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Help with coating choice

 
Old 05-14-2019, 09:48 AM
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kzoo-z
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Default Help with coating choice

I have my Dark Bowling Green C-5 scheduled for a detail, paint correction, and coating in the near future and need some opinions on coating options.

The car is in Michigan.
Self cleaning is important.
I like high gloss (unless there are cons to this option I am not aware of).
It is a hobby car mainly.
Also interested in durability.

My choices for coating are:

(1 Year)
SB3 Solo
Feynlab Ceramic Lite
IGL Poly

(2 Year)
IGL Quartz
SB3 Omega

(3 Year)
Feynlab Ceramic
IGL Quartz+

(4 Year)
IGL Kenzo

(5 Year)
Feynlab Ceramic+
Feynlab Heal Lite
SB3 Alpha

Lots of choices I know. This is how they have them grouped and the prices obviously increase with each grouping.
I am just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or experience with any of the products.
The length of time I am going to keep the car is fluid at best so it doesn't really help me with the decision.

Thanks for any help or thoughts anyone may have.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:48 AM
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yamabob
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Feynlab Ceramic Lite
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by yamabob View Post
Feynlab Ceramic Lite
Thanks yamabob I have heard it is a good choice for the money.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:55 PM
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BudgetPlan1
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Looks like you're leaning towards a Professionally Installed coating as opposed to DIY, correct?

I don't have familiarity with most of the pro-only coatings mentioned but have had the chance to use Feynlab Ceramic + Feynlab Topcoat. It is easily *the* most brilliant coating I have used, has almost a sealant/Zaino look to it. Self-cleaning water behavior was a bit behind some of my (Prosumer) favorites but overall an excellent, made-in-the-USA choice.

Be sure to maintain realistic expectations; coatings are great and all (for me, anyway) but they are not without their drawbacks.

You’ll never know for sure how durability will really turn out until you actually try it in your climate and your situation. Some things can be estimated by finding others experiences in similar conditions and usage but that’s still just an educated guess.

We have 3 cars with considerably different usage patterns; all protected with same set of products (Kamikaze)
  • Car 1 will likely get to 3 years (if not longer) before needing to be completely redone.
  • Car 2 will likely never need to be redone.
  • Car 3 will get to 2 years at the most before needing to be redone.
  1. Car 1 is about 5500 miles a year, no freeway, sits outside from April thru November but only really driven daily November thru April, short trips, no freeway.
  2. Car 2 is daily driver in nice weather, April thru November, usually no-rain days only, always garaged, 5500 miles a year, rarely freeway.
  3. Car 3 is year round daily driver, generally always garaged, 25k miles a year, 95% freeway.
All are in NE Ohio.

Same protection, varying usage far different likely outcomes. Freeway use, especially during winter, is very, very hard on a vehicles finish.

Having seen a lot of faded cars last time I was in Arizona, I’m guessing they have a whole different kind of nightmare to deal with, entire different set of circumstances to cope with. Florida apparently has acid-filled Love Bugs that can etch paint if left for too long…another nightmare entirely.

Point being, no claims listed on a box can even begin to adequately predict longevity. It’s the ultimate YMMV scenario.

As for claimed hardness and resistance to scratching:

Claims of hardness, scratch resistance and such are, IMO, way over-marketed with coatings. While they may provide some minor resistance to light marring, it’s a harsh world out there and many things (jewelry banging paint around door handles, boxes hitting trunk areas while loading, leaning on hood of vehicle with grimy sweatshirts, etc) *will* leave a mark. Problem with coatings is the only way to remedy those marks/marring is to re-polish (removing coating) and re-coating that area, generally an entire panel as many coatings don’t lend themselves well to spot fixes. If you’re horribly OCD-ish about having a totally defect free car for 2 years, a coating may not be the best way to go…or a ‘lighter’ coating like Gyeon CanCoat may be more appropriate.

Additionally, while trying to wrap my my around it I kinda came up with the following to help understand it in my SiO2 addled mind:

It’s all nonsense marketing. My 2h fingernail will leave a mark on a 10h coating.

The ‘h’ hardness can be measured in 2 different ways, leading to confusion and exaggeration.

The Mohs scale of mineral hardness is a scale characterizing scratch resistance of various minerals through the ability of harder material to scratch softer material.

The Pencil Hardness test employs various graphite pencils of varying hardness to determine the h-hardness measurements. Since even the hardest pencil is still made of graphite (Mohs hardness of 1-2) it seems possible (to me anyway) that even a 9h coating (as measured by the pencil test) is really, comparably, at most a 2h hardness and thus quite easily scratched.

For the purposes of coating hardness, perhaps considering the pencil test a subset of the Mohs test which, although kinda a generalization may be useful for comparative purposes. The pencil test, based upon graphite testing pencils, then translates into a subset of the Mohs

MOHS Scale with Pencil Test Subset (and yeah, I just kinda made this up based upon info I could find)
MOHS Hardness

1 Talc
1.5 Graphite

Pencil Test Subset applicable to coatings using graphite pencils
  • 1h
  • 2h
  • 3h Average Automotive Paint
  • 4h Average Automotive Paint
  • 5h
  • 6h
  • 7h
  • 8h
  • 9h
  • 10h
2 Gypsum
2-2.5 Fingernail
3 Calcite
4 Fluorite
5 Apatite
6 Orthoclase feldspar
7 Quartz
8 Topaz
9 Corundum
10 Diamond

So, given that coatings are measured using the pencil test (graphite) there is no way for a coating to be any harder than 2h measured on the Mohs scale while a fingernail is 2-2.5h on Mohs
  1. Fingernail – 2-2.5h (Mohs)
  2. Clearcoat – 3-4h (Mohs equivalent 1.5h)
  3. A 9h coating – 9h (Mohs Equivalent 1.5h)
While a coating is indeed slightly harder than the generally accepted toughness of clearcoat, the actual difference is likely very, very, VERY small and my fingernail will still goon up a vaunted 10h coating.

So, while a mfg can claim that their 9h coating is ‘more than twice as hard’ as your clearcoat, it’s really not saying much.

Of course there are more than a few other variables that enter into the equation of scratch resistance (substrate hardness, for one) but, for me, the benefits of coating are the resistance to environmental and the self-cleaning characteristics. I stopped caring about scratch resistance long, long ago. Anybody who claims their coating is a barrier to prevent scratches and marring in all but the lightest conditions is over-stating reality. Coatings strengths are chemical resistance to environmental contamination and self/easy cleaning behavior. Beyond that is mostly hype.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:18 PM
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My head hurts with all those words.As usual your awesome input
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by yamabob View Post
My head hurts with all those words.As usual your awesome input
continually wordy but I finally got around to keeping my notes all in one place so usually just a copy/paste of relevant sections: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/gl...amic-coatings/
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by yamabob View Post
My head hurts with all those words.
Yeah, I just skip a lot and trust his advice! LOL
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:51 PM
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kzoo-z
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Thanks BP1 that's great info and I "think" I know what you're getting at.
Yes I am getting it done professionally as I am not up to the task anymore.
I believe there have been positive post in the past about the Feynlab products although I I don't recall which ones.
Of course I don't want to over spend but also I don't want to be disappointed later for lack of knowledge or a couple of hundred dollars not spent. So all input and experience is appreciated.
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