ralph

is anybody running a rated stall greater than 3200 with a superrammed engine. Please provide short times, outline of combo and any before and after info.

I'm not happy with my short times & I'm considering loosening up my converter. its rated at 2800 and probably flashes to 3000-3200. my current short times are usually 1.65-1.70, and that is not much better than when i first built the car (when i was using the stock converter, 3.07 gear and made less HP). I feel that i should be shorting around 5 hundredths quicker.

J Z06

I recall you not liking your 60'. I think Beach Bum goes in the 1.5's routinely with a Vig 3000. Also, Bill C with His former car...an LPE 420 with Rossler/Vig3000 did a few 1.46's(NOS) as well. I'll see if I can get Him to come over and post here. I'll also assume you wanted N/A times only?

How's 'Ole Betsy coming along?

ralph

Thanks for the response JD.

Ol'Betsy is recovering nicely. Got her fired up again on sunday and still have to retoque the heads this week before she is fully recovered.

Yes, i'd like NA times and hopefully a combo as close to mine as possible. I know Beach is in the 1.5s, but it's a 383 and i think his rated stall is 3000. I'm trying to figure out if adding stall (within reason) will make an improvment with a SR.

Beach Bum

Ralph,

When I ordered my rated 3000 rpm Vigalante, I had the option of ordering a "Loose" or "Tight" 3000 rpm converter as per their words. I said give me the Loose one, thus I assume my converter is on the looser side of 3000 rpm. It does flash right up to around 3600 rpm.

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing you have a tight 2800 rpm converter, and based upon your reported flash stalls of 3000-3100 rpm, I'd bet a nickel thats the case... or in otherwords your converter could probably be sold as a 2600 rpm converter as well. And might explain why your converter only flashes up to around 3000 rpm. With your Power to weight ratio, I too think you should be able to break into the 1.5's.

What were your 60 foots last year when you were in tune and running good ?

Here is some testing I did a while ago for you, and I think I forwarded it to you, but not sure:

Shiftmaster:

Baseline: 3000 rpm flash

1.635
11.727
115.84

increased flash to 3400 rpm

1.607
11.662
116.08

increased flash to 3600 rpm

1.589
11.639
116.15

increased flash to 4000 rpm

1.583
11.61
116.75

increased flash to 4500 rpm

1.584
11.62
116.41
Didn't like this one.

Looks like more stall up to around 4000 rpm flash would add et... above that it appears to go backwards.

With my power curve, Shiftmaster has my 60 foots nailed perfectly with a 3600 rpm flash.

I say yes, add some stall, however in the summer months, not sure if you're going to see the 60 fts that you want.

later
Beach

ralph

My best short time last year was 1.63 but most were around 1.65 in good conditions and this year they are closer to high 1.6s or higher in hot crappy conditions or siamesed runners

beach, how do you know that you are flashing to 3600??? i'm guessing 3000 based on part throttle runs in the street that will flash to about 2900. If i push too hard, i just spin and the tach jumps way up. I've never checked it at the track, but assume it would be difficult to get an accurate reading. thanks for reminding of the work you did on shiftmaster; the EA sim gives me nothing!!!

i'm just about out of things to try. i know cutting the runners doesn't work, i don't think head work will do much unless i can get the intake to flow better...and i think i'm at the edge of loosing low end torque if i go much larger (maybe an extrude honing?). A different cam might help, but that is a tricky call and a lot of work. i know gears won't help. going to try 1.7 rockers, but the converter might be the best bang for the buck; i dunno...i'm about outa ideas. maybe i'm gett'n all there is in this combo.

the other related problem i've been fighing this year has been traction. etowns hook has been questionable particularly during or after a street car event. usually i can tell when i'm hooking good and when i don't hook...i'm seeing 1.7s. These ET street worked good until the end of last year and this year is worse. they are about 1 1/2 years old, but only used for about 6 months and very few passes. i'm not even near the wear bars, but they are not working too great...at least not at etown.

Beach Bum

Ralph,

I base my flash guestimate on what the tach says on launch on a sticky surface at the dragstrip... it is the 1st rpm I see. Not 100% accurate, but as you know, how else can you do it with an 85 ecm. As a note, my foot brake stall is only around 1600-1800 rpm with my brand new brakes.

From the looks of it, I think all you need is a hair more stall and a new 383 short block and you're looking at 1.50 flat 60's and 11.2's.... that'd be fun.

Sounds like your track is slacking off in the track prep department... has there been a change in management at E-town ? Or perhaps the car counts have been low so they're trying to count pennies by cutting back on the VHT (Stuffs expensive).

I don't buy into the old excuse some tracks use for slipping.. "Too many street tire cars to make the track hook"... Carlsbad techs love to say that one, but its junk in my mind. When Pomona was running, they would have exactly 500 racecars, in which a solid 300 were running a radial tire, however the 1st hook was just as good as the last one, they kept it sticky. Yes, street tires do tear up the groove, but if you have a dedicated track employee who stands behind the starter and constantly maintains, touches-up, cleans and keeps the pad dry, you can hook all day even with 300 street tire cars... Pomona proved that. However, Carlsbad lays a "little" bit of VHT out in the morning.... and thats typically it, there is nobody to touch up the track.... street tire cars will take the grip from this track without any attention from anybody... and it does.

later
Beach

ralph

yo, where did that 383 short block come from...LOL

i know the car is making decent HP and it should have above avg low end torque with the SR...i think i should be consistently in the low to mid 1.6s with some high 1.5s in good conditions. I think this converter is a lttle tight or something, becuase it didn't make much of a difference over the stock unit...which was one of my biggest disappointments (right behind cutting the runners...LOL). My car is lighter than Brians and i'm trapping faster then him, but my short times aren't there.

i agree with you on the track prep too. I can tell you, etown has a lot of rubber layered on the line. on a hot day when the street cars hit, the rubber gets ripped up pretty bad and you can see rubber marbles and bare concrete all over the groove (if you can still call it that). Some of the racers are starting to complain to mgmt, so maybe they will pay closer attention to the track conditions, but i doubt it. i think they need to give it a good scrape down and a new application of VHT and new rubber. then maintain the VHT during the day. but I think they feel it is a losing proposition with the street tires digging it up, and just don't bother maintaining it like they should. if i were the only one having problems i would think differently. i'll bet it is well prepped on Sunday, but i'd rather head up to leb valley on Sundays and not fight the NJ traffic.

btw, Mackey has been able to hook his 28in x a mile wide drag radials with less than perfect track conditions. The tires are a tight fit, but he doesn't have to swap tires, he's hooking better than most of us and his short times are strong in the mid 1.6s. Something you might wanna consider. The taller tire shouldn't hurt our combo either...will make the 3.45 look like a 3.20 or so.

Doug Flynn

After talking to racers, and seeing it for myself, I think tires don't go bad necessarily when they wear, but more over time. I had some say that if they are a year old with runs on them, they are no good (if you need all the traction they can deliver when new).

I've run Hoosier QT Pro's and ET Streets. The Hoosiers worked great, then just gave up, even with tread left. The Streets don't seem to hook as good. I'm trying to buy one new set in the beginning of each year rather then in the middle and having them sit over the winter. My car 60's around 1.68 when it hooks.

All you guys have pretty good 60's. To get in the 1.5's in a street car is really good. I wouldn't be too dissapointed with how they run now! Although you always want more.

When I talked to one guy about traction problems and mentioned my tires sat over the winter, he said forget it and buy new tires. Just some thoughts.

ralph

Doug, that is a good point and one that i have considered. i don't really remember when i bought these tires, but they are around 1 1/2 years old (might have sat for TWO winters). They were brand new on another set of rims in my shed for almost a year, then at the end of last season, my other tires were worn and i switched rims. They probably only have about 30 runs on them. But like you said they are old and like you i've been trying to get thru the season with them so i could by new in the spring. i'm not the only one complaining about traction though. you can see that the groove is ripped up. However if the problems continue, i'll have to spring for new tires...mid season again :-(

btw what are the rest of your times and your car???

Beach Bum

Doug,

Thats interesting. I've read an article where the eliminator guys store their tires in a certain position to keep well rounded and that some will soak them in VHT if they are going to sit for longer than 2 months. Which mine never have.

I really don't have traction problems except at Carlsbad, everywhere else I hook well. At the last SuperChevy show every single pass was a chassis bending full hook. Whereas at Carlsbad if you get 2 hooks in a row you're literally excited.

As a note to what you're saying about our slicks just sitting around over time and losing their group... makes me think to myself, how long were my ET Streets sitting in a distributors warehouse somewhere before I bought them. Especially since I use the fairly rare 16" ET Street.

cheers,
Beach Bum

Beach Bum

Ralph,

Do you know what rim size I can use with Mackeys 28" drag radial. Also what are the specs on those radials, I've never seen them listed. I assume they are a 275-315 tire, and probably for a 17" rim ??

I would absolutely love to just go ahead and run my front skinnie radials on the front and big drag radials on the back 100% of the time... I'd never go to true street radials again... but I have my doubts if those tires are going to hold my current 1.55-1.60 60 fts, and with planned modifications, I can hope my 60's will drop down to the 1.50-1.55 area.... that would be very tough for drag radials.

later
Beach

Vic'89

Beach

Mackey runs a 15" rim, not sure what size the tires are. There is a picture of them on the Corvette Challenge web page.

Vic

ralph

Beach, Vic is right, Mackey's rims are 15"x 10 or 11 with something like 315 BFGs. The larger side wall helps and the contact patch is much larger with the wide, 28in tall tires. I don't know if they will hold you or not, but i can tell you, John is hooking more consistently than i am and his 60s have been a little quicker too. They are a tight fit and i think they rub skirt slightly. You should check with Mackey on the exact details and remember that you do not need as much set back on the 85 rear (close to an inch difference). It is an expensive conversion though..the rims are about $150ea plus the at least that for the tires...add mounting, balancing, tax etc. and you're probably looking at over $700.

btw, does anybody make a 26-27in tall slick that will fit a 16in rim. I really don't need to run DOT tires for most events i enter, so why not go to a straight slick..period. Problem is i don't see any (reasonable sized) slicks for 16 in rims. Maybe i'll call MT and Goodyear tomorrow. any guesses on who will pick up the NHRA sponsorship now that winston is out?? Nah screw it...that'll make a good thread of its own.

Beach Bum

At $ 700 it would still be worth it in the long run... I am so burnt out doing at least a 2 tire change at the track and sometimes I'm changing all 4... I'd rather be chatting with the other racers or having a Track Dog or something.

I assume Mackey is putting in a rollbar ?? So I'm gonna wait and see what his 60 foots come down too when he can run in the 11's legally... and see what his feelings are with the drag radials after some more quality time spent with them.

So what have you decided on the stall ? I assume Pro-torque will give you your 1 free adjustment, thus you only have the removal and installation work plus fluids making it a fairly cheap modification in the general scope of things.

later
Beach

ralph

Beach, i'll probably have it done near the end of the season or over the winter. right now i would just like to actually use the car for a while.

I'm watching Mackey too, but so far that setup is working, even without 400lbs of tools in the back....lol

Doug Flynn

Ralph,
I have a 72 Nova. 383, EFI, T400 (used to be 700R), old Dart heads, roller cam and a single plane I converted to EFI. 3.73's 3500 converter, and 3500 lbs.

For what I have, it should run quicker, but anyhow. Runs 12.1's at 110 with 1.68-1.70 60'. It's a street car I drive to the track. I try to race about every weekend.

Your car and Beach's run very well. I'm looking for solid 11's in hot air with my current combo. Just need to keep tweeking.



[This message has been edited by Doug Flynn (edited 07-25-2001).]

jpee

Beach..

Mackey is running BFGs 325/50x15 His best 60' has been 1.64 in HOT weather, & a marginal track...

On the same day I was 60' in 1.72 with my 275/50x15 Nittos..

Only difference is later in the day he was still 1.6x & I was 1.90

As soon as my 275 wear out, I'll go to the bigger tire.. I know with my set up I'll lose some ET.. but its worth it if I can be consistent..

mackeyred96

They are BFG drag radials 325x50x15 mounted on 15x10 with 7.5 backspacing Well drag lites.
The tires are 28" dia.
12.9 section width
10.5 tread width

Best part is the tall side wall, you get some tire squat and as of now I never gone below 20 PSI.

I also still have the stock rear suspenion and original bilstien with 95,000 miles on them.
I feel there is a hole lot that can be done in this area.