Notices
Car Care Discussion Car Detailing Info, Wax, Wheel Polish, Interior Cleaning Tips for the Corvette
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Teach me on what I need for ceramic coatings

 
Old 03-04-2019, 11:30 AM
  #1  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default Teach me on what I need for ceramic coatings

So I have the new black GS, cannot afford Xpel after laying out this much cash, and I want to coat it instead for some protection before spring kicks up. I've never really used anything but Meguiars in the past (#7, #26, etc) and always done things by hand, so I don't have any kind of polisher other than the little
DA polisher that Meguiars sells DA polisher that Meguiars sells
that fits into an electric drill, that little thing was a god send.

I was recently gifted a couple big bottles of Blackfire SiO2 spray sealant, which I tested out on my red 88. I thought that stuff was great, but I know it doesn't last more than 6 months on a garage queen? I don't really know these new sealants well. Carnauba is as far as I've ever gone. As part of the gift I was given a bottle of Blackfire ceramic coating and several trial samples of other stuff they make.

I want to test this out on my black Tacoma first. I don't care if I mess that up since the clearcoat is wearing off in some spots anyway. I've watched videos on the paint prep required before coating, but I need a specific list of what I need to do to prep, and what I need to buy as far as a good DA polisher, the pads I need, how many microfiber cloths I need, the order I need to use the products, and the products themselves that I need to apply in order before trying the coating out.

Can somebody talk to me like a complete n00b about this and tell me what i need, especially on the prep steps?

Last edited by vader86; 03-04-2019 at 02:46 PM.
vader86 is offline  
Old 03-04-2019, 02:14 PM
  #2  
Adam's Polish
Premium Supporting Vendor
 
Adam's Polish's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,686
Received 96 Likes on 87 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15-'16-'17
Default

Check out our video, it may help.
Let me know if you have any question after you watch.

__________________
w w w . a d a m s p o l i s h e s . c o m
e: [email protected] | p: [866] 965 - 0400
use the code VETTE to save on your next purchase
Adam's Polish is offline  
Old 03-04-2019, 02:58 PM
  #3  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

I've watched it, doesn't tell me enough about preparation beforehand.

Wash first, clay bar next, what product to remove swirls with what kind of pad, what the next product is with what pad for finer scratches? Iron remover necessary? when? What is best DA polisher to use for someone who doesn't use it but a few times a year?

How many microfiber towels to expect to use at each step for 1 car, right quality of microfiber towel to use. I want to have it all in hand when I start that morning.

I've seen videos on preparation, but I'm looking for more step-by-step and exactly what products to use at each step, whether it be blackfire/autogeek stuff or other.
vader86 is offline  
Old 03-05-2019, 01:11 AM
  #4  
Grzldvt1
CF Senior Member
 
Grzldvt1's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Laguna Hills, CA
Posts: 4,360
Received 299 Likes on 174 Posts
Default

I would love to spend time posting my pro experience, but am completely booked up heading to the SoCal deseret for a photo opportunity and in the middle of packing. Look for my posts in this section about prep for Ceramic and my recommendations and look for BudgetPlan1's posts. Sorry just dropped in for a few minutes..

Last edited by Grzldvt1; 03-05-2019 at 01:12 AM.
Grzldvt1 is online now  
The following users liked this post:
BudgetPlan1 (03-05-2019)
Old 03-05-2019, 12:30 PM
  #5  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Grzldvt1 View Post
I would love to spend time posting my pro experience, but am completely booked up heading to the SoCal deseret for a photo opportunity and in the middle of packing. Look for my posts in this section about prep for Ceramic and my recommendations and look for BudgetPlan1's posts. Sorry just dropped in for a few minutes..
I am and have been, I'm just trying to build a coherent picture in my head of the steps, particularly the polishing and correction steps.

1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Polish/swirl removing (? what to do here)
4. Wipe off residues with rubbing alcohol
5. apply coating, you guys seem to like Kamikaze alot for n00bs, i'm at least going to test this sample of blackfire out on the truck
vader86 is offline  
Old 03-05-2019, 12:52 PM
  #6  
BudgetPlan1
CF Senior Member
 
BudgetPlan1's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: NE OH
Posts: 5,928
Received 191 Likes on 134 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Default

Although Gyeon Mohs-focused, this is a nice vid of the overall process:

Generally the steps are similar for all but some individuals pick/choose based on paint condition:

1. Wash Car
2. Chemical Decontamination with something like Gyeon Iron or similar; tar remover like Gyeon Tar as needed to remove Tar and other stubborn goo
3. Mechanical decontamination with claybar or synthetic clay like a Nanoskin Clay Mitt
4. Correct paint, compound then polish or maybe just polish...depends on paint condition
5. Wipe down with panel wipe like Gyeon Prep to remove polishing oils/residue
6. Apply coating

As for specific tools and other products, the possibilities are endless but the following may be appropriate in a 'general' sense:

Griots Garage 6" DA w/ 5" backing plate added to order
Compound: 8oz bottle of Jescar Compound
Polish: 8oz bottle of Jescar Finishing Polish
Pads: 4-6 of each type, Lake Country 5.5" flat pads, orange for heavier defects (but still generally light stuff), white for final polishing
Towels: something like Rag Company 300gsm or 350gsm, maybe around 10 to start out? Perhaps some plusher 450gsm or so as well

If you really have heavier defects, grab some Meguiars D300 w/ a few of their microfiber cutting discs.

Hard to say exactly what you'll need but that's perhaps a good place to start. The Autopia Forum is a nice place to ask, plenty of info there: https://www.autopia.org/

Autogeek as well: https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/

Lotsa how to stuff on autogeek YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/autogeek

Esoteric has a lot of informational videos as well: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_V...H-WIq25oZWmQEg

Each situation is different and unique so YMMV
BudgetPlan1 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
vader86 (03-05-2019)
Old 03-05-2019, 04:47 PM
  #7  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

So thats good detail to get me started on what to buy, thank you.

What I don't really understand yet is what you would know by experience, what pad to start with and what product to use with each. I realize you'd need to see the paint at each step to give me a definite answer but bear with me.

Say the car has a lot of swirls, I start with the Yellow LC 5.5" pad and the Jescar compound, then do the whole car with that. Do I then go to the orange, then white, to progressively remove smaller and smaller marks with the same compound?

Then when I want to polish, I use green or blue and finally black, with the Jescar finishing polish?
vader86 is offline  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:36 PM
  #8  
BudgetPlan1
CF Senior Member
 
BudgetPlan1's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: NE OH
Posts: 5,928
Received 191 Likes on 134 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Default

Least aggressive first, will have to do a bunch of test spots to find what works.

Jescar Finishing Polish with white pad. If that dont get it, Jescar Finishing Polish with orange pad. Still not good enough then Jescar Compound with orange pad. If that gets defects out, do whole car with it, then follow with Finishing Polish with white pad.

If compound don't get it, D300 w microfiber followed by finishing polish on white.

Or something like that...just gotta try different combos to find what works to your satisfaction. Kinda wanna ease into the least aggressive combo that gets job done to your satisfaction.

I'd skip LC yellow foam; if you're going that aggressive may as well go with microfiber pad and either jescar compound or d300.

I'd guess Autogeek Youtube channel has a vid on polishing paint that explains it better than i.
BudgetPlan1 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
vader86 (03-06-2019)
Old 03-06-2019, 05:53 AM
  #9  
SgtMajUSMC(Ret)
CF Senior Member
 
SgtMajUSMC(Ret)'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2009
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Posts: 166
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Check this out.....

https://www.autogeek.net/detailingtips.html

and watch video part 1 and 2 How to remove swirls here:

https://www.autogeek.net/dual-action-polisher.html
SgtMajUSMC(Ret) is offline  
Old 03-06-2019, 06:00 AM
  #10  
0EricAvalonKing
Former Vendor
 
Member Since: Jan 2019
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Will try not to repeat info others have pointed out and will focus more on things you should look out for as a newbie.

Pretty much the easiest part to get wrong is the prep. Black car, any defects will be visible much more than on any other colors (flipside is the coating will be easier funny enough as it will be very easy to see the coverage and finish before it cures).

Cleaning the car, you really wanna do a powerwash, even if it means driving somewhere and back home, you won't wash it well enough with just a hand wash back home. After the powerwash you do the handwash as well, never move anything on the surface of the vehicle unless going in straight lines (not counting random orbit polishing, different thing). Use only clean microfiber towels and wash mitts, 2 bucket system is ideal for the wash (one bucket exclusive for rinse).

No matter what anyone says, claying the car before polishing is a must in my opinion. As a newbie again, use light pressure, plenty of soapy water as lube, straight line movements only, any good quality softer clay will do. When done, remember to wash the car again, you don't want to polish with soap later. You will know you did good if the surface is smooth when passing your hand over it. If you end up marring the paint don't panic, these would be very shallow no matter how bad it looks, polishing will take care of it easy. Be methodical overall, do sections one by one and make sure you go over every inch.

Only now would you be ready to polish. I usually plan to go over each section of the vehicle in 2-3 passes based on the paint condition. I gotta stress on getting a random orbit polisher as a must and optionally a big diameter finishing stage random orbit polisher (these are usually cheap). The main polisher, use softer pads as a newbie and take your time, with experience you can start "branching out". Finishing stage polisher, use a microfiber cover and pretty much pressure only equivalent of the machine weight. Pro tip, you can use the finishing stage polisher for buffing the ceramic coating at the last stage of the application (only virgin microfiber cover and throw away after use). So, polishing, you can use 2 different compounds, heavier one then a fine cut compound, or just use an all in one like chemical guys scratch and swirl remover.

Once you are happy with the results (pay attention, if you use a polishing compound containing wax it may fool you in the surface looking better then it actually is), I'd wash the car again for good measure, dry with a clear microfiber towel then would do an IPA wipedown (you can use lower concentration ones) to get rid of any excess polishing oils. Use an inspection light, any imperfections, better repeat the process instead of coating if you wanna be perfect.

As for the coating itself, it would vary but I can tell you the steps for ours.

For coating with Armor Shield IX, you would work in sections. Apply first in one direction than another (horizontal, vertical) dropping a few drops onto the application cloths wrapped over the application sponge. Once a section is coated, you wait the allotted time indicated by the instructions and then quick wipe off with one microfiber towel and buff with another (final stage polisher can come in play here, just make sure good quality mf cover and virgin). The surface should feel and look perfectly smooth. Use an inspection light or regular flashlight at a low angle to make sure. Then you move to the next section and so on until the whole car is done. With Armor Shield IX you can do multiple coats if you want to. This would be done, just starting the application procedure from the first panel after you finish the last one.

I'd be glad to assist further at any time so shoot me a reply and will answer as soon as possible.
EricAvalonKing is offline  
The following users liked this post:
jimijam (03-09-2019)
Old 03-06-2019, 12:06 PM
  #11  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

So I see there are multiple clay mitts, some labeled as "fine", some "regular" or "medium", which I assume is something akin to how small a particle they'll easily remove?

I have always used just a Mothers clay bar itself, and clayed the 88 once a year before waxing, so I'm familiar with the bar and not the mitts. I don't know if one way is really any better than the other, or which mitt to get. I just know that I can never let the bar hit the ground.

This truck has never ever been clayed to my knowledge, and its 17 years old. My new GS hasn't either, but its only 3 months old.
vader86 is offline  
Old 03-06-2019, 01:04 PM
  #12  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

Is it at all important to stay within a brand for certain steps outside of the coating? e.g., using one coating brand, but a different pre-coating "prep" (which I'm assuming is bascially just rubbing alcohol anyway) wipe down, and a different post-coating wash soap?
vader86 is offline  
Old 03-07-2019, 03:45 AM
  #13  
0EricAvalonKing
Former Vendor
 
Member Since: Jan 2019
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vader86 View Post
So I see there are multiple clay mitts, some labeled as "fine", some "regular" or "medium", which I assume is something akin to how small a particle they'll easily remove?

I have always used just a Mothers clay bar itself, and clayed the 88 once a year before waxing, so I'm familiar with the bar and not the mitts. I don't know if one way is really any better than the other, or which mitt to get. I just know that I can never let the bar hit the ground.

This truck has never ever been clayed to my knowledge, and its 17 years old. My new GS hasn't either, but its only 3 months old.
On the grading, for example, medium will grab most of the particles easier but might be slightly harder to get the finest contaminants. Fine grade mitts would pick up finer contaminants easier but may be easier to saturate on a heavily contaminated surfaces.

If you are comfortable with a clay bar, I'd stick with that. Clay mitts just make it easier to do the process and are not necessarily better if you know your way around clay bars.
EricAvalonKing is offline  
The following users liked this post:
vader86 (03-08-2019)
Old 03-07-2019, 03:48 AM
  #14  
0EricAvalonKing
Former Vendor
 
Member Since: Jan 2019
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vader86 View Post
Is it at all important to stay within a brand for certain steps outside of the coating? e.g., using one coating brand, but a different pre-coating "prep" (which I'm assuming is bascially just rubbing alcohol anyway) wipe down, and a different post-coating wash soap?
Not important to use the same brand at all. Coating prep, quick tip, choose one without any coloring... (rubbing alcohol will be fine as a one time thing as well, 60% max).
EricAvalonKing is offline  
The following users liked this post:
vader86 (03-08-2019)
Old 03-08-2019, 11:12 AM
  #15  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

I bought a big box of stuff to get started with.

How do you clean foam pads? In the past I've just soaked them in soapy water, agitated a little to remove wax that gets in them, and rinsed/squished them dry. I see various cleaners and agitator brushes and wonder if I need them.

Same question for the microfibers cloths, are there specific cleaners I should use instead?

After applying a coating, are there certain soaps you cannot use, and are there soaps that tend to reinforce the coating with more silica to keep the shine or protective abilities up longer? I've always used Meguiars Ultimate Gold class car wash since it didn't take off all my wax, but I see others are formulated for coated cars.

Last edited by vader86; 03-08-2019 at 11:13 AM.
vader86 is offline  
Old 03-08-2019, 07:24 PM
  #16  
SXGT
CF Member
 
SXGT's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2018
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

SXGT is offline  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:56 AM
  #17  
0EricAvalonKing
Former Vendor
 
Member Since: Jan 2019
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vader86 View Post
I bought a big box of stuff to get started with.

How do you clean foam pads? In the past I've just soaked them in soapy water, agitated a little to remove wax that gets in them, and rinsed/squished them dry. I see various cleaners and agitator brushes and wonder if I need them.

Same question for the microfibers cloths, are there specific cleaners I should use instead?

After applying a coating, are there certain soaps you cannot use, and are there soaps that tend to reinforce the coating with more silica to keep the shine or protective abilities up longer? I've always used Meguiars Ultimate Gold class car wash since it didn't take off all my wax, but I see others are formulated for coated cars.
I'd be very thorough with the pads, if not using anything specialized, just wash them by hand a bunch of times over to really make sure they are fully cleaned up.

Microfiber cloths can do in the washing machine, you can do a hand wash after as a safety measure.

After applying the coating, I'd say, any car-specific wax free shampoo is gonna be perfect. much more important to use the proper wash techniques. There are specific shampoos of course as well but in my opinion, for a good ceramic coat its just not needed.
EricAvalonKing is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 05:30 PM
  #18  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

Well I tried out the process on my truck, all went very well. I needed to use Jescar compound with the orange pad and it got nearly all scratches out, probably 90-95%. The amount of orange peel on this toyota is excessive so I'll never get the crystal clear shine without having a professional wet-sand it out, but I'm happy with the coating.

I did wash, gyeon iron, gyeon tar, mothers clay bar, polish, a paint prep solution and finally one coat of Blackfire ceramic.

How critical is it that the vehicle remain in the garage over the next week to prevent being rained on? How long is an optimum time to cure, and does that process speed up or do better when left in the sunlight?
vader86 is offline  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:03 AM
  #19  
Grzldvt1
CF Senior Member
 
Grzldvt1's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Laguna Hills, CA
Posts: 4,360
Received 299 Likes on 174 Posts
Default

EXCELLENT! I love the Jescar product. The Blackfire product only needs 12 hours to fully cure, so you are good to go pretty much the next day
Grzldvt1 is online now  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:46 AM
  #20  
vader86
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 50,887
Received 292 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

So what is the primary difference you guys see when you try out different brands of coating?

Are more coats better or do multiples detract from the shine?
vader86 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Teach me on what I need for ceramic coatings


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: