School me on coatings, please
03-04-2018, 01:56 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
School me on coatings, please
My detail guy is really pushing for me to add some kind of quartz or magic treatment, and I see a lot of it used here on the forums. Thing is, I don't know if my car is a good candidate for it:
- Under 2500 miles per year
- Garaged
- Driven on nice days only
- Mostly just dusted, rarely ever washed, no machine washes
- Very minimal track use (and taped up when I do)
Since I'd still have it buffed and polished each year anyway, it's not clear to me that I'm picking up a lot of protection.
What's the benefit, if any, for a car that lives a fairly protected life to begin with?
My car is red. I'm curious, though, if it really helps prevent swirl marks on black. Is the treatment really tougher than the hardened and catalyzed clearcoat that's on modern cars?
- Under 2500 miles per year
- Garaged
- Driven on nice days only
- Mostly just dusted, rarely ever washed, no machine washes
- Very minimal track use (and taped up when I do)
Since I'd still have it buffed and polished each year anyway, it's not clear to me that I'm picking up a lot of protection.
What's the benefit, if any, for a car that lives a fairly protected life to begin with?
My car is red. I'm curious, though, if it really helps prevent swirl marks on black. Is the treatment really tougher than the hardened and catalyzed clearcoat that's on modern cars?
Popular Reply
03-06-2018, 05:53 AM
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: NE OH
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Why I like coatings
I`ve messed around with a pretty fair amount of consumer level coatings in the past 18 months including:
Kamikaze Miyabi
Kamikaze ISM
22ple HPC
Cquartz Classic/110
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic
McKees 37 Paint Coating V1
McKees 37 Paint Coating V2
Gyeon Prime
Gyeon Mohs
Gyeon Can Coat
Gyeon Syncro
Gyeon One
Pearl Nano
IGL Quartz (test panel sample only)
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V1
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2
Feynlab Ceramic
On the shelf: Gyeon Pure, Nanolex Si3D
IGL Premier
Kamikaze Overcoat
Gtechniq C2V3
22ple VS1 Final Coat
22ple Finitura
Gyeon Cure
HydroSilex Recharge
Nanolex SiFinish
TAC Systems Moonlight
Some were on personal cars, most were on fleet vehicles at work. All were decon’d/clayed/compounded/polished as necessary using a variety of machines (Flex 3401, Rupes LHR15 Mk2, Rupes LHR75 Mini, Griots Garage 6” DA), a variety of pads (LC flat, LC Hydrotech, LC Force Hybrid, LC Thin Pros, Rupes, Megs Microfiber discs, B & S Uro Cell, B & S Uro Tec, Scholls Spider Pads. Mostly for Flex was the LC Force Hybrids and usually on Rupes the Megs microfiber discs and Rupes foam pads) as well as a variety of compounds and polishes (Wolfgang Uber Compound, Total Swirl Remover, Finishing Glaze, Menzerna FG400, 2400, 3500 & 3800; Rupes Blue, yellow and white compounds/polishes, Sonax Perfect Finish, Jescar Compound and Finishing Polish, Scholl Concepts S20 Black and S40, Meguiars M101, M205 and D300).
Fleet vehicles were completed and then released into the wild, none have been washed since coating application. Most sit outside nearly all the time, likely average 20K miles since application. They ranged from 2016 Ford Transit Exteneded Vans (man, those things SUCKED to correct), Ford E250 panel vans from 2008 thru 2014 and Ford Ranger pickup trucks; all either bright red or a burgundy metallic color.
Our personal cars are a 2016 Honda Civic Coupe in Aegean Blue Metallic, a 2016 Subaru WRX in Crystal Black Silica Metallic (sold 1 month after doing the whole Kamikaze combo on it…oops!), a 2017 Honda Accord V6 Coupe in black, and a 2004 Corvette in, well…black, non metallic. They get washed when dirty using Gyeon Foam at 1:10 dilution w/ SunJoe SPX3001 pressure washer, MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, Gyeon Bathe, 1-bucket wash (gasp!), flood rinsed and then dried with platinum pluffle towels, using Kamikaze Overcoat as a drying aid about once a month.
As for my experience, well…perhaps ‘marginally functional garage hobbyist’ is the best way to describe it. Picked up a DA for the first time about 18 months ago when I bought the Subaru and realized just looking at it wrong would leave a swirl/mark. That’s when I began looking into coatings, first doing most of our cars with WG Uber Ceramic in Spring 2016. First use of Kamikaze was Miyabi + ISM + Overcoat in October 2016; added Infinity Wax to the mix in Spring 2017.
While all were solid products and there were really no disappointments in the bunch, I found nothing that gives me the satisfaction and comfort level of the Kamikaze products.
We`ve had it (Miyabi/ISM/Overcoat and added Infinity and Stance in Spring 2017) on one of our daily drivers since 10/2016 and our auto usage habits, local environmental conditions and maintenance routines haven`t fazed it one bit since application. It just always looks great to my eye, holds up, protects and keeps itself clean with minimal effort. It made it thru daily use in the NE Ohio winter without any noticeable degradation whatsoever and a good summer rainstorm is akin to a free car wash with this stuff; self-cleaning is simply without compare.
Does that make it the best consumer level coating in all the land? Really can`t answer that because there are so many individual and somewhat subjective variables involved in a statement such as that...but I can say that for ME, yes, it is the best coating in my world. The stuff just plain works.
Since this is all somewhat of a hobby for me, with the added benefit of incredible protection and appearance, at the end of the day it has to be fun too. The whole Kamikaze `experience` has been just too much fun for me to continue to look for the next greatest `thing`...every time I look at the cars I find some new nuance, smile and am reminded of all of the enjoyment that went into it.
And yes, I probably put way too much thought into It but that`s what hobbies are for, no?
Put it all together and this is what works best for me so I`ve finally got all our cars wrapped up with it and will now just sit back and enjoy its benefits for a while.
Regarding the individual products, *my* thoughts follow, totally subjective, tailored to what I want out of a coating, namely:
1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don’t like waterspots. I like clean cars but don’t like cleaning cars.
2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don’t wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our Corvette during the Zaino years. Also has to last cuz I don’t wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.
3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.
Regarding the individual coatings I used while trying to find something that topped the Kamikaze products, I’ll offer up the most subjective of opinions below:
Cquartz Classic: Applied in January 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended Van. It’s a solid product, especially given the generally low cost. Application is easy, the looks are good. Finished application is not especially slick, so I topped it with Gyeon Cure. It has remained nice looking, resisted permanent water spotting. A solid, middle of the pack product that likely won’t disappoint. Nothing extremely notable about it to me, however.
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic: Applied in Spring 2016 to 2 of our personal cars, a 2016 black metallic WRX (daily driver all year long, garaged at night, likely 17K miles a year) and 2004 black Corvette (Spring/Summer/Fall usage, stored in winter, maybe 7500 miles a year, does see rain). Being stored thru the winter, the Corvette made it to Spring of 2017 in good shape with the WG Uber; the WRX, however, had completely failed on the vertical panels. Even decon and slight clay could not restore coating properties. IMO, this product, wheil looking good and easy to apply, is just not durable and given the relatively high cost, not among the best choices for me, all things considered.
McKees 37 Paint Coating V1: For the cost, this one surprised me. Used it on a friend’s car that gets occasional washing, daily driven, about 5000 miles year-round. Nice looks, easy maintenance when combined with another SiO2 add-on like or Gyeon Wetcoat or Cure. It’s still doing nicely after application in Summer 2016, generally maintained with Gyeon Wetcoat on occasion. On its own, maybe it wouldn’t last as long but I cant say for sure
McKees 37 Paint Coating V2: Onlye have a month or 2 on the vehicle I applied it to. Actually, I liked V1 a bit better. V2 flashes quicker and is tacker on removal.
Gyeon Prime: It’s nice, easy to use and has some good initial water behavior. Good glossy looks, I’d place it a bit below Cquartz. It just really didn’t do much for me.
Gyeon Mohs: This is a nice product, among the best at self-cleaning since applied to a fleet Ford Ranger in February 2016. Has always looked clean despite never having been washed since application. Beading has fallen off a bit but it still looks clean, shiny and to a none-ocd person, would look freshly washed. Seems to resist marring better than some of the others.
GYeon Syncro: Have very high hopes for this one, applied about a month ago to a new vehicle. The Skin component adds to what the Mohs base layer lacked, i.e. slickness and water behavior. Very easy to apply, nice gloss. Time will tell how it holds up
Gyeon One: Th results were nice, but application was the stickiest once it hit the paint that I've ever used. Forgiving with respect to the amount of time you have to buff off missed high spots but very arduous removing/buffing.
Gyeon CanCoat: Water behavior, appearance and self-cleaning are on par with a ‘full fledged’ coating product and in the right situation, a product like this might even be a preferred solution for a vehicle/owner who is somewhat less OCD-ish or unwilling to invest the time and cost in a full correction/coating job for their vehicle. Maintained via wash with Gyeon Bathe+ on a somewhat regular basis, or post-wash with Gyeon WetCoat and I’ll bet the longevity exceeds the claimed 6 months. Add Gyeon Cure on occasion and it’ll likely stretch longer according to some accounts I’ve read. I could also see this as being an economical and effective product to use for those who do not wish to spend the time and money prepping and applying more ‘complete’ coating solution. Prep and perhaps a light polish once a year, a CanCoat application or two over that year and you’re getting the protection, self-cleaning and appearance properties of a coating without the more significant investment of time and money a more ‘semi-permanent’ coating would involve, especially for the casual DIY’er. In fact, given the low cost of CanCoat, I can see it being a viable replacement for a sealant if you like or want the look, feel, protection and self-cleaning properties of a coating. It’s actually much easier to apply than most sealants (for me anyway) as well.
Pearl Nano: Base Coat/Top Coat system. I did a bright red Ford Ranger in this, never been washed since application in Feb/March 2016. Gotta kinda jump thru some hoops to get this stuff, did not excel in self-cleaning but was decent. Given the pricing (not outrageous, but in the 22ple HPC range for Base/Top 50ml), not something I’d be interesting in using again. It’s a nice product but not notable enough to continue with when easier, equal performing choices are available. Will say that their glass coating IS nice, worked better for me than Gyeon View or Kamikaze Intenso.
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light: I really wanted to like this; I like the name, the packaging and the company and upon initial application (topped with Liquid Crystal C2V3) it darkened the bright red paint of the 2014 Ford E250 van I used it on. Nice, deep, rich gloss, easy application. Unfortunately, once released into the wild it was prone to water spotting (easily removed) and was probably the worst of all I tried in self-cleaning abilities. Oddly enough, about 3 months in it started keeping itself cleaner with no outside intervention except for Mother Nature and her rain. Have seen evidence that if topped with EXO, it’s a whole ‘nuther animal, with incredible hydrophobic properties which would significantly aid in self cleaning abilities.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V1: I’d put it in the same class as Cquartz as far as performance goes. Longevity began to drop off as far as self-cleaning goes, but not to Gtechniq CSL levels. It’s good and I’ll bet if topped with an SiO2 booster, would amp up performance. The looks on a metallic burgundy paint in the sun was fantastic, really brought out the metallic.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2: At the end of the day, I’m thinking that if The Gloss Shop Ceramic coating V2 has ‘legs’ and the durability, self cleaning and hydrophobic effects hold up over the long term, it’s *near* the same league as 22ple HPC at about 1/3 of the cost. It has a ‘substantial’ feel to it during application and leaves a pleasing feel to the paint after application; the look is deep and pleasing without being retina-burning in terms of some coatings, hard-gloss look. Again, if it holds up and reaches near the durability claimed, they really have something special here at an unbelievable low cost. Given the suggestion of 1-coat only (a’ la Kamikaze ISM) a 50ml bottle would easily cover two somewhat large vehicles, including Trim, knocking it down to a cost of $25 per vehicle for a solid, good looking and (hopefully) well performing Ceramic Coating. Being an American-made, America- developed product that gives high performance at a low cost would certainly make it stand out and even stand above some more mainstream coatings.
22ple HPC: This was a favorite and for a while, I thought it was gonna unseat the Kamikaze as my favorite. Incredible gloss, most of any I used, the hard, candy gloss appearance. Great self-cleaning abilities, even 6 months after application with no washing/topping or anything. Application is bizarrely easy, very forgiving. It flashes much like a wax or sealant when time to remove so less guesswork there. I applied at the end of March 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended van, bright red, and it immediately gave that cliché’d Molten Glass look to the paint.
The one downside with the HPC is that while they recommend multiple layers, they also recommend 24hrs curing between layers; that can be kinda inconvenient.
It was so nice that I used it on the 2017 black Honda Acccord Coupe I traded in the WRX on. Applied around July 4 to the Accord, it sure looked like a winner…until I pulled it in the garage next to the recently completed Corvette (Kamikaze Miyabi x2, ISM x1, Infinity Wax and Overcoat). The Accord with the 22ple HPC still looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a foot deep. Unfortunately, the Corvette with the Kamikaze looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a MILE deep. Goodbye 22ple, hello Kamikaze on the black Accord.
Feynlab Ceramic: I gave this a shot on the Corvette in between removing 2016’s WG Uber and applying the Kamikaze. It was crazy forgiving in application, long window between apply/remove and left a sharp glossy finish that was quite nice. Unfortunately, the self-cleaning and water behavior was poor, leaving significant water spots after a rainstorm. Again, easily removed with wash but still…not in Kamikaze league in that respect.
Feynlab Ceramic + TopCoat: Very nice, look can best be described as 'brilliant' gloss. No longevity info yet, applied relatively recently.
IGL Quartz: Got a sample, have it sitting on the hood of a fleet vehicle next to 22ple HPC and so far, no differences can be noted. Nice to apply, though...a very 'rich' feeling during application. Nice gloss, good self-cleaning. Really irrelevant unless you're an authorized installer as they don't sell to public.
Still have Nanolex Si3D and Gyeon Pure on the shelf to try.
So, what conclusions have I come to after spending all that time (and money) auditioning all those coatings? Well, considering the climate I live in, the looks I like and the characteristics of coating that I consider primary, I’ve kinda settled on the below for folks who want their car coated; I broken into the top, money is no object choice and then the others at number 2a, b & c depending on conditions, color, appearance and durability desired.
1. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM x 1, (Infinity Wax optional, just gives a really nice, subtle ‘relaxed high gloss’ to the finish) and maintain with Kamikaze Overcoat. Looks are a mixture of high gloss, deep, warm, rich glow and the self cleaning abilities are beyond compare. Coming up on the 1 year anniversary of application to our daily driven, sits outside 8 months a year, metallic blue Honda Civic and the thing just *always* looks great. Sure, it gets a bit dirty and nose to paint you will see the dirt but the water spots after rain seem to shrink and disappear before spotting, taking much of the surface contamination with them. Bird bombs come off with little to no effort/pressure, even if dried by the sun, leaving no mark. Being a Kamikaze fan, I`m sure no one is surprised by this coming from me.
2a. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, maintained with Overcoat. High gloss, hard candy type look. Great self cleaning and at $90 for 30ml, pretty good bargain. Would use on dark cars that don’t wanna go for the whole Kamikaze enchilada. Easy application, 5-15 minute window between application/removal given appropriate climate/temperature. Just so very easy to use.
2b. 22ple HPC. Much like the Miyabi alone, this high-gloss choice is good for lighter colored cars. Did a white Honda CRV in this and it really brought out the subtle metallic/pearl character of the paint. More $$ than Miyabi but nearly as stellar at self cleaning goes.
2c. Gyeon Mohs but will be supplanted in this position should Gyeon Syncro perform as expected. Perhaps the best all-around choice for daily drivers at a reasonable cost. Great self-cleaning, and solid protection. I left a bird bomb on the hood for a week or so, backing in the hot summer sun and when it rained and removed itself, it left no mark. I think it’s one of the ‘harder’ coatings by reputation and I saw nothing that discredits that claim. I have seen that topping this with Gyeon Can Coat can add some longevity and amp up the gloss into ‘hard candy’ territory as opposed to it’s native deep, warm glow type gloss. Drop some Gyeon Booster (Fluorine based top coat) on it to extend life and enhance self cleaning and hydrophobic properties.
Its been fun and interesting for sure, no regrets...
Given the limited use of your vehicle and it's environment it might just be that you don't need a full on coating and something like GYeon CanCoat, applied twice a year would be enough. It's got great candy gloss, ridiculously easy to apply and somewhat inexpensive.
If you did want to step up to a more 'proper' coating, Kamikaze is very nice. If you prefer a harder, sharper gloss, 2 layers of Miyabi would fit the bill. If you prefer a deeper, warmer gloss, 1 coat of ISM would do the trick. Maintain each with Kamikaze Overcoat and you'll get a couple of years out of it for sure.
If you prefer a 'molten' glass look, not quite the depth of Kamikaze ISM but a bit softer high gloss than Miyabi, 22ple HPC would be an excellent choice...more of a 'fluid' gloss. Bizarrely easy application.
In the end, it's all every subjective. If you lined up all the coatings on clean, equally prepped, identical vehicles I may be able to identify 10% correctly in the bright sun, based on appearance alone. If it started raining, I could likely ID another 40-50% and if we let the water dry in the sun, maybe another 10-15% could be ID'd. Maybe. On a good day. With a little bit of luck. Perhaps.
Kamikaze Miyabi
Kamikaze ISM
22ple HPC
Cquartz Classic/110
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic
McKees 37 Paint Coating V1
McKees 37 Paint Coating V2
Gyeon Prime
Gyeon Mohs
Gyeon Can Coat
Gyeon Syncro
Gyeon One
Pearl Nano
IGL Quartz (test panel sample only)
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V1
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2
Feynlab Ceramic
On the shelf: Gyeon Pure, Nanolex Si3D
IGL Premier
Kamikaze Overcoat
Gtechniq C2V3
22ple VS1 Final Coat
22ple Finitura
Gyeon Cure
HydroSilex Recharge
Nanolex SiFinish
TAC Systems Moonlight
Some were on personal cars, most were on fleet vehicles at work. All were decon’d/clayed/compounded/polished as necessary using a variety of machines (Flex 3401, Rupes LHR15 Mk2, Rupes LHR75 Mini, Griots Garage 6” DA), a variety of pads (LC flat, LC Hydrotech, LC Force Hybrid, LC Thin Pros, Rupes, Megs Microfiber discs, B & S Uro Cell, B & S Uro Tec, Scholls Spider Pads. Mostly for Flex was the LC Force Hybrids and usually on Rupes the Megs microfiber discs and Rupes foam pads) as well as a variety of compounds and polishes (Wolfgang Uber Compound, Total Swirl Remover, Finishing Glaze, Menzerna FG400, 2400, 3500 & 3800; Rupes Blue, yellow and white compounds/polishes, Sonax Perfect Finish, Jescar Compound and Finishing Polish, Scholl Concepts S20 Black and S40, Meguiars M101, M205 and D300).
Fleet vehicles were completed and then released into the wild, none have been washed since coating application. Most sit outside nearly all the time, likely average 20K miles since application. They ranged from 2016 Ford Transit Exteneded Vans (man, those things SUCKED to correct), Ford E250 panel vans from 2008 thru 2014 and Ford Ranger pickup trucks; all either bright red or a burgundy metallic color.
Our personal cars are a 2016 Honda Civic Coupe in Aegean Blue Metallic, a 2016 Subaru WRX in Crystal Black Silica Metallic (sold 1 month after doing the whole Kamikaze combo on it…oops!), a 2017 Honda Accord V6 Coupe in black, and a 2004 Corvette in, well…black, non metallic. They get washed when dirty using Gyeon Foam at 1:10 dilution w/ SunJoe SPX3001 pressure washer, MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, Gyeon Bathe, 1-bucket wash (gasp!), flood rinsed and then dried with platinum pluffle towels, using Kamikaze Overcoat as a drying aid about once a month.
As for my experience, well…perhaps ‘marginally functional garage hobbyist’ is the best way to describe it. Picked up a DA for the first time about 18 months ago when I bought the Subaru and realized just looking at it wrong would leave a swirl/mark. That’s when I began looking into coatings, first doing most of our cars with WG Uber Ceramic in Spring 2016. First use of Kamikaze was Miyabi + ISM + Overcoat in October 2016; added Infinity Wax to the mix in Spring 2017.
While all were solid products and there were really no disappointments in the bunch, I found nothing that gives me the satisfaction and comfort level of the Kamikaze products.
We`ve had it (Miyabi/ISM/Overcoat and added Infinity and Stance in Spring 2017) on one of our daily drivers since 10/2016 and our auto usage habits, local environmental conditions and maintenance routines haven`t fazed it one bit since application. It just always looks great to my eye, holds up, protects and keeps itself clean with minimal effort. It made it thru daily use in the NE Ohio winter without any noticeable degradation whatsoever and a good summer rainstorm is akin to a free car wash with this stuff; self-cleaning is simply without compare.
Does that make it the best consumer level coating in all the land? Really can`t answer that because there are so many individual and somewhat subjective variables involved in a statement such as that...but I can say that for ME, yes, it is the best coating in my world. The stuff just plain works.
Since this is all somewhat of a hobby for me, with the added benefit of incredible protection and appearance, at the end of the day it has to be fun too. The whole Kamikaze `experience` has been just too much fun for me to continue to look for the next greatest `thing`...every time I look at the cars I find some new nuance, smile and am reminded of all of the enjoyment that went into it.
And yes, I probably put way too much thought into It but that`s what hobbies are for, no?
Put it all together and this is what works best for me so I`ve finally got all our cars wrapped up with it and will now just sit back and enjoy its benefits for a while.
Regarding the individual products, *my* thoughts follow, totally subjective, tailored to what I want out of a coating, namely:
1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don’t like waterspots. I like clean cars but don’t like cleaning cars.
2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don’t wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our Corvette during the Zaino years. Also has to last cuz I don’t wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.
3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.
Regarding the individual coatings I used while trying to find something that topped the Kamikaze products, I’ll offer up the most subjective of opinions below:
Cquartz Classic: Applied in January 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended Van. It’s a solid product, especially given the generally low cost. Application is easy, the looks are good. Finished application is not especially slick, so I topped it with Gyeon Cure. It has remained nice looking, resisted permanent water spotting. A solid, middle of the pack product that likely won’t disappoint. Nothing extremely notable about it to me, however.
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic: Applied in Spring 2016 to 2 of our personal cars, a 2016 black metallic WRX (daily driver all year long, garaged at night, likely 17K miles a year) and 2004 black Corvette (Spring/Summer/Fall usage, stored in winter, maybe 7500 miles a year, does see rain). Being stored thru the winter, the Corvette made it to Spring of 2017 in good shape with the WG Uber; the WRX, however, had completely failed on the vertical panels. Even decon and slight clay could not restore coating properties. IMO, this product, wheil looking good and easy to apply, is just not durable and given the relatively high cost, not among the best choices for me, all things considered.
McKees 37 Paint Coating V1: For the cost, this one surprised me. Used it on a friend’s car that gets occasional washing, daily driven, about 5000 miles year-round. Nice looks, easy maintenance when combined with another SiO2 add-on like or Gyeon Wetcoat or Cure. It’s still doing nicely after application in Summer 2016, generally maintained with Gyeon Wetcoat on occasion. On its own, maybe it wouldn’t last as long but I cant say for sure
McKees 37 Paint Coating V2: Onlye have a month or 2 on the vehicle I applied it to. Actually, I liked V1 a bit better. V2 flashes quicker and is tacker on removal.
Gyeon Prime: It’s nice, easy to use and has some good initial water behavior. Good glossy looks, I’d place it a bit below Cquartz. It just really didn’t do much for me.
Gyeon Mohs: This is a nice product, among the best at self-cleaning since applied to a fleet Ford Ranger in February 2016. Has always looked clean despite never having been washed since application. Beading has fallen off a bit but it still looks clean, shiny and to a none-ocd person, would look freshly washed. Seems to resist marring better than some of the others.
GYeon Syncro: Have very high hopes for this one, applied about a month ago to a new vehicle. The Skin component adds to what the Mohs base layer lacked, i.e. slickness and water behavior. Very easy to apply, nice gloss. Time will tell how it holds up
Gyeon One: Th results were nice, but application was the stickiest once it hit the paint that I've ever used. Forgiving with respect to the amount of time you have to buff off missed high spots but very arduous removing/buffing.
Gyeon CanCoat: Water behavior, appearance and self-cleaning are on par with a ‘full fledged’ coating product and in the right situation, a product like this might even be a preferred solution for a vehicle/owner who is somewhat less OCD-ish or unwilling to invest the time and cost in a full correction/coating job for their vehicle. Maintained via wash with Gyeon Bathe+ on a somewhat regular basis, or post-wash with Gyeon WetCoat and I’ll bet the longevity exceeds the claimed 6 months. Add Gyeon Cure on occasion and it’ll likely stretch longer according to some accounts I’ve read. I could also see this as being an economical and effective product to use for those who do not wish to spend the time and money prepping and applying more ‘complete’ coating solution. Prep and perhaps a light polish once a year, a CanCoat application or two over that year and you’re getting the protection, self-cleaning and appearance properties of a coating without the more significant investment of time and money a more ‘semi-permanent’ coating would involve, especially for the casual DIY’er. In fact, given the low cost of CanCoat, I can see it being a viable replacement for a sealant if you like or want the look, feel, protection and self-cleaning properties of a coating. It’s actually much easier to apply than most sealants (for me anyway) as well.
Pearl Nano: Base Coat/Top Coat system. I did a bright red Ford Ranger in this, never been washed since application in Feb/March 2016. Gotta kinda jump thru some hoops to get this stuff, did not excel in self-cleaning but was decent. Given the pricing (not outrageous, but in the 22ple HPC range for Base/Top 50ml), not something I’d be interesting in using again. It’s a nice product but not notable enough to continue with when easier, equal performing choices are available. Will say that their glass coating IS nice, worked better for me than Gyeon View or Kamikaze Intenso.
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light: I really wanted to like this; I like the name, the packaging and the company and upon initial application (topped with Liquid Crystal C2V3) it darkened the bright red paint of the 2014 Ford E250 van I used it on. Nice, deep, rich gloss, easy application. Unfortunately, once released into the wild it was prone to water spotting (easily removed) and was probably the worst of all I tried in self-cleaning abilities. Oddly enough, about 3 months in it started keeping itself cleaner with no outside intervention except for Mother Nature and her rain. Have seen evidence that if topped with EXO, it’s a whole ‘nuther animal, with incredible hydrophobic properties which would significantly aid in self cleaning abilities.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V1: I’d put it in the same class as Cquartz as far as performance goes. Longevity began to drop off as far as self-cleaning goes, but not to Gtechniq CSL levels. It’s good and I’ll bet if topped with an SiO2 booster, would amp up performance. The looks on a metallic burgundy paint in the sun was fantastic, really brought out the metallic.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2: At the end of the day, I’m thinking that if The Gloss Shop Ceramic coating V2 has ‘legs’ and the durability, self cleaning and hydrophobic effects hold up over the long term, it’s *near* the same league as 22ple HPC at about 1/3 of the cost. It has a ‘substantial’ feel to it during application and leaves a pleasing feel to the paint after application; the look is deep and pleasing without being retina-burning in terms of some coatings, hard-gloss look. Again, if it holds up and reaches near the durability claimed, they really have something special here at an unbelievable low cost. Given the suggestion of 1-coat only (a’ la Kamikaze ISM) a 50ml bottle would easily cover two somewhat large vehicles, including Trim, knocking it down to a cost of $25 per vehicle for a solid, good looking and (hopefully) well performing Ceramic Coating. Being an American-made, America- developed product that gives high performance at a low cost would certainly make it stand out and even stand above some more mainstream coatings.
22ple HPC: This was a favorite and for a while, I thought it was gonna unseat the Kamikaze as my favorite. Incredible gloss, most of any I used, the hard, candy gloss appearance. Great self-cleaning abilities, even 6 months after application with no washing/topping or anything. Application is bizarrely easy, very forgiving. It flashes much like a wax or sealant when time to remove so less guesswork there. I applied at the end of March 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended van, bright red, and it immediately gave that cliché’d Molten Glass look to the paint.
The one downside with the HPC is that while they recommend multiple layers, they also recommend 24hrs curing between layers; that can be kinda inconvenient.
It was so nice that I used it on the 2017 black Honda Acccord Coupe I traded in the WRX on. Applied around July 4 to the Accord, it sure looked like a winner…until I pulled it in the garage next to the recently completed Corvette (Kamikaze Miyabi x2, ISM x1, Infinity Wax and Overcoat). The Accord with the 22ple HPC still looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a foot deep. Unfortunately, the Corvette with the Kamikaze looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a MILE deep. Goodbye 22ple, hello Kamikaze on the black Accord.
Feynlab Ceramic: I gave this a shot on the Corvette in between removing 2016’s WG Uber and applying the Kamikaze. It was crazy forgiving in application, long window between apply/remove and left a sharp glossy finish that was quite nice. Unfortunately, the self-cleaning and water behavior was poor, leaving significant water spots after a rainstorm. Again, easily removed with wash but still…not in Kamikaze league in that respect.
Feynlab Ceramic + TopCoat: Very nice, look can best be described as 'brilliant' gloss. No longevity info yet, applied relatively recently.
IGL Quartz: Got a sample, have it sitting on the hood of a fleet vehicle next to 22ple HPC and so far, no differences can be noted. Nice to apply, though...a very 'rich' feeling during application. Nice gloss, good self-cleaning. Really irrelevant unless you're an authorized installer as they don't sell to public.
Still have Nanolex Si3D and Gyeon Pure on the shelf to try.
So, what conclusions have I come to after spending all that time (and money) auditioning all those coatings? Well, considering the climate I live in, the looks I like and the characteristics of coating that I consider primary, I’ve kinda settled on the below for folks who want their car coated; I broken into the top, money is no object choice and then the others at number 2a, b & c depending on conditions, color, appearance and durability desired.
1. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM x 1, (Infinity Wax optional, just gives a really nice, subtle ‘relaxed high gloss’ to the finish) and maintain with Kamikaze Overcoat. Looks are a mixture of high gloss, deep, warm, rich glow and the self cleaning abilities are beyond compare. Coming up on the 1 year anniversary of application to our daily driven, sits outside 8 months a year, metallic blue Honda Civic and the thing just *always* looks great. Sure, it gets a bit dirty and nose to paint you will see the dirt but the water spots after rain seem to shrink and disappear before spotting, taking much of the surface contamination with them. Bird bombs come off with little to no effort/pressure, even if dried by the sun, leaving no mark. Being a Kamikaze fan, I`m sure no one is surprised by this coming from me.
2a. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, maintained with Overcoat. High gloss, hard candy type look. Great self cleaning and at $90 for 30ml, pretty good bargain. Would use on dark cars that don’t wanna go for the whole Kamikaze enchilada. Easy application, 5-15 minute window between application/removal given appropriate climate/temperature. Just so very easy to use.
2b. 22ple HPC. Much like the Miyabi alone, this high-gloss choice is good for lighter colored cars. Did a white Honda CRV in this and it really brought out the subtle metallic/pearl character of the paint. More $$ than Miyabi but nearly as stellar at self cleaning goes.
2c. Gyeon Mohs but will be supplanted in this position should Gyeon Syncro perform as expected. Perhaps the best all-around choice for daily drivers at a reasonable cost. Great self-cleaning, and solid protection. I left a bird bomb on the hood for a week or so, backing in the hot summer sun and when it rained and removed itself, it left no mark. I think it’s one of the ‘harder’ coatings by reputation and I saw nothing that discredits that claim. I have seen that topping this with Gyeon Can Coat can add some longevity and amp up the gloss into ‘hard candy’ territory as opposed to it’s native deep, warm glow type gloss. Drop some Gyeon Booster (Fluorine based top coat) on it to extend life and enhance self cleaning and hydrophobic properties.
Its been fun and interesting for sure, no regrets...
Given the limited use of your vehicle and it's environment it might just be that you don't need a full on coating and something like GYeon CanCoat, applied twice a year would be enough. It's got great candy gloss, ridiculously easy to apply and somewhat inexpensive.
If you did want to step up to a more 'proper' coating, Kamikaze is very nice. If you prefer a harder, sharper gloss, 2 layers of Miyabi would fit the bill. If you prefer a deeper, warmer gloss, 1 coat of ISM would do the trick. Maintain each with Kamikaze Overcoat and you'll get a couple of years out of it for sure.
If you prefer a 'molten' glass look, not quite the depth of Kamikaze ISM but a bit softer high gloss than Miyabi, 22ple HPC would be an excellent choice...more of a 'fluid' gloss. Bizarrely easy application.
In the end, it's all every subjective. If you lined up all the coatings on clean, equally prepped, identical vehicles I may be able to identify 10% correctly in the bright sun, based on appearance alone. If it started raining, I could likely ID another 40-50% and if we let the water dry in the sun, maybe another 10-15% could be ID'd. Maybe. On a good day. With a little bit of luck. Perhaps.
03-04-2018, 02:57 PM
#2
Ceramic is harder and more durable than something like Zaino. I think Zaino (plus z-8) gives a better gloss, and many folks on pro detailer forums agree. You have to apply Zaino 1-2x per year for your use but it’s pretty easy. Ceramic is harder to apply, but if you get swirl marks or a minor defect, ceramic is difficult to remove to fix the defect. Ceramic will not protect against dings and scratches. My use is 5k per year, garaged. I considered ceramic but chose Zaino. I also should add I would’ve done ceramic myself for a cost of about $100-150.
Last edited by red62vette; 03-04-2018 at 03:17 PM.
03-04-2018, 03:13 PM
#3
I've been quoted anywhere from $3,250.00 to $6,000.00 for a full application of Xpel Ultimate to my new C7 vert, by authorized applicators. Ya think there might be some overcharging (snake oil pricing) going on in that coatings-community? -Clearly......I'm in the wrong profit margins business, when a guy in a garage can get $6K in two days applying film on a Corvette........
.
Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 03-04-2018 at 03:16 PM. Reason: sp
03-05-2018, 07:50 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
i'm repeating myself but used zaino for a long time and still like it . while messing with other products stumbled upon adams rinseless car wash and the cars have never been shinier nor had water bead better . i've thought about ceramics but can't justify the price and don't think i care to do it on my own . i'll probably never bother with zaino again because i see no benefit when comparing it to washing with the adams . . . peace
03-05-2018, 07:18 PM
#5
Former Vendor
There is a lot of good info and video in this link that you can check out.
Feel free to ask any question afterwards.
http://adamspolishes.com/shop/exteri...ating-kit.html
Feel free to ask any question afterwards.
http://adamspolishes.com/shop/exteri...ating-kit.html
03-06-2018, 02:17 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Silicon Valley and Yosemite, CA
Posts: 5,511
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Maybe this will help. Ceramic and Quartz coatings are beyond snake oil. But everybody and their brother seems to be getting into it, so yes there is some snake oil out there and the inexpensive stuff most likely is.
Owning a detail shop and do Ceramics and Quartz coatings, the good ones, Ceramic Pro, Gyeon, Kamikaze and even better Feynlabs are simply amazing. When applied CORRECTLY, you will have a very long term shine and swirl free finish.
To address Joe's comments, it is extremely labor intensive and a skill is needed to apply a good coating CORRECTLY. I have seen some horrific installs of coatings and have had to correct more than I care to think about. On some cars to do it CORRECTLY, I will spend 8-24 hours doing paint correction. It is not a matter of simply buffing, but knowing what products/compounds and pads to use to get a perfectly swirl free/hologram free finish before the coating is applied.
There are a ton of hobbyist coatings out there. Kamikaze and Gyeon are the best of the hobbyist coatings that I have experience with. I lean towards Kamikaze, it is very user friendly, and the ICM produces an incredible shine.
Nowhere near the Zaino shine I can get, but pretty close.
Look for BudgetPlan1 posts, he has been testing a pantload of coatings. but we do agree on Kamikaze
On a car that is not a daily driver, there is no need to spend large $$$ on a coating. I have a much less expensive option for cars like that.
I charge about 1/3rd+ for a weekender over a daily driver coating.
Owning a detail shop and do Ceramics and Quartz coatings, the good ones, Ceramic Pro, Gyeon, Kamikaze and even better Feynlabs are simply amazing. When applied CORRECTLY, you will have a very long term shine and swirl free finish.
To address Joe's comments, it is extremely labor intensive and a skill is needed to apply a good coating CORRECTLY. I have seen some horrific installs of coatings and have had to correct more than I care to think about. On some cars to do it CORRECTLY, I will spend 8-24 hours doing paint correction. It is not a matter of simply buffing, but knowing what products/compounds and pads to use to get a perfectly swirl free/hologram free finish before the coating is applied.
There are a ton of hobbyist coatings out there. Kamikaze and Gyeon are the best of the hobbyist coatings that I have experience with. I lean towards Kamikaze, it is very user friendly, and the ICM produces an incredible shine.
Nowhere near the Zaino shine I can get, but pretty close.
Look for BudgetPlan1 posts, he has been testing a pantload of coatings. but we do agree on Kamikaze
On a car that is not a daily driver, there is no need to spend large $$$ on a coating. I have a much less expensive option for cars like that.
I charge about 1/3rd+ for a weekender over a daily driver coating.
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gumbo2000 (04-21-2018)
03-06-2018, 05:53 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: NE OH
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Why I like coatings
I`ve messed around with a pretty fair amount of consumer level coatings in the past 18 months including:
Kamikaze Miyabi
Kamikaze ISM
22ple HPC
Cquartz Classic/110
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic
McKees 37 Paint Coating V1
McKees 37 Paint Coating V2
Gyeon Prime
Gyeon Mohs
Gyeon Can Coat
Gyeon Syncro
Gyeon One
Pearl Nano
IGL Quartz (test panel sample only)
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V1
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2
Feynlab Ceramic
On the shelf: Gyeon Pure, Nanolex Si3D
IGL Premier
Kamikaze Overcoat
Gtechniq C2V3
22ple VS1 Final Coat
22ple Finitura
Gyeon Cure
HydroSilex Recharge
Nanolex SiFinish
TAC Systems Moonlight
Some were on personal cars, most were on fleet vehicles at work. All were decon’d/clayed/compounded/polished as necessary using a variety of machines (Flex 3401, Rupes LHR15 Mk2, Rupes LHR75 Mini, Griots Garage 6” DA), a variety of pads (LC flat, LC Hydrotech, LC Force Hybrid, LC Thin Pros, Rupes, Megs Microfiber discs, B & S Uro Cell, B & S Uro Tec, Scholls Spider Pads. Mostly for Flex was the LC Force Hybrids and usually on Rupes the Megs microfiber discs and Rupes foam pads) as well as a variety of compounds and polishes (Wolfgang Uber Compound, Total Swirl Remover, Finishing Glaze, Menzerna FG400, 2400, 3500 & 3800; Rupes Blue, yellow and white compounds/polishes, Sonax Perfect Finish, Jescar Compound and Finishing Polish, Scholl Concepts S20 Black and S40, Meguiars M101, M205 and D300).
Fleet vehicles were completed and then released into the wild, none have been washed since coating application. Most sit outside nearly all the time, likely average 20K miles since application. They ranged from 2016 Ford Transit Exteneded Vans (man, those things SUCKED to correct), Ford E250 panel vans from 2008 thru 2014 and Ford Ranger pickup trucks; all either bright red or a burgundy metallic color.
Our personal cars are a 2016 Honda Civic Coupe in Aegean Blue Metallic, a 2016 Subaru WRX in Crystal Black Silica Metallic (sold 1 month after doing the whole Kamikaze combo on it…oops!), a 2017 Honda Accord V6 Coupe in black, and a 2004 Corvette in, well…black, non metallic. They get washed when dirty using Gyeon Foam at 1:10 dilution w/ SunJoe SPX3001 pressure washer, MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, Gyeon Bathe, 1-bucket wash (gasp!), flood rinsed and then dried with platinum pluffle towels, using Kamikaze Overcoat as a drying aid about once a month.
As for my experience, well…perhaps ‘marginally functional garage hobbyist’ is the best way to describe it. Picked up a DA for the first time about 18 months ago when I bought the Subaru and realized just looking at it wrong would leave a swirl/mark. That’s when I began looking into coatings, first doing most of our cars with WG Uber Ceramic in Spring 2016. First use of Kamikaze was Miyabi + ISM + Overcoat in October 2016; added Infinity Wax to the mix in Spring 2017.
While all were solid products and there were really no disappointments in the bunch, I found nothing that gives me the satisfaction and comfort level of the Kamikaze products.
We`ve had it (Miyabi/ISM/Overcoat and added Infinity and Stance in Spring 2017) on one of our daily drivers since 10/2016 and our auto usage habits, local environmental conditions and maintenance routines haven`t fazed it one bit since application. It just always looks great to my eye, holds up, protects and keeps itself clean with minimal effort. It made it thru daily use in the NE Ohio winter without any noticeable degradation whatsoever and a good summer rainstorm is akin to a free car wash with this stuff; self-cleaning is simply without compare.
Does that make it the best consumer level coating in all the land? Really can`t answer that because there are so many individual and somewhat subjective variables involved in a statement such as that...but I can say that for ME, yes, it is the best coating in my world. The stuff just plain works.
Since this is all somewhat of a hobby for me, with the added benefit of incredible protection and appearance, at the end of the day it has to be fun too. The whole Kamikaze `experience` has been just too much fun for me to continue to look for the next greatest `thing`...every time I look at the cars I find some new nuance, smile and am reminded of all of the enjoyment that went into it.
And yes, I probably put way too much thought into It but that`s what hobbies are for, no?
Put it all together and this is what works best for me so I`ve finally got all our cars wrapped up with it and will now just sit back and enjoy its benefits for a while.
Regarding the individual products, *my* thoughts follow, totally subjective, tailored to what I want out of a coating, namely:
1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don’t like waterspots. I like clean cars but don’t like cleaning cars.
2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don’t wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our Corvette during the Zaino years. Also has to last cuz I don’t wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.
3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.
Regarding the individual coatings I used while trying to find something that topped the Kamikaze products, I’ll offer up the most subjective of opinions below:
Cquartz Classic: Applied in January 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended Van. It’s a solid product, especially given the generally low cost. Application is easy, the looks are good. Finished application is not especially slick, so I topped it with Gyeon Cure. It has remained nice looking, resisted permanent water spotting. A solid, middle of the pack product that likely won’t disappoint. Nothing extremely notable about it to me, however.
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic: Applied in Spring 2016 to 2 of our personal cars, a 2016 black metallic WRX (daily driver all year long, garaged at night, likely 17K miles a year) and 2004 black Corvette (Spring/Summer/Fall usage, stored in winter, maybe 7500 miles a year, does see rain). Being stored thru the winter, the Corvette made it to Spring of 2017 in good shape with the WG Uber; the WRX, however, had completely failed on the vertical panels. Even decon and slight clay could not restore coating properties. IMO, this product, wheil looking good and easy to apply, is just not durable and given the relatively high cost, not among the best choices for me, all things considered.
McKees 37 Paint Coating V1: For the cost, this one surprised me. Used it on a friend’s car that gets occasional washing, daily driven, about 5000 miles year-round. Nice looks, easy maintenance when combined with another SiO2 add-on like or Gyeon Wetcoat or Cure. It’s still doing nicely after application in Summer 2016, generally maintained with Gyeon Wetcoat on occasion. On its own, maybe it wouldn’t last as long but I cant say for sure
McKees 37 Paint Coating V2: Onlye have a month or 2 on the vehicle I applied it to. Actually, I liked V1 a bit better. V2 flashes quicker and is tacker on removal.
Gyeon Prime: It’s nice, easy to use and has some good initial water behavior. Good glossy looks, I’d place it a bit below Cquartz. It just really didn’t do much for me.
Gyeon Mohs: This is a nice product, among the best at self-cleaning since applied to a fleet Ford Ranger in February 2016. Has always looked clean despite never having been washed since application. Beading has fallen off a bit but it still looks clean, shiny and to a none-ocd person, would look freshly washed. Seems to resist marring better than some of the others.
GYeon Syncro: Have very high hopes for this one, applied about a month ago to a new vehicle. The Skin component adds to what the Mohs base layer lacked, i.e. slickness and water behavior. Very easy to apply, nice gloss. Time will tell how it holds up
Gyeon One: Th results were nice, but application was the stickiest once it hit the paint that I've ever used. Forgiving with respect to the amount of time you have to buff off missed high spots but very arduous removing/buffing.
Gyeon CanCoat: Water behavior, appearance and self-cleaning are on par with a ‘full fledged’ coating product and in the right situation, a product like this might even be a preferred solution for a vehicle/owner who is somewhat less OCD-ish or unwilling to invest the time and cost in a full correction/coating job for their vehicle. Maintained via wash with Gyeon Bathe+ on a somewhat regular basis, or post-wash with Gyeon WetCoat and I’ll bet the longevity exceeds the claimed 6 months. Add Gyeon Cure on occasion and it’ll likely stretch longer according to some accounts I’ve read. I could also see this as being an economical and effective product to use for those who do not wish to spend the time and money prepping and applying more ‘complete’ coating solution. Prep and perhaps a light polish once a year, a CanCoat application or two over that year and you’re getting the protection, self-cleaning and appearance properties of a coating without the more significant investment of time and money a more ‘semi-permanent’ coating would involve, especially for the casual DIY’er. In fact, given the low cost of CanCoat, I can see it being a viable replacement for a sealant if you like or want the look, feel, protection and self-cleaning properties of a coating. It’s actually much easier to apply than most sealants (for me anyway) as well.
Pearl Nano: Base Coat/Top Coat system. I did a bright red Ford Ranger in this, never been washed since application in Feb/March 2016. Gotta kinda jump thru some hoops to get this stuff, did not excel in self-cleaning but was decent. Given the pricing (not outrageous, but in the 22ple HPC range for Base/Top 50ml), not something I’d be interesting in using again. It’s a nice product but not notable enough to continue with when easier, equal performing choices are available. Will say that their glass coating IS nice, worked better for me than Gyeon View or Kamikaze Intenso.
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light: I really wanted to like this; I like the name, the packaging and the company and upon initial application (topped with Liquid Crystal C2V3) it darkened the bright red paint of the 2014 Ford E250 van I used it on. Nice, deep, rich gloss, easy application. Unfortunately, once released into the wild it was prone to water spotting (easily removed) and was probably the worst of all I tried in self-cleaning abilities. Oddly enough, about 3 months in it started keeping itself cleaner with no outside intervention except for Mother Nature and her rain. Have seen evidence that if topped with EXO, it’s a whole ‘nuther animal, with incredible hydrophobic properties which would significantly aid in self cleaning abilities.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V1: I’d put it in the same class as Cquartz as far as performance goes. Longevity began to drop off as far as self-cleaning goes, but not to Gtechniq CSL levels. It’s good and I’ll bet if topped with an SiO2 booster, would amp up performance. The looks on a metallic burgundy paint in the sun was fantastic, really brought out the metallic.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2: At the end of the day, I’m thinking that if The Gloss Shop Ceramic coating V2 has ‘legs’ and the durability, self cleaning and hydrophobic effects hold up over the long term, it’s *near* the same league as 22ple HPC at about 1/3 of the cost. It has a ‘substantial’ feel to it during application and leaves a pleasing feel to the paint after application; the look is deep and pleasing without being retina-burning in terms of some coatings, hard-gloss look. Again, if it holds up and reaches near the durability claimed, they really have something special here at an unbelievable low cost. Given the suggestion of 1-coat only (a’ la Kamikaze ISM) a 50ml bottle would easily cover two somewhat large vehicles, including Trim, knocking it down to a cost of $25 per vehicle for a solid, good looking and (hopefully) well performing Ceramic Coating. Being an American-made, America- developed product that gives high performance at a low cost would certainly make it stand out and even stand above some more mainstream coatings.
22ple HPC: This was a favorite and for a while, I thought it was gonna unseat the Kamikaze as my favorite. Incredible gloss, most of any I used, the hard, candy gloss appearance. Great self-cleaning abilities, even 6 months after application with no washing/topping or anything. Application is bizarrely easy, very forgiving. It flashes much like a wax or sealant when time to remove so less guesswork there. I applied at the end of March 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended van, bright red, and it immediately gave that cliché’d Molten Glass look to the paint.
The one downside with the HPC is that while they recommend multiple layers, they also recommend 24hrs curing between layers; that can be kinda inconvenient.
It was so nice that I used it on the 2017 black Honda Acccord Coupe I traded in the WRX on. Applied around July 4 to the Accord, it sure looked like a winner…until I pulled it in the garage next to the recently completed Corvette (Kamikaze Miyabi x2, ISM x1, Infinity Wax and Overcoat). The Accord with the 22ple HPC still looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a foot deep. Unfortunately, the Corvette with the Kamikaze looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a MILE deep. Goodbye 22ple, hello Kamikaze on the black Accord.
Feynlab Ceramic: I gave this a shot on the Corvette in between removing 2016’s WG Uber and applying the Kamikaze. It was crazy forgiving in application, long window between apply/remove and left a sharp glossy finish that was quite nice. Unfortunately, the self-cleaning and water behavior was poor, leaving significant water spots after a rainstorm. Again, easily removed with wash but still…not in Kamikaze league in that respect.
Feynlab Ceramic + TopCoat: Very nice, look can best be described as 'brilliant' gloss. No longevity info yet, applied relatively recently.
IGL Quartz: Got a sample, have it sitting on the hood of a fleet vehicle next to 22ple HPC and so far, no differences can be noted. Nice to apply, though...a very 'rich' feeling during application. Nice gloss, good self-cleaning. Really irrelevant unless you're an authorized installer as they don't sell to public.
Still have Nanolex Si3D and Gyeon Pure on the shelf to try.
So, what conclusions have I come to after spending all that time (and money) auditioning all those coatings? Well, considering the climate I live in, the looks I like and the characteristics of coating that I consider primary, I’ve kinda settled on the below for folks who want their car coated; I broken into the top, money is no object choice and then the others at number 2a, b & c depending on conditions, color, appearance and durability desired.
1. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM x 1, (Infinity Wax optional, just gives a really nice, subtle ‘relaxed high gloss’ to the finish) and maintain with Kamikaze Overcoat. Looks are a mixture of high gloss, deep, warm, rich glow and the self cleaning abilities are beyond compare. Coming up on the 1 year anniversary of application to our daily driven, sits outside 8 months a year, metallic blue Honda Civic and the thing just *always* looks great. Sure, it gets a bit dirty and nose to paint you will see the dirt but the water spots after rain seem to shrink and disappear before spotting, taking much of the surface contamination with them. Bird bombs come off with little to no effort/pressure, even if dried by the sun, leaving no mark. Being a Kamikaze fan, I`m sure no one is surprised by this coming from me.
2a. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, maintained with Overcoat. High gloss, hard candy type look. Great self cleaning and at $90 for 30ml, pretty good bargain. Would use on dark cars that don’t wanna go for the whole Kamikaze enchilada. Easy application, 5-15 minute window between application/removal given appropriate climate/temperature. Just so very easy to use.
2b. 22ple HPC. Much like the Miyabi alone, this high-gloss choice is good for lighter colored cars. Did a white Honda CRV in this and it really brought out the subtle metallic/pearl character of the paint. More $$ than Miyabi but nearly as stellar at self cleaning goes.
2c. Gyeon Mohs but will be supplanted in this position should Gyeon Syncro perform as expected. Perhaps the best all-around choice for daily drivers at a reasonable cost. Great self-cleaning, and solid protection. I left a bird bomb on the hood for a week or so, backing in the hot summer sun and when it rained and removed itself, it left no mark. I think it’s one of the ‘harder’ coatings by reputation and I saw nothing that discredits that claim. I have seen that topping this with Gyeon Can Coat can add some longevity and amp up the gloss into ‘hard candy’ territory as opposed to it’s native deep, warm glow type gloss. Drop some Gyeon Booster (Fluorine based top coat) on it to extend life and enhance self cleaning and hydrophobic properties.
Its been fun and interesting for sure, no regrets...
Given the limited use of your vehicle and it's environment it might just be that you don't need a full on coating and something like GYeon CanCoat, applied twice a year would be enough. It's got great candy gloss, ridiculously easy to apply and somewhat inexpensive.
If you did want to step up to a more 'proper' coating, Kamikaze is very nice. If you prefer a harder, sharper gloss, 2 layers of Miyabi would fit the bill. If you prefer a deeper, warmer gloss, 1 coat of ISM would do the trick. Maintain each with Kamikaze Overcoat and you'll get a couple of years out of it for sure.
If you prefer a 'molten' glass look, not quite the depth of Kamikaze ISM but a bit softer high gloss than Miyabi, 22ple HPC would be an excellent choice...more of a 'fluid' gloss. Bizarrely easy application.
In the end, it's all every subjective. If you lined up all the coatings on clean, equally prepped, identical vehicles I may be able to identify 10% correctly in the bright sun, based on appearance alone. If it started raining, I could likely ID another 40-50% and if we let the water dry in the sun, maybe another 10-15% could be ID'd. Maybe. On a good day. With a little bit of luck. Perhaps.
Kamikaze Miyabi
Kamikaze ISM
22ple HPC
Cquartz Classic/110
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic
McKees 37 Paint Coating V1
McKees 37 Paint Coating V2
Gyeon Prime
Gyeon Mohs
Gyeon Can Coat
Gyeon Syncro
Gyeon One
Pearl Nano
IGL Quartz (test panel sample only)
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V1
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2
Feynlab Ceramic
On the shelf: Gyeon Pure, Nanolex Si3D
IGL Premier
Kamikaze Overcoat
Gtechniq C2V3
22ple VS1 Final Coat
22ple Finitura
Gyeon Cure
HydroSilex Recharge
Nanolex SiFinish
TAC Systems Moonlight
Some were on personal cars, most were on fleet vehicles at work. All were decon’d/clayed/compounded/polished as necessary using a variety of machines (Flex 3401, Rupes LHR15 Mk2, Rupes LHR75 Mini, Griots Garage 6” DA), a variety of pads (LC flat, LC Hydrotech, LC Force Hybrid, LC Thin Pros, Rupes, Megs Microfiber discs, B & S Uro Cell, B & S Uro Tec, Scholls Spider Pads. Mostly for Flex was the LC Force Hybrids and usually on Rupes the Megs microfiber discs and Rupes foam pads) as well as a variety of compounds and polishes (Wolfgang Uber Compound, Total Swirl Remover, Finishing Glaze, Menzerna FG400, 2400, 3500 & 3800; Rupes Blue, yellow and white compounds/polishes, Sonax Perfect Finish, Jescar Compound and Finishing Polish, Scholl Concepts S20 Black and S40, Meguiars M101, M205 and D300).
Fleet vehicles were completed and then released into the wild, none have been washed since coating application. Most sit outside nearly all the time, likely average 20K miles since application. They ranged from 2016 Ford Transit Exteneded Vans (man, those things SUCKED to correct), Ford E250 panel vans from 2008 thru 2014 and Ford Ranger pickup trucks; all either bright red or a burgundy metallic color.
Our personal cars are a 2016 Honda Civic Coupe in Aegean Blue Metallic, a 2016 Subaru WRX in Crystal Black Silica Metallic (sold 1 month after doing the whole Kamikaze combo on it…oops!), a 2017 Honda Accord V6 Coupe in black, and a 2004 Corvette in, well…black, non metallic. They get washed when dirty using Gyeon Foam at 1:10 dilution w/ SunJoe SPX3001 pressure washer, MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, Gyeon Bathe, 1-bucket wash (gasp!), flood rinsed and then dried with platinum pluffle towels, using Kamikaze Overcoat as a drying aid about once a month.
As for my experience, well…perhaps ‘marginally functional garage hobbyist’ is the best way to describe it. Picked up a DA for the first time about 18 months ago when I bought the Subaru and realized just looking at it wrong would leave a swirl/mark. That’s when I began looking into coatings, first doing most of our cars with WG Uber Ceramic in Spring 2016. First use of Kamikaze was Miyabi + ISM + Overcoat in October 2016; added Infinity Wax to the mix in Spring 2017.
While all were solid products and there were really no disappointments in the bunch, I found nothing that gives me the satisfaction and comfort level of the Kamikaze products.
We`ve had it (Miyabi/ISM/Overcoat and added Infinity and Stance in Spring 2017) on one of our daily drivers since 10/2016 and our auto usage habits, local environmental conditions and maintenance routines haven`t fazed it one bit since application. It just always looks great to my eye, holds up, protects and keeps itself clean with minimal effort. It made it thru daily use in the NE Ohio winter without any noticeable degradation whatsoever and a good summer rainstorm is akin to a free car wash with this stuff; self-cleaning is simply without compare.
Does that make it the best consumer level coating in all the land? Really can`t answer that because there are so many individual and somewhat subjective variables involved in a statement such as that...but I can say that for ME, yes, it is the best coating in my world. The stuff just plain works.
Since this is all somewhat of a hobby for me, with the added benefit of incredible protection and appearance, at the end of the day it has to be fun too. The whole Kamikaze `experience` has been just too much fun for me to continue to look for the next greatest `thing`...every time I look at the cars I find some new nuance, smile and am reminded of all of the enjoyment that went into it.
And yes, I probably put way too much thought into It but that`s what hobbies are for, no?
Put it all together and this is what works best for me so I`ve finally got all our cars wrapped up with it and will now just sit back and enjoy its benefits for a while.
Regarding the individual products, *my* thoughts follow, totally subjective, tailored to what I want out of a coating, namely:
1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don’t like waterspots. I like clean cars but don’t like cleaning cars.
2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don’t wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our Corvette during the Zaino years. Also has to last cuz I don’t wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.
3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.
Regarding the individual coatings I used while trying to find something that topped the Kamikaze products, I’ll offer up the most subjective of opinions below:
Cquartz Classic: Applied in January 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended Van. It’s a solid product, especially given the generally low cost. Application is easy, the looks are good. Finished application is not especially slick, so I topped it with Gyeon Cure. It has remained nice looking, resisted permanent water spotting. A solid, middle of the pack product that likely won’t disappoint. Nothing extremely notable about it to me, however.
Wolfgang Uber Ceramic: Applied in Spring 2016 to 2 of our personal cars, a 2016 black metallic WRX (daily driver all year long, garaged at night, likely 17K miles a year) and 2004 black Corvette (Spring/Summer/Fall usage, stored in winter, maybe 7500 miles a year, does see rain). Being stored thru the winter, the Corvette made it to Spring of 2017 in good shape with the WG Uber; the WRX, however, had completely failed on the vertical panels. Even decon and slight clay could not restore coating properties. IMO, this product, wheil looking good and easy to apply, is just not durable and given the relatively high cost, not among the best choices for me, all things considered.
McKees 37 Paint Coating V1: For the cost, this one surprised me. Used it on a friend’s car that gets occasional washing, daily driven, about 5000 miles year-round. Nice looks, easy maintenance when combined with another SiO2 add-on like or Gyeon Wetcoat or Cure. It’s still doing nicely after application in Summer 2016, generally maintained with Gyeon Wetcoat on occasion. On its own, maybe it wouldn’t last as long but I cant say for sure
McKees 37 Paint Coating V2: Onlye have a month or 2 on the vehicle I applied it to. Actually, I liked V1 a bit better. V2 flashes quicker and is tacker on removal.
Gyeon Prime: It’s nice, easy to use and has some good initial water behavior. Good glossy looks, I’d place it a bit below Cquartz. It just really didn’t do much for me.
Gyeon Mohs: This is a nice product, among the best at self-cleaning since applied to a fleet Ford Ranger in February 2016. Has always looked clean despite never having been washed since application. Beading has fallen off a bit but it still looks clean, shiny and to a none-ocd person, would look freshly washed. Seems to resist marring better than some of the others.
GYeon Syncro: Have very high hopes for this one, applied about a month ago to a new vehicle. The Skin component adds to what the Mohs base layer lacked, i.e. slickness and water behavior. Very easy to apply, nice gloss. Time will tell how it holds up
Gyeon One: Th results were nice, but application was the stickiest once it hit the paint that I've ever used. Forgiving with respect to the amount of time you have to buff off missed high spots but very arduous removing/buffing.
Gyeon CanCoat: Water behavior, appearance and self-cleaning are on par with a ‘full fledged’ coating product and in the right situation, a product like this might even be a preferred solution for a vehicle/owner who is somewhat less OCD-ish or unwilling to invest the time and cost in a full correction/coating job for their vehicle. Maintained via wash with Gyeon Bathe+ on a somewhat regular basis, or post-wash with Gyeon WetCoat and I’ll bet the longevity exceeds the claimed 6 months. Add Gyeon Cure on occasion and it’ll likely stretch longer according to some accounts I’ve read. I could also see this as being an economical and effective product to use for those who do not wish to spend the time and money prepping and applying more ‘complete’ coating solution. Prep and perhaps a light polish once a year, a CanCoat application or two over that year and you’re getting the protection, self-cleaning and appearance properties of a coating without the more significant investment of time and money a more ‘semi-permanent’ coating would involve, especially for the casual DIY’er. In fact, given the low cost of CanCoat, I can see it being a viable replacement for a sealant if you like or want the look, feel, protection and self-cleaning properties of a coating. It’s actually much easier to apply than most sealants (for me anyway) as well.
Pearl Nano: Base Coat/Top Coat system. I did a bright red Ford Ranger in this, never been washed since application in Feb/March 2016. Gotta kinda jump thru some hoops to get this stuff, did not excel in self-cleaning but was decent. Given the pricing (not outrageous, but in the 22ple HPC range for Base/Top 50ml), not something I’d be interesting in using again. It’s a nice product but not notable enough to continue with when easier, equal performing choices are available. Will say that their glass coating IS nice, worked better for me than Gyeon View or Kamikaze Intenso.
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light: I really wanted to like this; I like the name, the packaging and the company and upon initial application (topped with Liquid Crystal C2V3) it darkened the bright red paint of the 2014 Ford E250 van I used it on. Nice, deep, rich gloss, easy application. Unfortunately, once released into the wild it was prone to water spotting (easily removed) and was probably the worst of all I tried in self-cleaning abilities. Oddly enough, about 3 months in it started keeping itself cleaner with no outside intervention except for Mother Nature and her rain. Have seen evidence that if topped with EXO, it’s a whole ‘nuther animal, with incredible hydrophobic properties which would significantly aid in self cleaning abilities.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V1: I’d put it in the same class as Cquartz as far as performance goes. Longevity began to drop off as far as self-cleaning goes, but not to Gtechniq CSL levels. It’s good and I’ll bet if topped with an SiO2 booster, would amp up performance. The looks on a metallic burgundy paint in the sun was fantastic, really brought out the metallic.
The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2: At the end of the day, I’m thinking that if The Gloss Shop Ceramic coating V2 has ‘legs’ and the durability, self cleaning and hydrophobic effects hold up over the long term, it’s *near* the same league as 22ple HPC at about 1/3 of the cost. It has a ‘substantial’ feel to it during application and leaves a pleasing feel to the paint after application; the look is deep and pleasing without being retina-burning in terms of some coatings, hard-gloss look. Again, if it holds up and reaches near the durability claimed, they really have something special here at an unbelievable low cost. Given the suggestion of 1-coat only (a’ la Kamikaze ISM) a 50ml bottle would easily cover two somewhat large vehicles, including Trim, knocking it down to a cost of $25 per vehicle for a solid, good looking and (hopefully) well performing Ceramic Coating. Being an American-made, America- developed product that gives high performance at a low cost would certainly make it stand out and even stand above some more mainstream coatings.
22ple HPC: This was a favorite and for a while, I thought it was gonna unseat the Kamikaze as my favorite. Incredible gloss, most of any I used, the hard, candy gloss appearance. Great self-cleaning abilities, even 6 months after application with no washing/topping or anything. Application is bizarrely easy, very forgiving. It flashes much like a wax or sealant when time to remove so less guesswork there. I applied at the end of March 2017 to a 2016 Ford Transit Extended van, bright red, and it immediately gave that cliché’d Molten Glass look to the paint.
The one downside with the HPC is that while they recommend multiple layers, they also recommend 24hrs curing between layers; that can be kinda inconvenient.
It was so nice that I used it on the 2017 black Honda Acccord Coupe I traded in the WRX on. Applied around July 4 to the Accord, it sure looked like a winner…until I pulled it in the garage next to the recently completed Corvette (Kamikaze Miyabi x2, ISM x1, Infinity Wax and Overcoat). The Accord with the 22ple HPC still looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a foot deep. Unfortunately, the Corvette with the Kamikaze looked glossy and nice, with a mirror finish that looked a MILE deep. Goodbye 22ple, hello Kamikaze on the black Accord.
Feynlab Ceramic: I gave this a shot on the Corvette in between removing 2016’s WG Uber and applying the Kamikaze. It was crazy forgiving in application, long window between apply/remove and left a sharp glossy finish that was quite nice. Unfortunately, the self-cleaning and water behavior was poor, leaving significant water spots after a rainstorm. Again, easily removed with wash but still…not in Kamikaze league in that respect.
Feynlab Ceramic + TopCoat: Very nice, look can best be described as 'brilliant' gloss. No longevity info yet, applied relatively recently.
IGL Quartz: Got a sample, have it sitting on the hood of a fleet vehicle next to 22ple HPC and so far, no differences can be noted. Nice to apply, though...a very 'rich' feeling during application. Nice gloss, good self-cleaning. Really irrelevant unless you're an authorized installer as they don't sell to public.
Still have Nanolex Si3D and Gyeon Pure on the shelf to try.
So, what conclusions have I come to after spending all that time (and money) auditioning all those coatings? Well, considering the climate I live in, the looks I like and the characteristics of coating that I consider primary, I’ve kinda settled on the below for folks who want their car coated; I broken into the top, money is no object choice and then the others at number 2a, b & c depending on conditions, color, appearance and durability desired.
1. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM x 1, (Infinity Wax optional, just gives a really nice, subtle ‘relaxed high gloss’ to the finish) and maintain with Kamikaze Overcoat. Looks are a mixture of high gloss, deep, warm, rich glow and the self cleaning abilities are beyond compare. Coming up on the 1 year anniversary of application to our daily driven, sits outside 8 months a year, metallic blue Honda Civic and the thing just *always* looks great. Sure, it gets a bit dirty and nose to paint you will see the dirt but the water spots after rain seem to shrink and disappear before spotting, taking much of the surface contamination with them. Bird bombs come off with little to no effort/pressure, even if dried by the sun, leaving no mark. Being a Kamikaze fan, I`m sure no one is surprised by this coming from me.
2a. Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, maintained with Overcoat. High gloss, hard candy type look. Great self cleaning and at $90 for 30ml, pretty good bargain. Would use on dark cars that don’t wanna go for the whole Kamikaze enchilada. Easy application, 5-15 minute window between application/removal given appropriate climate/temperature. Just so very easy to use.
2b. 22ple HPC. Much like the Miyabi alone, this high-gloss choice is good for lighter colored cars. Did a white Honda CRV in this and it really brought out the subtle metallic/pearl character of the paint. More $$ than Miyabi but nearly as stellar at self cleaning goes.
2c. Gyeon Mohs but will be supplanted in this position should Gyeon Syncro perform as expected. Perhaps the best all-around choice for daily drivers at a reasonable cost. Great self-cleaning, and solid protection. I left a bird bomb on the hood for a week or so, backing in the hot summer sun and when it rained and removed itself, it left no mark. I think it’s one of the ‘harder’ coatings by reputation and I saw nothing that discredits that claim. I have seen that topping this with Gyeon Can Coat can add some longevity and amp up the gloss into ‘hard candy’ territory as opposed to it’s native deep, warm glow type gloss. Drop some Gyeon Booster (Fluorine based top coat) on it to extend life and enhance self cleaning and hydrophobic properties.
Its been fun and interesting for sure, no regrets...
Given the limited use of your vehicle and it's environment it might just be that you don't need a full on coating and something like GYeon CanCoat, applied twice a year would be enough. It's got great candy gloss, ridiculously easy to apply and somewhat inexpensive.
If you did want to step up to a more 'proper' coating, Kamikaze is very nice. If you prefer a harder, sharper gloss, 2 layers of Miyabi would fit the bill. If you prefer a deeper, warmer gloss, 1 coat of ISM would do the trick. Maintain each with Kamikaze Overcoat and you'll get a couple of years out of it for sure.
If you prefer a 'molten' glass look, not quite the depth of Kamikaze ISM but a bit softer high gloss than Miyabi, 22ple HPC would be an excellent choice...more of a 'fluid' gloss. Bizarrely easy application.
In the end, it's all every subjective. If you lined up all the coatings on clean, equally prepped, identical vehicles I may be able to identify 10% correctly in the bright sun, based on appearance alone. If it started raining, I could likely ID another 40-50% and if we let the water dry in the sun, maybe another 10-15% could be ID'd. Maybe. On a good day. With a little bit of luck. Perhaps.
The following 6 users liked this post by BudgetPlan1:
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03-09-2018, 03:39 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
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I did read BudgetPlans1 post below yours...I see there are less water spots and issues with contaminants with the ceramics. Is that it?
Last edited by IAIA; 03-09-2018 at 03:40 PM.
03-09-2018, 07:36 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
I think we get plenty of depth/gloss out of our coated cars, it offers excellent protection and maintenance is much easier. You can also choose coatings that provide different types of gloss; s hard, candy gloss, a deeper warmer gloss, a more fluid molten-glass type of gloss. Just gotta do your homework, decide what you like/want/Need and head in that direction.
I'm the farthest thing from a pro but did well enough with choosing a coating that makes me smile whenever I look at it:
03-10-2018, 01:15 AM
#10
Melting Slicks
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Yup. That is an awesome finish. Which product was that? From your adjectives, I seem to think I would like the "fluid, molten glass gloss." Which product did you find offered that?
Also, if one wants to change coatings, does a finish polish with a Flex do the trick, or do I need to use deeper cut levels to remove the existing coating?
Also, do you have PPF on that C5?
Thanks for your opinion and time, btw.
Also, if one wants to change coatings, does a finish polish with a Flex do the trick, or do I need to use deeper cut levels to remove the existing coating?
Also, do you have PPF on that C5?
Thanks for your opinion and time, btw.
Last edited by IAIA; 03-10-2018 at 01:17 AM.
03-10-2018, 10:13 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Yup. That is an awesome finish. Which product was that? From your adjectives, I seem to think I would like the "fluid, molten glass gloss." Which product did you find offered that?
Also, if one wants to change coatings, does a finish polish with a Flex do the trick, or do I need to use deeper cut levels to remove the existing coating?
Also, do you have PPF on that C5?
Thanks for your opinion and time, btw.
Also, if one wants to change coatings, does a finish polish with a Flex do the trick, or do I need to use deeper cut levels to remove the existing coating?
Also, do you have PPF on that C5?
Thanks for your opinion and time, btw.
The car is now done in Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM x 1, a coat of Infinity Wax every 3 months or so and Kamikaze Overcoat used for maint. (I use as drying aid after wash).
This car started Summer 2017 wearing WG Uber Ceramic, polished that off mid-summer and coated it with Feynlab Ceramic which it wore for about 6 weeks until I polished that off and then coated with the Kamikaze combo. Car is a April to November toy for my wife, pretty much daily driven during that period, rain or shine...maybe 7500 miles a year. Stays very, very clean with the Kamikaze, even for black. Washed maybe every other week.
The thought process behind the products used was:
1. Miyabi x 2 provides a sharp, high gloss, hard base layer.
2. The ISM layer mutes the sharpness of the base Miyabi, lending it a deeper, warmer glow.
3. Infinity Wax provides additional gloss and depth to the shine and gives me something worthwhile to do because, well, sometimes waxing a car is just fun. Being part of the Kamikaze Collection, it's designed to work well with their coatings, not diminishing any of the coatings beneficial properties like a 'normal' wax would.
4. Kamikaze Overcoat gives me the top 'sacrificial' layer, probably providing a tiny bit more surface gloss but used more for the superb self cleaning and hydrophobic properties. Being inherently lazy, the Overcoat also makes drying so much easier so that's a definite plus. Using in this manner, with 3 cars being washed every other week, a 250ml bottle lasted from May 2017 thru November with about 20ml probably left in the bottle. A little goes a long way.
The combo is on all of our 3 cars now.
Additionally, the wheels/exhaust tips are coated in Kamikaze Stance and the tires are coated in TuffShine Tire coating.
With all the stuff coated, washing is a breeze. Foam with Gyeon Foam, bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe, dry with Platinum Pluffle. When done washing, all I'm left to clean up is a Gyeon Smoothie wash mitt, 2 Platinum Pluffles (1 paint only for drying, one 'older, demoted' Pluffle for drying wheels/tires/door jambs/exhaust). Easy, 30 minute process.
As for the 'molten glass' look, I found that 22ple HPC gives that look the best. Crazy, easy application, it is almost near or equal to the Kamikaze in terms of self cleaning behavior. Can top with 22ple Finitura for a bit more protection and maintain with 22ple VS1 Final Coat. It's a very, very nice product that I tend to use on light colored cars and cars that i/they don't wanna go for the entire Kamikaze combo. I also like it on darker red metallic paints (like Mazda Soul Red or Ford Ruby Red) as it ends up looking really cool, like a dripping wet candied apple. Only downside is 24hrs between 1st and 2nd coat application; can be logistically challenging if you don't have that extra time to wait. The 22ple does lack a bit of depth compared to the Kamikaze though for the most part not noticeable unless studying the 2 closel on dark colored cars sitting side by side. I noticed this as I first did a new black Accord in 22ple and parked it in the garage next to the Kamikaze Vette and stared at them for a few weeks. It also could very well be all in my mind as I'm an avowed Kamikaze junkie for a variety of reasons in addition to how it looks and performs.
I actually got to meet the inventor and owner of Kamikaze (Kai Morita) at an Esoteric open house last Spring; guy is a true enthusiast with a sincere passion for this stuff...not a big marketer or sales driven guy but rather a guy who was visibly excited and enthusiastic when hearing how his products have enhanced our 'automotive lifestyle'. As a hobbyist, I have the luxury of allowing intangible aspects of things come into play when making decisions, all other aspects being equal.
As far as polishing off coatings, some I've removed with Megs M205 on orange light cutting pad, some with Menz 2400 on orange light cutting pad. Scholls S20 Black with their navy spider pad works well too. It all depends on the tenacity of the coating but generally a medium compound/polish is a pretty safe bet, I think.
Please bear in mind that I'm no professional, not by a long shot. I just found I like polishing paint, applying coatings, and enjoying the benefits. These opinions and thoughts are merely based upon my experiences and what I 'think'. The only thing I *know* for sure is that there's a lot more about this stuff that I DON'T know as opposed to that I DO know. But that's a large part of the fun for me.
Kamikaze U.S. vendor us Esoteric Car Care in new Albany, OH. If you have any questions about Kamikaze, give them a call. Great bunch of folks who have provided me with a ton of help, both coating and in general.
Detailed Image is US vendor for 22ple. 22ple is kinda an enigmatic company, hard to get a hold of at times, don't even have a website. When I have a question, it seems the best way to contact them is thru their Facebook page...generally I'll send em a message around 4 to 5am EST and usually get a pretty quick response. Great products though, just kinda a quirky company.
Kamikaze sheeting water:
Below is Ruby Red Ford Explorer done in 22ple HPC + 22ple Finitura. Blue car is an area that, for me, best shows the relaxed high gloss look of Kamikaze on a body panel transition. And some Kamikaze beads on blue and black daily drivers if ya like beads.
Last edited by BudgetPlan1; 03-10-2018 at 10:37 AM.
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IAIA (03-10-2018)
03-10-2018, 09:55 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
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Does Kamikase make a quick detailer, or is that what Overcoat is? Can I use my remaining zaino detailer or even the Z2 Z5 that I have?
Your results are awesome too.
Thanks again.
03-10-2018, 11:15 PM
#13
I have always been a Zaino guy. Just had the ZR1 finished in Ceramic Pro plus. Depth of color and shine blows away the Zaino
03-11-2018, 04:42 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
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Zaino - simple to use with Clear Seal and Z-8
Promotes what the paint manufacturer is trying to show(Pearls and Metallics) that make the finish beyond incredible
Daily driver issues - not good with bird stuff or water spots.
Not impervious to scratches
Low to Moderate Cost
Excellent for garage queens
Ceramics - Incredible self cleaning
Impervious to most scratches
Excellent water beading and water runoff(hydrophobic, hate the word)
So slick nothing sticks to it
Very high cost
While BudgetPlan1 did his PHD dissertations, simply put Zaino has a much higher quality shine and brings out the manufacturer's paint qualities much better than the Ceramics.
I will still recommend Zaino over the Ceramics, based on the car and what the owner does with it.
It is true Zaino does not have the daily driver qualities of the Ceramics. Ceramics cannot be beat for that, BUT not being a daily driver, Zaino can bring out the qualities of the paint.. ie Pearls and Metallics, 200% over the Ceramics.It is a matter of understanding what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote and what products Zaino has to promote it.
you won;t beat a Ceramic for the qualities it has on a daily driver, they are simply awesome and I love the product. My test vehicle has 4 different products on it as a daily driver and even driven in inclement weather without washing it, still looks stunning
Last edited by Grzldvt1; 03-11-2018 at 04:44 AM.
03-11-2018, 01:08 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10
As for appearance of Zaino v Ceramics, only you can decide what your personal preference is.
Mark Ca prefers Ceramics:
As for my excessively wordy dissertations, "Mea culpa..." on that point. I tend to prefer to provide the most info I can based upon my experiences. Sometimes the little voices in my head having the conversations that manifest themselves through the keyboard do tend to ramble on, unaware that perhaps the original question/questioner was seeking a more succinct response. My apologies if that was the case in this instance.
I always seek out as much info as I can devour on topics that interest me and don't realize that others sometimes want to 'cut to the chase'; again, guilty as charged.
As a hobbyist/amateur my scope of experience is limited to only my narrowly focused world, lacking the experience of those who do this on an entirely different (and higher) level; it is worthwhile for folks to consider that limitation. As I mentioned previously, there is a lot more that I don't know than I do know and while I'm pretty sure that no one person knows everything, it's very likely they know more than I...and I'm OK with that.
Best of luck in your search, I'm sure whichever way you end up going will be stunning and I look forward to hearing about and seeing your final results.
Last edited by BudgetPlan1; 03-11-2018 at 01:42 PM.
03-11-2018, 04:31 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
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The consensus seems to be that Zaino gives a better shine than ceramics, but that it is less resistant to contaminants and water spotting than ceramics. But that ceramic finish of Mark Ca is way shinier than anything I've gotten from multiple coats of Z2, Z5, Z8 and their ClearSeal.
Yes, I have to try it for myself.
As they say, you don't likey, don't read-y. (But I suspect that "dig" was more admiration than malice!)
I for one enjoy the complete and articulate treatment that you provide. You have quickly become my go-to, amateur (by your own admission) replacement for what BugMan used to provide in terms of detailing advice back in my C5 days. So thanks.
Yes, I have to try it for myself.
I for one enjoy the complete and articulate treatment that you provide. You have quickly become my go-to, amateur (by your own admission) replacement for what BugMan used to provide in terms of detailing advice back in my C5 days. So thanks.
Last edited by IAIA; 03-11-2018 at 04:34 PM.
03-11-2018, 05:53 PM
#17
Cliff Notes
Zaino - simple to use with Clear Seal and Z-8
Promotes what the paint manufacturer is trying to show(Pearls and Metallics) that make the finish beyond incredible
Daily driver issues - not good with bird stuff or water spots.
Not impervious to scratches
Low to Moderate Cost
Excellent for garage queens
Ceramics - Incredible self cleaning
Impervious to most scratches
Excellent water beading and water runoff(hydrophobic, hate the word)
So slick nothing sticks to it
Very high cost
While BudgetPlan1 did his PHD dissertations, simply put Zaino has a much higher quality shine and brings out the manufacturer's paint qualities much better than the Ceramics.
I will still recommend Zaino over the Ceramics, based on the car and what the owner does with it.
It is true Zaino does not have the daily driver qualities of the Ceramics. Ceramics cannot be beat for that, BUT not being a daily driver, Zaino can bring out the qualities of the paint.. ie Pearls and Metallics, 200% over the Ceramics.It is a matter of understanding what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote and what products Zaino has to promote it.
you won;t beat a Ceramic for the qualities it has on a daily driver, they are simply awesome and I love the product. My test vehicle has 4 different products on it as a daily driver and even driven in inclement weather without washing it, still looks stunning
Zaino - simple to use with Clear Seal and Z-8
Promotes what the paint manufacturer is trying to show(Pearls and Metallics) that make the finish beyond incredible
Daily driver issues - not good with bird stuff or water spots.
Not impervious to scratches
Low to Moderate Cost
Excellent for garage queens
Ceramics - Incredible self cleaning
Impervious to most scratches
Excellent water beading and water runoff(hydrophobic, hate the word)
So slick nothing sticks to it
Very high cost
While BudgetPlan1 did his PHD dissertations, simply put Zaino has a much higher quality shine and brings out the manufacturer's paint qualities much better than the Ceramics.
I will still recommend Zaino over the Ceramics, based on the car and what the owner does with it.
It is true Zaino does not have the daily driver qualities of the Ceramics. Ceramics cannot be beat for that, BUT not being a daily driver, Zaino can bring out the qualities of the paint.. ie Pearls and Metallics, 200% over the Ceramics.It is a matter of understanding what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote and what products Zaino has to promote it.
you won;t beat a Ceramic for the qualities it has on a daily driver, they are simply awesome and I love the product. My test vehicle has 4 different products on it as a daily driver and even driven in inclement weather without washing it, still looks stunning
03-12-2018, 12:30 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Silicon Valley and Yosemite, CA
Posts: 5,511
Received 635 Likes
on
341 Posts
What ceramic have you used that is not as shiny as Zaino? Don't get me wrong, I still use the CS clear and Z-8 on everything else. And I will probably use the Z-8 as a detailer over top of Ceramic Pro Plus. But Zaino does not come close to the depth of color and shine. Maybe it's the type of ceramic? I am not trying to argue, just understand.
I have used Ceramic Pro, which I consider a mediocre shine, but the self cleaning and scratch resistance are next to none and the lifetime warranty is the best.
Kamikaze which by far out of the products out there that I have tried has a better shine. But does not match what I can do with Zaino. ISM has just a bit brighter shine than Miyabi, but over the long haul does not have the long lasting qualities of Miyabi
Gyeon, which is the same as Ceramic Pro, it has a nice shine but is missing the WOW factor my shop delivers with Zaino.
Won't get into the weirdness of applying as a pro installer, but these clowns are so artificial it is unbeleivable.
Feynlabs has the best shine and parallels what Zaino does as far as what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote.
I have my own personal car with every panel a different product on it.
When I show the car to my customers, the Zaino or Feynlab panel wins every time for quality.
I have tried several others, but they simply did not match up to the above 3.
DO NOT put Z-8 over a Ceramic coating. Use l Polish Angel High Gloss
or
or Kamikaze Overcoat
These detail sprays are specific to Ceramic/Quarts coatings.
When you wash use a wash specifically for ceramic coatings. Autogeek has several.
The car washes have specific chemicals that not only preserve the ceramic coating, but increases the "hydrophobic" qualities, and I hate that word. Bottom line it helps with the self cleaning qualities of the ceramic, maintains the shine and other ceramic properties.
Regular car washes will destroy the self cleaning/hydrophobic qualities of the coating.
The following users liked this post:
BudgetPlan1 (03-12-2018)
03-12-2018, 05:15 PM
#19
Cliff Notes
Zaino - simple to use with Clear Seal and Z-8
Promotes what the paint manufacturer is trying to show(Pearls and Metallics) that make the finish beyond incredible
Daily driver issues - not good with bird stuff or water spots.
Not impervious to scratches
Low to Moderate Cost
Excellent for garage queens
Ceramics - Incredible self cleaning
Impervious to most scratches
Excellent water beading and water runoff(hydrophobic, hate the word)
So slick nothing sticks to it
Very high cost
While BudgetPlan1 did his PHD dissertations, simply put Zaino has a much higher quality shine and brings out the manufacturer's paint qualities much better than the Ceramics.
I will still recommend Zaino over the Ceramics, based on the car and what the owner does with it.
It is true Zaino does not have the daily driver qualities of the Ceramics. Ceramics cannot be beat for that, BUT not being a daily driver, Zaino can bring out the qualities of the paint.. ie Pearls and Metallics, 200% over the Ceramics.It is a matter of understanding what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote and what products Zaino has to promote it.
you won;t beat a Ceramic for the qualities it has on a daily driver, they are simply awesome and I love the product. My test vehicle has 4 different products on it as a daily driver and even driven in inclement weather without washing it, still looks stunning
Zaino - simple to use with Clear Seal and Z-8
Promotes what the paint manufacturer is trying to show(Pearls and Metallics) that make the finish beyond incredible
Daily driver issues - not good with bird stuff or water spots.
Not impervious to scratches
Low to Moderate Cost
Excellent for garage queens
Ceramics - Incredible self cleaning
Impervious to most scratches
Excellent water beading and water runoff(hydrophobic, hate the word)
So slick nothing sticks to it
Very high cost
While BudgetPlan1 did his PHD dissertations, simply put Zaino has a much higher quality shine and brings out the manufacturer's paint qualities much better than the Ceramics.
I will still recommend Zaino over the Ceramics, based on the car and what the owner does with it.
It is true Zaino does not have the daily driver qualities of the Ceramics. Ceramics cannot be beat for that, BUT not being a daily driver, Zaino can bring out the qualities of the paint.. ie Pearls and Metallics, 200% over the Ceramics.It is a matter of understanding what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote and what products Zaino has to promote it.
you won;t beat a Ceramic for the qualities it has on a daily driver, they are simply awesome and I love the product. My test vehicle has 4 different products on it as a daily driver and even driven in inclement weather without washing it, still looks stunning
Duragloss..... SAME STUFF AS ZAINO, less cost.
03-12-2018, 06:34 PM
#20
I get where you are coming from and keep in mind, I have spent hours upon hours working with various Zaino products to get not just the best shine, that promotes the Pearl and Metallic look.
I have used Ceramic Pro, which I consider a mediocre shine, but the self cleaning and scratch resistance are next to none and the lifetime warranty is the best.
Kamikaze which by far out of the products out there that I have tried has a better shine. But does not match what I can do with Zaino. ISM has just a bit brighter shine than Miyabi, but over the long haul does not have the long lasting qualities of Miyabi
Gyeon, which is the same as Ceramic Pro, it has a nice shine but is missing the WOW factor my shop delivers with Zaino.
Won't get into the weirdness of applying as a pro installer, but these clowns are so artificial it is unbeleivable.
Feynlabs has the best shine and parallels what Zaino does as far as what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote.
I have my own personal car with every panel a different product on it.
When I show the car to my customers, the Zaino or Feynlab panel wins every time for quality.
I have tried several others, but they simply did not match up to the above 3.
DO NOT put Z-8 over a Ceramic coating. Use l Polish Angel High Gloss
or
or Kamikaze Overcoat
These detail sprays are specific to Ceramic/Quarts coatings.
When you wash use a wash specifically for ceramic coatings. Autogeek has several.
The car washes have specific chemicals that not only preserve the ceramic coating, but increases the "hydrophobic" qualities, and I hate that word. Bottom line it helps with the self cleaning qualities of the ceramic, maintains the shine and other ceramic properties.
Regular car washes will destroy the self cleaning/hydrophobic qualities of the coating.
I have used Ceramic Pro, which I consider a mediocre shine, but the self cleaning and scratch resistance are next to none and the lifetime warranty is the best.
Kamikaze which by far out of the products out there that I have tried has a better shine. But does not match what I can do with Zaino. ISM has just a bit brighter shine than Miyabi, but over the long haul does not have the long lasting qualities of Miyabi
Gyeon, which is the same as Ceramic Pro, it has a nice shine but is missing the WOW factor my shop delivers with Zaino.
Won't get into the weirdness of applying as a pro installer, but these clowns are so artificial it is unbeleivable.
Feynlabs has the best shine and parallels what Zaino does as far as what the paint manufacturer is trying to promote.
I have my own personal car with every panel a different product on it.
When I show the car to my customers, the Zaino or Feynlab panel wins every time for quality.
I have tried several others, but they simply did not match up to the above 3.
DO NOT put Z-8 over a Ceramic coating. Use l Polish Angel High Gloss
or
or Kamikaze Overcoat
These detail sprays are specific to Ceramic/Quarts coatings.
When you wash use a wash specifically for ceramic coatings. Autogeek has several.
The car washes have specific chemicals that not only preserve the ceramic coating, but increases the "hydrophobic" qualities, and I hate that word. Bottom line it helps with the self cleaning qualities of the ceramic, maintains the shine and other ceramic properties.
Regular car washes will destroy the self cleaning/hydrophobic qualities of the coating.
The following users liked this post:
Grzldvt1 (03-19-2018)