Make a combo from all my parts sitting on the garage floor!
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
You have probably read elsewhere the situation that I am in, so I will not waste time rehashing. Basically all the parts below were sized for a 408, but that will be some time down the road. Pick and match a combo that you think will make the most power (would like to get into the 10s on street tires), and will have to use for approx. 6 months. Then the 408 will go in ...
Car is an '87 roadster (full street trim), ZF6spd, 3.45D44, TPIS 1 3/4" headers, through pipe and 3" rear w/ dual Flowmasters, ATI supercharger (6-7# boost @5400 or 10-11# boost @6000; important for manifold selection), 58MM, BFG G-Force 17", and skinnies/slicks for the track. On street tires, the car will be expected to be able to function as a normal street car if needed.
Parts I have currently have available are:
350 ci shortblock (basically stock)
383 ci shortblock (all forged/billit)
HR cam TPIS 228°/228°, 566I/566E
SR cam CC 236°/244°, 622I/630E
91 D-port heads, LPE stage IV, flow more than AFR 190RRs out of the box, 3/8 1.6 ProMagnums
AFR 190RR, flow numbers previously posted
AFR 210CP heads, flow numbers were previously posted
SR JL-1 intake fully ported w/ base, 1206FP
MRII intake fully ported, humps removed, 1206FP
McLeod dual disk set-up w/ steel flywheel
SPEC Kevlar w/ Al (13#) flywheel
And any miscellaneous items that may be needed to build either.
Car is an '87 roadster (full street trim), ZF6spd, 3.45D44, TPIS 1 3/4" headers, through pipe and 3" rear w/ dual Flowmasters, ATI supercharger (6-7# boost @5400 or 10-11# boost @6000; important for manifold selection), 58MM, BFG G-Force 17", and skinnies/slicks for the track. On street tires, the car will be expected to be able to function as a normal street car if needed.
Parts I have currently have available are:
350 ci shortblock (basically stock)
383 ci shortblock (all forged/billit)
HR cam TPIS 228°/228°, 566I/566E
SR cam CC 236°/244°, 622I/630E
91 D-port heads, LPE stage IV, flow more than AFR 190RRs out of the box, 3/8 1.6 ProMagnums
AFR 190RR, flow numbers previously posted
AFR 210CP heads, flow numbers were previously posted
SR JL-1 intake fully ported w/ base, 1206FP
MRII intake fully ported, humps removed, 1206FP
McLeod dual disk set-up w/ steel flywheel
SPEC Kevlar w/ Al (13#) flywheel
And any miscellaneous items that may be needed to build either.
#2
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Talked with the machinist today. Discussed the fact that I had contacted the TX BBB (but had not filed a formal complaint), and that I had puled the statute on Deceptive Trade Practices Act.
He acted completely suprised that the motor could be as I had stated. He agreed in concept that if it was as said, then I deserve to have what I had paid for (408 ci with billit and custom components). He said he would look into it. Late this afternoon he called back and said that my block has another customers rotating assembly in it and he apoligized for the mix up (I'm not sure I am buying this story!). He has my crank and rods at his shop as we speak. But he can't seem to find the pistons. He is going to contact Callies (for JE custom pistons) in the AM to determine if the pistons were ever shipped out. If they have them great, if not @ minimum 6 wks to receipt.
He already asked if I wanted to go ahead and run the 383 for the interim. The 16cc dish in the pistons yield a 10.2:1 c.r., compared to the 9.5:1 c.r. specified for the 408, and the 11.2:1 c.r. that I was running in the 350. So the question is:
1) Is the SR cam as listed above too big for the little 383?
2) Thoughts on using the AFR 210CP's as well?
3) What about the MRII? This thing is hogged to match the 1206FP for the heads.
4) Anybody think there will be tuning issues?
5) Too much compression with the 10-11# boost? The old motor only allowed 6-7# due to the lower RPM range.
Thanks for any insight that can be provided.
Aaron
He acted completely suprised that the motor could be as I had stated. He agreed in concept that if it was as said, then I deserve to have what I had paid for (408 ci with billit and custom components). He said he would look into it. Late this afternoon he called back and said that my block has another customers rotating assembly in it and he apoligized for the mix up (I'm not sure I am buying this story!). He has my crank and rods at his shop as we speak. But he can't seem to find the pistons. He is going to contact Callies (for JE custom pistons) in the AM to determine if the pistons were ever shipped out. If they have them great, if not @ minimum 6 wks to receipt.
He already asked if I wanted to go ahead and run the 383 for the interim. The 16cc dish in the pistons yield a 10.2:1 c.r., compared to the 9.5:1 c.r. specified for the 408, and the 11.2:1 c.r. that I was running in the 350. So the question is:
1) Is the SR cam as listed above too big for the little 383?
2) Thoughts on using the AFR 210CP's as well?
3) What about the MRII? This thing is hogged to match the 1206FP for the heads.
4) Anybody think there will be tuning issues?
5) Too much compression with the 10-11# boost? The old motor only allowed 6-7# due to the lower RPM range.
Thanks for any insight that can be provided.
Aaron
#3
Le Mans Master
i don't know jack about superchargers, but i think the solid roller in the 383 with 210s & the MR would make a pretty strong combo.
probably would have low low 11 or high 10 potential assuming the rest of the car is optimized for the combo. With street tires??? who knows??? You will definitely be traction limitied.
sounds like you've got enough stuff for two strong engines. i'll give you $1000 for the 383 short block.....
probably would have low low 11 or high 10 potential assuming the rest of the car is optimized for the combo. With street tires??? who knows??? You will definitely be traction limitied.
sounds like you've got enough stuff for two strong engines. i'll give you $1000 for the 383 short block.....
#4
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Talked with the machine shop again today. They have everything but the pistons in their posession. Their are a set of custom J&E pistons sitting at J&E that were supposed to be delivered to the shop. He says they can have everything here by Friday, balanced by Tuesday. If I have the 383 at his shop by Wednesday AM, he says it can be complete by next Friday. He started bringing up talk about parts that he didn't think were paid for, when the previous invoice was paid in full. It seems to me he may be trying to recoupe his extra time in making this deal right.
Bottom line, I don't fully trust this shop, and am worried about returning what I feel is a good 383 with the potential of getting a bad deal on the correct 408. Any thoughts? I don't want to put the 383 in the car, but I also don't want to come up short on the 408 because he is bitter.
My opinion, if he had done it right in the beginning, we would not be doing it again.
Aaron
Bottom line, I don't fully trust this shop, and am worried about returning what I feel is a good 383 with the potential of getting a bad deal on the correct 408. Any thoughts? I don't want to put the 383 in the car, but I also don't want to come up short on the 408 because he is bitter.
My opinion, if he had done it right in the beginning, we would not be doing it again.
Aaron
#5
Le Mans Master
sell me the 383 for a grand and be done with it...LOL
Let him build the 408 that you paid for. But i would stay close to it. stop by everyday to check progress. ask a lot of questions about clearances and stuff to make sure he has the right answers. Call JE and see if he is on the level with you about the pistons. i don't think they will screw it up just to get back at you. This assumes that this is a decent reputible shop to begin with, and i assume you checked them out before you gave them your business in the first place.
On the other hand, the guy has to be a hoople head to build the wrong engine for you, although i could see how it could happen, particularly if there are a few different people working there independently.
I think if his story checks out and you stay close to it, you'll get what you want.
good luck
Let him build the 408 that you paid for. But i would stay close to it. stop by everyday to check progress. ask a lot of questions about clearances and stuff to make sure he has the right answers. Call JE and see if he is on the level with you about the pistons. i don't think they will screw it up just to get back at you. This assumes that this is a decent reputible shop to begin with, and i assume you checked them out before you gave them your business in the first place.
On the other hand, the guy has to be a hoople head to build the wrong engine for you, although i could see how it could happen, particularly if there are a few different people working there independently.
I think if his story checks out and you stay close to it, you'll get what you want.
good luck
#6
Safety Car
Wow... those are some nice parts to have laying around the garage. Not sure what to do, but looks like a couple of combinations could be put together to make some respectable power..... what ever you do, don't sell Ralph your 383... thats all I need is him going to a 383 and making me look bad.
cheers,
Beach
cheers,
Beach
#8
Safety Car
Thread Starter
His excuse? Totally innocent, he just put someone else's rotating assembly in my block. Yeah right!
The crank roda and correct pistons are going tyo be balanced on Monday/Tuesday. Upon seeing the balanced assembly, I will leave the block to have the assembly installed. He says he can have it complete by this Friday (08/02). I will cross my fingers.
BTW, I wound up pulling a piston, and the bores are 0.030 over, w/ forged Oliver 6.0" rods and SRP pistons. The dish is only 18cc, this would have been almost 11.0:1 like the old motor.
Hopefully this mess will be over shortly. I have my fingers crossed.
It did give me time to eliminate all the factory fuel lines and replace with -6AN from the filter forward to the MRII through the FMU and back to the common return line. I also replumbed the 2nd fuel system in -4AN line from the regulator to the fuel log for all the solenoids. This will be much neater than the factory set-up.
It appears I will have to grind on the RH side fuel rail to clear the distributor cap. That's next.
Aaron
The crank roda and correct pistons are going tyo be balanced on Monday/Tuesday. Upon seeing the balanced assembly, I will leave the block to have the assembly installed. He says he can have it complete by this Friday (08/02). I will cross my fingers.
BTW, I wound up pulling a piston, and the bores are 0.030 over, w/ forged Oliver 6.0" rods and SRP pistons. The dish is only 18cc, this would have been almost 11.0:1 like the old motor.
Hopefully this mess will be over shortly. I have my fingers crossed.
It did give me time to eliminate all the factory fuel lines and replace with -6AN from the filter forward to the MRII through the FMU and back to the common return line. I also replumbed the 2nd fuel system in -4AN line from the regulator to the fuel log for all the solenoids. This will be much neater than the factory set-up.
It appears I will have to grind on the RH side fuel rail to clear the distributor cap. That's next.
Aaron
#9
Race Director
Originally Posted by AKS Racing
It appears I will have to grind on the RH side fuel rail to clear the distributor cap. That's next.
[/color]
OR convert to the smaller cap with remote mount coil...
That is what I plan to do next time. I have not ground the right fuel rail on my miniram.. It is timed correctly and don't have much room for pplay but it works