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Cliff Notes Zaino - simple to use with Clear Seal and Z-8
Promotes what the paint manufacturer is trying to show(Pearls and Metallics) that make the finish beyond incredible
Daily driver issues - not good with bird stuff or water spots.
Not impervious to scratches
Low to Moderate Cost
Excellent for garage queens Ceramics - Incredible self cleaning
Impervious to most scratches
Excellent water beading and water runoff(hydrophobic, hate the word)
So slick nothing sticks to it
Very high cost
While BudgetPlan1 did his PHD dissertations, simply put Zaino has a much higher quality shine and brings out the manufacturer's paint qualities much better than the Ceramics.
I will still recommend Zaino over the Ceramics, based on the car and what the owner does with it.
It is true Zaino does not have the daily driver qualities of the Ceramics. Ceramics cannot be beat for that, BUT not being a daily driver, Zaino can bring out the qualities of the paint.. ie Pearls and Metallics, 200% over the Ceramics.It is a matter of understanding what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote and what products Zaino has to promote it.
you won;t beat a Ceramic for the qualities it has on a daily driver, they are simply awesome and I love the product. My test vehicle has 4 different products on it as a daily driver and even driven in inclement weather without washing it, still looks stunning
Yes we do, but we consider it an upgrade to the Clear Seal/Z-8 combo. On a Show Car Upgrade we do 3 coats of Z-2 or Z-5 based on color, with Z-8 in between, and top off with Clear Seal/Z-8.
I get where you are coming from and keep in mind, I have spent hours upon hours working with various Zaino products to get not just the best shine, that promotes the Pearl and Metallic look.
I have used Ceramic Pro, which I consider a mediocre shine, but the self cleaning and scratch resistance are next to none and the lifetime warranty is the best.
Kamikaze which by far out of the products out there that I have tried has a better shine. But does not match what I can do with Zaino. ISM has just a bit brighter shine than Miyabi, but over the long haul does not have the long lasting qualities of Miyabi
Gyeon, which is the same as Ceramic Pro, it has a nice shine but is missing the WOW factor my shop delivers with Zaino.
Won't get into the weirdness of applying as a pro installer, but these clowns are so artificial it is unbeleivable.
Feynlabs has the best shine and parallels what Zaino does as far as what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote.
I have my own personal car with every panel a different product on it.
When I show the car to my customers, the Zaino or Feynlab panel wins every time for quality.
I have tried several others, but they simply did not match up to the above 3.
DO NOT put Z-8 over a Ceramic coating. Use l Polish Angel High Gloss
or or Kamikaze Overcoat
These detail sprays are specific to Ceramic/Quarts coatings.
When you wash use a wash specifically for ceramic coatings. Autogeek has several.
The car washes have specific chemicals that not only preserve the ceramic coating, but increases the "hydrophobic" qualities, and I hate that word. Bottom line it helps with the self cleaning qualities of the ceramic, maintains the shine and other ceramic properties.
Regular car washes will destroy the self cleaning/hydrophobic qualities of the coating.
Grzldvt1,
the shine you describe with the Feynlabs....is it the self-healing or just the ceramic coat? The self-healing description says not to use on PPF. Just curious which you're using.
Grzldvt1,
the shine you describe with the Feynlabs....is it the self-healing or just the ceramic coat? The self-healing description says not to use on PPF. Just curious which you're using.
HEAL LITE, the "Ceramics" are available to the general public, the "HEAL" products are for professional installer. They have a specific product for PPF, as does Ceramic Pro.
What has impressed me, is in my discussions with the team at Feynlabs is they get what it takes to make the car become extraordinary in appearance.
I have seen it myself with their products.
Yes we do, but we consider it an upgrade to the Clear Seal/Z-8 combo. On a Show Car Upgrade we do 3 coats of Z-2 or Z-5 based on color, with Z-8 in between, and top off with Clear Seal/Z-8.
Thanks for the response and info. I always thought Z5 was more like a glaze and that Z2 would still be used.
HEAL LITE, the "Ceramics" are available to the general public, the "HEAL" products are for professional installer. They have a specific product for PPF, as does Ceramic Pro.
What has impressed me, is in my discussions with the team at Feynlabs is they get what it takes to make the car become extraordinary in appearance.
I have seen it myself with their products.
Is the Feynlabs ceramic, Heal Lite, harder to use for an amateur than Kamikaze or Gyeon?
So much great info in this thread. I've looking at additional protection for my C7 (new) and have been considering Suntek Ultimate. Can anyone comment on what the differences there are between a PPF such as Suntek Ultimate and the Ceramics discussed here?
So much great info in this thread. I've looking at additional protection for my C7 (new) and have been considering Suntek Ultimate. Can anyone comment on what the differences there are between a PPF such as Suntek Ultimate and the Ceramics discussed here?
I have Xpel on the front, hood, mirrors and rockers. Then I had Ceramic Pro plus applied to the entire car. The films are good at helping with rocks, etc. The ceramic creates a glossy, slippery finish; that makes maintenance easier.
I am new to this field of performing coatings on car finishes but decided to go all in. My job does not relate to detailing but is actually a bit more finicky when attention to detail is required so I had no issue with taking time to do the job right. I went with R1 coatings, supposedly been around for over 20 years, there are so many on the market now who knows what is the best. Anyway I wanted to do this myself as I do not trust anybody to do work on my car that I can do myself. It took me 3 weekends and lots of patience. My finish was in pretty good shape as I just purchased it from a Masaritti dealer and they did a hell of a job detailing it before sale (in fact took it to a car show and had to argue with judges that to was not a concourse car - under 10K talk the it had 12K and they said you mean 1.2K right?) LOL took home a trophy. Anyway still worked on the side some for some minor paint imperfections.
Applications was a bit difficult as you are instructed to put on (after all prep work to remove any wax/polish) and wait for it to "flash" looks like a rainbow effect in the paint. My temps here were in the lo 50s so I found out I had to let it sit a few more mins after flash. Doing small areas is key and when I found it going boring or tiresome would take a brake. Finally finishing, I found 2 small spots even with the care I took to wipe excess off had clouded over. I was able to buff out and re sequence the application.
I knew after only doing about half of the hood that this was going to be an amazing transformation and finally when I finished I was extremely satisfied. After letting it dry for 24 hours, I applied a second coat (probably not needed but it did seem to just add a little more to the finish.
I drove the car to work and when I got home was amazed at how little dirt was picked up compared to when I just had wax. The rear of the car under the license plate and around the exhaust was still pretty clean, it does repel dirt. Simply fantastic! There is a additional product that is sprayed of that rejuvenates the coating.
I still love to wax and am told a coat of wax would show even greater gloss, right now for a white car it is impressive, need to do some homework on what to use on top of the coating. I may be wrong but consideration needs to be taken here for chemical reactions to the wax/coating I would assume. I used up my first bottle of coating which was around 80 bucks and got another bottle. Today the wheels will come off for new brake pad install. I am cleaning the wheels and using the R1 on the wheels and calipers. I never would of thought I would not be using wax on my car anymore but it looks like that is exactly what is going to happen.
I have a '13 BLACK and I have used most cleaners / polishes like Zaino,Megs,Mothers, and others they all did a great job & provided fantastic shine & swirl free gloss, but I'm in Arizona so not much rain but A LOT of DUST !! so either I use a blower or california duster to remove the fine layer of dust (black shows everything) which leaves fine scratches so I'm going to do the ceramic coating next week I have all the necessary tools & products I'm hoping that most of the dust will just blow off & using the California duster will not leave those fine scratches
Is the Feynlabs ceramic, Heal Lite, harder to use for an amateur than Kamikaze or Gyeon?
One of the shortest for time to deal with it overt Kamikaze and Gyeon. You have about 15 minutes to level it, where Kamikaze and Gyeon has an hour+ and Kamikaze you 24 hours to level it with a very wet towel.
I suspect Feynlabs may have a 24 hour leveling time with a wet towel, but have not had to deal with it. So you bring up a good point and I will test it.
One of the things people need to realize is ceramics versus carnubas and polymers(Zaino), towels will get loaded up very quickly with product. Once they get loaded, you are just pushing it around and creating shadows/high spots. I will use 8 towels on a Corvette.
Fold the towel into quarters wipe down half the front fender, flip the towel and do the rest of the fender, unfold the towel to the next surface and do the opposite fender using both parts, open it up and tackle the hood doing 3 x 3 sections with a clean towel side.
Most people do not realize how a ceramic versus old school waxes load up a towel.. So each "section" needs a new towel surface.
Kamikaze and Gyeon are not water soluble(ie you can toss them into a bucket of water and the product will dilute allowing you to use the towels again), so the towels are toast for further ceramic work. Perfectly fine for other uses. Use one, let it sit for a few minutes then run water over it. The water will runoff just like it does on your hood.
Does this help?
Questions?
One of the shortest for time to deal with it overt Kamikaze and Gyeon. You have about 15 minutes to level it, where Kamikaze and Gyeon has an hour+ and Kamikaze you 24 hours to level it with a very wet towel.
I suspect Feynlabs may have a 24 hour leveling time with a wet towel, but have not had to deal with it. So you bring up a good point and I will test it.
One of the things people need to realize is ceramics versus carnubas and polymers(Zaino), towels will get loaded up very quickly with product. Once they get loaded, you are just pushing it around and creating shadows/high spots. I will use 8 towels on a Corvette.
Fold the towel into quarters wipe down half the front fender, flip the towel and do the rest of the fender, unfold the towel to the next surface and do the opposite fender using both parts, open it up and tackle the hood doing 3 x 3 sections with a clean towel side.
Most people do not realize how a ceramic versus old school waxes load up a towel.. So each "section" needs a new towel surface.
Kamikaze and Gyeon are not water soluble(ie you can toss them into a bucket of water and the product will dilute allowing you to use the towels again), so the towels are toast for further ceramic work. Perfectly fine for other uses. Use one, let it sit for a few minutes then run water over it. The water will runoff just like it does on your hood.
Does this help?
Questions?
Yes, helps a lot. Sorry for not responding sooner!
I've decided to let a pro put the ceramic on. Even though I've been compounding, polishing, and Zaino'ing my C5 and C6 for the past 14 years, now that I have a new C7, I have some other manual labor projects going on in the house (some wall boarding due to a water leak, for example) and some other general responsibilities. Nuff said. Plus the process seems a bit more complicated, so I decided to bite the bullet. He's using a top-of-the-line product unavailable to hobbyists, and the results from even half the process completed yesterday blew me away.
I'll post pictures over the weekend.
Here are the results of my 2017 GS after Envious Detailing here in Orange, CA, finished the following: wash, clay bar, compound polish, wash, prep for PPF, apply 3M clear bra to nose, both doors, and mirrors....then applied ceramic coating using Modesta BC04 on the paint and BC06 on the wheels. I highly recommend Envious Detailing if you're anywhere in SoCal! Eric Shuster is super nice, skilled, and never hesitated to answer my questions.
While he does make some valid points and generally does a decent job highlighting strengths and weaknesses of both approaches, his contention regarding 'permanent' coating products that require sanding for removal is a bit misleading.
Aside from a few pro-only products, removing a coating requires no more than normal compounding/polishing.
While I am an avowed coating-junkie I am also struggling with the best approach regarding coatings on a daily driver that will be subject to a harsh world. While the looks and self cleaning abilities of a good coating suit my needs quite well, what to do when the inevitable defect is discovered, like scratching around door handles from jewelry or a scuff here and there from loading trunk or other unfortunate careless incident.
Some coatings do not lend themselves to spot fixes and the question becomes how long I can live with the blemishes before I repolish and recoat the panel affected.
?
While he does make some valid points and generally does a decent job highlighting strengths and weaknesses of both approaches, his contention regarding 'permanent' coating products that require sanding for removal is a bit misleading.
Aside from a few pro-only products, removing a coating requires no more than normal compounding/polishing.
While I am an avowed coating-junkie I am also struggling with the best approach regarding coatings on a daily driver that will be subject to a harsh world. While the looks and self cleaning abilities of a good coating suit my needs quite well, what to do when the inevitable defect is discovered, like scratching around door handles from jewelry or a scuff here and there from loading trunk or other unfortunate careless incident.
Some coatings do not lend themselves to spot fixes and the question becomes how long I can live with the blemishes before I repolish and recoat the panel affected.
?
Good points. And since I DID use a pro-only product, applied by a pro, I also wonder what to do if it needs touching up or even when the inevitable scratches/swirls occur....although Modesta is supposed to be one of the best in the business (10 year guarantee, although what that means and how valid it is when they question about where it's parked, how you maintained it, and what "weathering" has taken place, is yet to be seen--who knows. Still, it's supposed to be among the hardest coatings). I was told I can lightly and I mean very lightly polish it using a black foam pad. When the time comes, I'll try an "inconspicuous area" (where are those, anyway! LOL).
03-18-2018, 08:10 AM
so I'm going to do the ceramic coating next week I have all the necessary tools & products I'm hoping that most of the dust will just blow off & using the California duster will not leave those fine scratches
