing a coating with the CarPro microsuede towels that some people seem to enjoy using.
Its been fun and interesting for sure, no regrets...
Couldn't have done it without the folks on various forums, most notably Corvette Forum and Autopia , many of whom are members here as well; those guys really know their stuff and are always willing to share, even sending product samples from their own stash if you wanna give something new a shot.
Also, supporting Corvette Forum vendor Esoteric Auto Detail has provided invaluable advice and reccomendations, always responsive to my inquiries...if you're reading this...thanks guys! Check out their YouTube channel for extensive videos on products and procedures...amazing the nuances you can pick up by watching vids on 60" monitors.
Come quite a long way since I first picked up a Griots Garage 6" DA, slathered some compound on a foam pad, cranked it up to 6 and fired it up...before putting it down on the paint; quite a cleanup needed on the garage walls, ceiling and door and it took me about 20 minutes to find the pad, resting on top of the closed garage door edge. Bet I couldn't do that again if I tried.
Last edited by BudgetPlan1; 10-04-2017 at 01:59 PM.
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09-21-2017, 12:35 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: NE OH
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Important to note than none of my opinions and experiences can be considered universal truths. Just my experiences in my little corner of the world, everybody may have different (And completely valid) views. Sooo many variables to consider...
The Megs M101 with the Flex can do some serious lifting, as can D300 wirh microfiber discs on Rupes, I used them a lot with the Fleet trucks followed by M205 cuz they're cheap and effective. I seem to prefer SMAT stuff with Flex and DAT with Rupes.
The Scholl Concepts stuff is great wirh both Flex and Rupes, spider pads and LC Hydrotechs as it seems to prefer closed cell. The S20 can be easily 1 stepped with a great finish and the S40, for me, was a significant improvement over Menzerna PoR85D/3800. Scholl especially good for me on soft, sticky paint.
I gave away all my Menzerna and Wolfgang stuff; found Wolfgang to be essentially more expensive Menzerna and likewise Menzerna to be more complicated (many products) than just going with the 2 jescar products. Did keep Menz 2400 though but thinking perhaps Scholl S20 Black might supplant it as primary 'medium range' product that works a bit quicker.
The Jescar stuff I prefer over Menzerna as it wipes away cleaner, quicker.
Remember that these are the rsmblings of a non-pro...while the Flex is pretty self explanatory, I've still got a ways to go with my Rupes technique on all areas of a vehicle, likely impacting product effectiveness to some degree.
09-21-2017, 10:29 AM
#5
Supporting Vendor
Great write-up! Thank you for your time and dedication! 
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9801 Karmar Ct. New Albany, Ohio 43054
(614) 855-6855
Contact@esotericdetail.com
EsotericDetail.com
EsotericCarCare.com
ESOTERIC on YouTube
ESOTERIC Fine Auto Finishing - America's Premier Corvette Detailer
Detailing . Paint Protection Film . Protective Coatings . Car Care Product Sales . Training
HRE Wheels . Forgeline Wheels . BBS Wheels . Akrapovic Exhaust . Fabspeed Exhaust . KW Suspension
9801 Karmar Ct. New Albany, Ohio 43054
(614) 855-6855
Contact@esotericdetail.com
EsotericDetail.com
EsotericCarCare.com
ESOTERIC on YouTube
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BudgetPlan1 (09-21-2017)
09-21-2017, 12:16 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Can't thank you guys enough for all the help, support and advice along the way...unreal how much you've helped in ways that go beyond coatings.
Buying products is one thing (can get *most* of this stuff at many different vendors) but I know when I click 'Complete Order' on https://www.esotericcarcare.com/ I'm also getting the unparalleled product support that made you folks the world-class organization you are...
Thanks again...you've all been great, most enjoyable and helpful vendor I've dealt with in this space...and I think I've used pretty much most of them. Keep having fun and turning out the incredible cars you do, very enjoyable to watch.
KF
Buying products is one thing (can get *most* of this stuff at many different vendors) but I know when I click 'Complete Order' on https://www.esotericcarcare.com/ I'm also getting the unparalleled product support that made you folks the world-class organization you are...
Thanks again...you've all been great, most enjoyable and helpful vendor I've dealt with in this space...and I think I've used pretty much most of them. Keep having fun and turning out the incredible cars you do, very enjoyable to watch.
KF
Last edited by BudgetPlan1; 09-21-2017 at 10:37 PM.
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Esoteric Detail (09-21-2017)
09-21-2017, 09:09 PM
#9
Drifting
What is ’?
Last edited by joeybsyc; 09-21-2017 at 09:10 PM.
09-22-2017, 09:13 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Gonna use up my leftover Miyabi and ISM on this busted up co-workers car today. Flex 3401 gonna get some work...gonna try Scholl S20 Black and if that don't cut it, hello M101!
Last edited by BudgetPlan1; 09-22-2017 at 09:14 AM.
09-22-2017, 03:36 PM
#14
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Then, just for giggles, pulled out the Rupes LHR15 Mk 2 and gave their UHS pads/liquid a try...same result as above...finished nicely as above but couldn't reach down and ****** away deeper scratches.
Figrd may as well "go with what ya know" so screwed the Kamikaze Beast backing plate on the Rupes, grabbed a Megs Microfiber Cutting disc, dropped on some Megs D300 and went low and slow which easily reached the deeper stuff. Did leave some haze, which I've never had an issue with before, but since my dreams of one-stepping this pig had already died, not a big deal.
Finished off with Scholl S40 on a LC Crimson Hydrotech and it's as good as it's likely gonna get, which is pretty darn good for this old car.
Was gonna finish with Sonax Perfect Finish on yellow Rupes pad but I seem to be in a Scholls phase at the moment and I really like the S40.
4 passes on speed 4.5 with very little product and it's far better than I could ever get with Menz 3800 (or whatever it's called this week). Scholl seems to break down far quicker than Menz ever did, with a better finish in my eyes.
The car appears to be a 2nd gen Ford Focus with very few real curves on it so the Kami backing plate is gonna make this a much easier/quicker/effective ordeal.
For some reason summer decided to reappear and it's getting toasty so I didn't stop to take many pics.
09-22-2017, 05:27 PM
#16
3rd Gear
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Have you tried MD Ceramic Pro? These guys are telling it's one of the best: http://nanocareproducts.com/best-aut...ramic-coating/
09-22-2017, 10:41 PM
#17
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Have you tried MD Ceramic Pro? These guys are telling it's one of the best: http://nanocareproducts.com/best-aut...ramic-coating/
After running through all these products I've become wary of anything or anyone who simply declares a product THE BEST, especially when one (of many) factors that go into that proclamation is the very subjective topic of appearance.
In the climate I live in, self cleaning characteristics and water behavior are of equal importance as appearance...and I'd guess all coatings are nice and glossy. But what kind of glossy? Hard, sharp, candy gloss or a deeper, warmer, polarizing gloss?
A guy in Arizona who prefers a hard gloss, who rarely has to deal with rain on a hobby car driven occasionally is gonna have different needs than a guy from New Jersey who parks his daily driver outside all the time in a 4 season climate. No solitary product is THE BEST for both of them.
At first i looked towards things others said are The Best, but eventually it became clear what I considered important and to seek something out that may not be the mythical BEST but rather The Best For Me.
Fortunately I've found it...you know, for now anyway
Last edited by BudgetPlan1; 09-22-2017 at 10:42 PM.