Cam recommendations 540 Build 1966 Coupe
03-18-2007, 06:42 PM
#21
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c66 it would be very helpful to find out what cfm the heads flowed at
different lifts... if you don't know this then cam recomendations are going to be a guess..and the guess could be wrong.
My from the hip gander is that the heads are going to be a restrictive
choice for the 540..
Here is a Flow Data chart for RHS 360cc port Big Block heads.
Unfortunately GM doesn't provide these charts like most of the
aftermarket head mfg's do.... so you can either have your heads flow checked at a competent machine shop... find the flow in a magazine or
on a website, or just not know.
The HP potential of a head is generally about 2hp for every 1 cfm
of flow.... so a head that flows 300cfm at .500 lift of camshaft has
the theoretic potential of 600hp...
You also want to match your port CC's to the engine size you are
using.... GM, again, often doesn't list these figures.
For a 540 you are going to want heads that flow between 270cfm to 420 cfm between .500 to .700 lift... port CC's between 310cc to 390 cc's
The more CFM's a head flows with smaller port CC's... the more efficient and well designed the head... and generally the better throttle
response you will get without sacrificing top end power.
Biggest CFM's with the smallest CC's... that's what you want..
If you are picking between 2 heads that seem fairly equal in these
regards.... look at the low lift figures.. the cfm's flowing at .300 and
.400... the head with better low lift numbers is usually considered the
better head.
600hp to 700hp should be a fairly easy mark to make if you choose
your parts to match... that's a powerful street engine...
Good Luck.
different lifts... if you don't know this then cam recomendations are going to be a guess..and the guess could be wrong.
My from the hip gander is that the heads are going to be a restrictive
choice for the 540..
Here is a Flow Data chart for RHS 360cc port Big Block heads.
Unfortunately GM doesn't provide these charts like most of the
aftermarket head mfg's do.... so you can either have your heads flow checked at a competent machine shop... find the flow in a magazine or
on a website, or just not know.
The HP potential of a head is generally about 2hp for every 1 cfm
of flow.... so a head that flows 300cfm at .500 lift of camshaft has
the theoretic potential of 600hp...
You also want to match your port CC's to the engine size you are
using.... GM, again, often doesn't list these figures.
For a 540 you are going to want heads that flow between 270cfm to 420 cfm between .500 to .700 lift... port CC's between 310cc to 390 cc's
The more CFM's a head flows with smaller port CC's... the more efficient and well designed the head... and generally the better throttle
response you will get without sacrificing top end power.
Biggest CFM's with the smallest CC's... that's what you want..
If you are picking between 2 heads that seem fairly equal in these
regards.... look at the low lift figures.. the cfm's flowing at .300 and
.400... the head with better low lift numbers is usually considered the
better head.
600hp to 700hp should be a fairly easy mark to make if you choose
your parts to match... that's a powerful street engine...
Good Luck.
Last edited by msb184; 03-18-2007 at 06:44 PM.
03-19-2007, 12:57 AM
#22
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What I've found is that it gets progressively tougher to feed these big dudes as RPM climbs. Now if you will never to over 6000 rpm..that is one thing...but what you will learn is that with a 540" motor...the rpm climbs from 2500-6000 rpm so quickly due to tire spin and just flat power...that you end up with what feels like a very short powerband. The first version of my 540 was incredible at 3500-4000 rpm but it was done by 6200-6500. I re-did combo to move powerband higher and the car is a lOT more fun to drive. Still makes the same peak TQ..just does it a little higher..and then hangs on much better. It is still climbing at 7000 rpm...so when you want to play hard..it's ready. If you want to short shift it at 6000-6500..no big deal...it's still over 700-750 hp there too.
My heads are arguably too large...at 377cc after porting...and smaller ones will pick up the low end...but again the trick is...what are you going to do with it? There are 540's making 730+ ft lbs. If you stuff your foot into one of these things at 3000 rpm you better have your hand on the shifter ready to pull it quickly! I haven't had any complaints about low end TQ on mine at all! And that includes an intake that is awful big and ported too! Big motors need to breathe!
If you get a real nice set of CNC 335 AFR's, or similar...you're fine. They'll cover 800 hp. Even the 315's will support 700-750 HP. other than those..I'd really look into the 350cc range at least.
The ZZ572's aren't burning down the dragstrips with great performance out there. MPH is pretty low on them against similar deals. Decent....but they seem to be way head limited.
JIM
My heads are arguably too large...at 377cc after porting...and smaller ones will pick up the low end...but again the trick is...what are you going to do with it? There are 540's making 730+ ft lbs. If you stuff your foot into one of these things at 3000 rpm you better have your hand on the shifter ready to pull it quickly! I haven't had any complaints about low end TQ on mine at all! And that includes an intake that is awful big and ported too! Big motors need to breathe!
If you get a real nice set of CNC 335 AFR's, or similar...you're fine. They'll cover 800 hp. Even the 315's will support 700-750 HP. other than those..I'd really look into the 350cc range at least.
The ZZ572's aren't burning down the dragstrips with great performance out there. MPH is pretty low on them against similar deals. Decent....but they seem to be way head limited.
JIM
03-23-2007, 09:13 PM
#23
Drifting
Best thread I've read in a long time.
Great info:
I am also planning a 540 short block to swap out for my current427. (60' over)
Can you use a 119 cc Dart 320 on a 10.75 cr 540?
I have 2.30 1.90 valves and the heads are fullly ported.
Did not receive a chart like the one listed above
Is it possible to make 800-900 h.p. on pump gas?
Did not mean to high jack thread.
Thanks,
Joe
Great info:
I am also planning a 540 short block to swap out for my current427. (60' over)
Can you use a 119 cc Dart 320 on a 10.75 cr 540?
I have 2.30 1.90 valves and the heads are fullly ported.
Did not receive a chart like the one listed above
Is it possible to make 800-900 h.p. on pump gas?
Did not mean to high jack thread.
Thanks,
Joe
03-23-2007, 11:41 PM
#24
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Mine made 825HP last time around on the dyno on 93 octane. I've since changed cam and oil pan to a better design. Hopefully they helped..no new dyno tests....but the timeslips are a LOT better!
ML67 made 702 RWHP with his 548". That's all over low 800's also.
632C2 made around 835-840 or so I think...but that was with a vacuum pump system.
But to answer your question...yes 800+ is not too tough. 900 is a lot harder to do. You need SERIOUS airflow and be willing to spin some RPM. Moving to some Big Chief or Big Dukes would help a lot...generally 80-100 hp increase over good regular heads. But of course they take a little fab work in a real car.
Moving out to a tall deck 598" or even a 632 would help...or at least do the 565 with some good heads to get that high. Usually takes some compression and a serious cam. We are about to dyno a pump gas 638" with ported Brodix-3's. The first time around it made just under 900HP. This time it's got professionally ported heads. Still using a very streetable cam..only .700 lift..which is awful small for a motor this big...but it should be easy on parts. This thing is designed to make cross country trips. Should make well in excess of 900 this time around.
It will all depend on how well those 320's were ported. As I said..it takes a great head to make power like this.
JIM
ML67 made 702 RWHP with his 548". That's all over low 800's also.
632C2 made around 835-840 or so I think...but that was with a vacuum pump system.
But to answer your question...yes 800+ is not too tough. 900 is a lot harder to do. You need SERIOUS airflow and be willing to spin some RPM. Moving to some Big Chief or Big Dukes would help a lot...generally 80-100 hp increase over good regular heads. But of course they take a little fab work in a real car.
Moving out to a tall deck 598" or even a 632 would help...or at least do the 565 with some good heads to get that high. Usually takes some compression and a serious cam. We are about to dyno a pump gas 638" with ported Brodix-3's. The first time around it made just under 900HP. This time it's got professionally ported heads. Still using a very streetable cam..only .700 lift..which is awful small for a motor this big...but it should be easy on parts. This thing is designed to make cross country trips. Should make well in excess of 900 this time around.
It will all depend on how well those 320's were ported. As I said..it takes a great head to make power like this.
JIM
03-24-2007, 12:09 AM
#25
Race Director
Those are way too big IMHO for a street motor. I am afraid the motor will be a slug on the street. Look at a BRODIX-2 PLUS or -2. Way more air speed & throttle response will be better. Port sizes in the 315 cc runners work good. Most heads that flow huge #'s are dead on the street. On a 510-540 BBC you will be happy with 350 CFM. More is not really better IMHO.
Don Vargo
Redford Mi
1969 Dodge Charger
Average 3 runs 9.70 @ 139.90
640 ci, BB Chevrolet .......
3 rd Place over all.
And this was after driving it on a special road course of around 50 miles and then drag racing it with a 4000 lb+ car. Nothing is too big for the streets.
03-24-2007, 09:36 PM
#26
Drifting
Mine made 825HP last time around on the dyno on 93 octane. I've since changed cam and oil pan to a better design. Hopefully they helped..no new dyno tests....but the timeslips are a LOT better!
ML67 made 702 RWHP with his 548". That's all over low 800's also.
632C2 made around 835-840 or so I think...but that was with a vacuum pump system.
But to answer your question...yes 800+ is not too tough. 900 is a lot harder to do. You need SERIOUS airflow and be willing to spin some RPM. Moving to some Big Chief or Big Dukes would help a lot...generally 80-100 hp increase over good regular heads. But of course they take a little fab work in a real car.
Moving out to a tall deck 598" or even a 632 would help...or at least do the 565 with some good heads to get that high. Usually takes some compression and a serious cam. We are about to dyno a pump gas 638" with ported Brodix-3's. The first time around it made just under 900HP. This time it's got professionally ported heads. Still using a very streetable cam..only .700 lift..which is awful small for a motor this big...but it should be easy on parts. This thing is designed to make cross country trips. Should make well in excess of 900 this time around.
It will all depend on how well those 320's were ported. As I said..it takes a great head to make power like this.
JIM
ML67 made 702 RWHP with his 548". That's all over low 800's also.
632C2 made around 835-840 or so I think...but that was with a vacuum pump system.
But to answer your question...yes 800+ is not too tough. 900 is a lot harder to do. You need SERIOUS airflow and be willing to spin some RPM. Moving to some Big Chief or Big Dukes would help a lot...generally 80-100 hp increase over good regular heads. But of course they take a little fab work in a real car.
Moving out to a tall deck 598" or even a 632 would help...or at least do the 565 with some good heads to get that high. Usually takes some compression and a serious cam. We are about to dyno a pump gas 638" with ported Brodix-3's. The first time around it made just under 900HP. This time it's got professionally ported heads. Still using a very streetable cam..only .700 lift..which is awful small for a motor this big...but it should be easy on parts. This thing is designed to make cross country trips. Should make well in excess of 900 this time around.
It will all depend on how well those 320's were ported. As I said..it takes a great head to make power like this.
JIM
The goal is to take all the parts I have now and just change out the short block.
Here's the list:
Powermaster H/T Starter
Moroso Oil Pan (probably won't work with the 540)
Crane Timing Chain, Cam Button, Cover ect.
Dart 320's ported By Tom Allen owner of Champion Cylinder Heads. Currently have 219 190 valves, plan to change to 230 intakes and then have them flowed again.
Dart Super Mod Intake Flowed by Dart.
Hooker Super Comps with 3" Exhaust and Flowmasters (50 series)
Holley 8896 1050
CSI Waterpump
Msd Distributor w/6A BOX
ATI Balancer.
I'm trying to locate the most competive price for a 540 shortblock.
As, far as the cam goes, Cammotion is who I've used in the past with good success. I think in this case I will try one of the cams listed in this thread. It's saves alot of stress knowing you guys have already tried various combinations and know what works.
Thanks for sharing. I don't drive my car much on the street anymore. I guess it's because when we go get fuel it sucks to spend 9.49 a gallon for C112.
So with the small heads and the small carb (1050) how much power can I make with your cam recommendation and my parts
Thanks,
Joe
03-25-2007, 02:24 AM
#27
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Joe....you are going to be in for some fun with the big motor!!
I'm assuming you want to stay short deck. The 565's are making about 20hp or so at least more than the 540's. They breathe nice!!
Otherwise, the 598's are just insane. Pef427 just got his 598" running. It is a pump gas hyd roller motor with Dart 355CNC heads. It made 819 HP and I think like 770-780 ft lbs of TQ? All before 6200 rpm or so!
Depending on oil pan you have. I ran a Moroso (20403?) that cleared fine. It was on my 427 for years....but I had oiling problems with it on the 540. I think it is a little close in front area of crank and oil can't get away from crank on a 540. I now have a Milodon Stepped Drag Race pan and it solved all issues immediately.
The 320's will just depend on what was done to them and what they flow. Other folks I've talked to said they ran OK on 540's, but ran out of breath too early. They would be willing to give up a little TQ for RPM.
Interestingly when I've compared my low end TQ numbers against similarly cammed 540's I find I'm at least in the game with them and flat outpull many as RPM climbs. This despite the huge heads and intake. Right now the best overall compromise seems to be the AFR 335's or the Brodix -3CNC heads for out of the box. They are both incredible.
I would have heads flowed real quick before I spent more $$ on them. See what they do. You can always sell a good set of heads like that to a 454/427 guy and put money towards better stuff. If you shop around you can find good deals on heads for your motor too. Hate to see you leave too much power on the table. I woudl expect the avg 320 Dart head (unported) with a .700 cam and 260's duration to end up right around 680-700 hp on pump gas. Maybe a little more...but I think RPm will be limited somewhat.
The Dart intake is a proven performer on everything..but again....I think a Super Victor etc will out do it on a 540+ motor. Or at least do some porting on it.
Nick is using a Cam Motion in his 638". I actually toured their shop one night.(long story). 632C2 just replaced his Cam Motion in his 632 with a slightly smaller Comp roller. When all was done, he dropped a few HP on the top end, but gained like 40-50 RWHP in the 4000-6000 rpm range! That's incredible!!
My cam is an Engle. I've had great luck with them..but I keep thinking all this new whiz bang stuff might be better. But again..mine MPH's pretty good..hate to mess with success. Plus it doesn't hurt stuff!
JIM
I'm assuming you want to stay short deck. The 565's are making about 20hp or so at least more than the 540's. They breathe nice!!
Otherwise, the 598's are just insane. Pef427 just got his 598" running. It is a pump gas hyd roller motor with Dart 355CNC heads. It made 819 HP and I think like 770-780 ft lbs of TQ? All before 6200 rpm or so!
Depending on oil pan you have. I ran a Moroso (20403?) that cleared fine. It was on my 427 for years....but I had oiling problems with it on the 540. I think it is a little close in front area of crank and oil can't get away from crank on a 540. I now have a Milodon Stepped Drag Race pan and it solved all issues immediately.
The 320's will just depend on what was done to them and what they flow. Other folks I've talked to said they ran OK on 540's, but ran out of breath too early. They would be willing to give up a little TQ for RPM.
Interestingly when I've compared my low end TQ numbers against similarly cammed 540's I find I'm at least in the game with them and flat outpull many as RPM climbs. This despite the huge heads and intake. Right now the best overall compromise seems to be the AFR 335's or the Brodix -3CNC heads for out of the box. They are both incredible.
I would have heads flowed real quick before I spent more $$ on them. See what they do. You can always sell a good set of heads like that to a 454/427 guy and put money towards better stuff. If you shop around you can find good deals on heads for your motor too. Hate to see you leave too much power on the table. I woudl expect the avg 320 Dart head (unported) with a .700 cam and 260's duration to end up right around 680-700 hp on pump gas. Maybe a little more...but I think RPm will be limited somewhat.
The Dart intake is a proven performer on everything..but again....I think a Super Victor etc will out do it on a 540+ motor. Or at least do some porting on it.
Nick is using a Cam Motion in his 638". I actually toured their shop one night.(long story). 632C2 just replaced his Cam Motion in his 632 with a slightly smaller Comp roller. When all was done, he dropped a few HP on the top end, but gained like 40-50 RWHP in the 4000-6000 rpm range! That's incredible!!
My cam is an Engle. I've had great luck with them..but I keep thinking all this new whiz bang stuff might be better. But again..mine MPH's pretty good..hate to mess with success. Plus it doesn't hurt stuff!
JIM
03-25-2007, 08:55 PM
#28
Drifting
Joe....you are going to be in for some fun with the big motor!!
I'm assuming you want to stay short deck. The 565's are making about 20hp or so at least more than the 540's. They breathe nice!!
Otherwise, the 598's are just insane. Pef427 just got his 598" running. It is a pump gas hyd roller motor with Dart 355CNC heads. It made 819 HP and I think like 770-780 ft lbs of TQ? All before 6200 rpm or so!
Depending on oil pan you have. I ran a Moroso (20403?) that cleared fine. It was on my 427 for years....but I had oiling problems with it on the 540. I think it is a little close in front area of crank and oil can't get away from crank on a 540. I now have a Milodon Stepped Drag Race pan and it solved all issues immediately.
The 320's will just depend on what was done to them and what they flow. Other folks I've talked to said they ran OK on 540's, but ran out of breath too early. They would be willing to give up a little TQ for RPM.
Interestingly when I've compared my low end TQ numbers against similarly cammed 540's I find I'm at least in the game with them and flat outpull many as RPM climbs. This despite the huge heads and intake. Right now the best overall compromise seems to be the AFR 335's or the Brodix -3CNC heads for out of the box. They are both incredible.
I would have heads flowed real quick before I spent more $$ on them. See what they do. You can always sell a good set of heads like that to a 454/427 guy and put money towards better stuff. If you shop around you can find good deals on heads for your motor too. Hate to see you leave too much power on the table. I woudl expect the avg 320 Dart head (unported) with a .700 cam and 260's duration to end up right around 680-700 hp on pump gas. Maybe a little more...but I think RPm will be limited somewhat.
The Dart intake is a proven performer on everything..but again....I think a Super Victor etc will out do it on a 540+ motor. Or at least do some porting on it.
Nick is using a Cam Motion in his 638". I actually toured their shop one night.(long story). 632C2 just replaced his Cam Motion in his 632 with a slightly smaller Comp roller. When all was done, he dropped a few HP on the top end, but gained like 40-50 RWHP in the 4000-6000 rpm range! That's incredible!!
My cam is an Engle. I've had great luck with them..but I keep thinking all this new whiz bang stuff might be better. But again..mine MPH's pretty good..hate to mess with success. Plus it doesn't hurt stuff!
JIM
I'm assuming you want to stay short deck. The 565's are making about 20hp or so at least more than the 540's. They breathe nice!!
Otherwise, the 598's are just insane. Pef427 just got his 598" running. It is a pump gas hyd roller motor with Dart 355CNC heads. It made 819 HP and I think like 770-780 ft lbs of TQ? All before 6200 rpm or so!
Depending on oil pan you have. I ran a Moroso (20403?) that cleared fine. It was on my 427 for years....but I had oiling problems with it on the 540. I think it is a little close in front area of crank and oil can't get away from crank on a 540. I now have a Milodon Stepped Drag Race pan and it solved all issues immediately.
The 320's will just depend on what was done to them and what they flow. Other folks I've talked to said they ran OK on 540's, but ran out of breath too early. They would be willing to give up a little TQ for RPM.
Interestingly when I've compared my low end TQ numbers against similarly cammed 540's I find I'm at least in the game with them and flat outpull many as RPM climbs. This despite the huge heads and intake. Right now the best overall compromise seems to be the AFR 335's or the Brodix -3CNC heads for out of the box. They are both incredible.
I would have heads flowed real quick before I spent more $$ on them. See what they do. You can always sell a good set of heads like that to a 454/427 guy and put money towards better stuff. If you shop around you can find good deals on heads for your motor too. Hate to see you leave too much power on the table. I woudl expect the avg 320 Dart head (unported) with a .700 cam and 260's duration to end up right around 680-700 hp on pump gas. Maybe a little more...but I think RPm will be limited somewhat.
The Dart intake is a proven performer on everything..but again....I think a Super Victor etc will out do it on a 540+ motor. Or at least do some porting on it.
Nick is using a Cam Motion in his 638". I actually toured their shop one night.(long story). 632C2 just replaced his Cam Motion in his 632 with a slightly smaller Comp roller. When all was done, he dropped a few HP on the top end, but gained like 40-50 RWHP in the 4000-6000 rpm range! That's incredible!!
My cam is an Engle. I've had great luck with them..but I keep thinking all this new whiz bang stuff might be better. But again..mine MPH's pretty good..hate to mess with success. Plus it doesn't hurt stuff!
JIM
Joe
04-05-2007, 02:09 AM
#29
Melting Slicks
I would like to also add that he is good to work with and will not steer you wrong. Has great prices with very good service as well.
04-09-2007, 09:25 PM
#30
Those are way too big IMHO for a street motor. I am afraid the motor will be a slug on the street. Look at a BRODIX-2 PLUS or -2. Way more air speed & throttle response will be better. Port sizes in the 315 cc runners work good. Most heads that flow huge #'s are dead on the street. On a 510-540 BBC you will be happy with 350 CFM. More is not really better IMHO.
Update on progress. I have been out of the country wroking for the last 3 weeks where people have no interest in cars let alone roads to drive on. I am putting the suspension together and have saved a considerable amount of time on do overs or buying the wrong parts as a result of all the input from this forum. I don't have to guess on a drive shaft, or if my diff flange will work (T400). Found a cam builder who does not sell off shelf cams, engine consultants that I would use if it wasn't for the distance, 427HotRod who tries everything and provides a wealth of knowledge and support. There is a guy on this forum that must have worked at the factory building corvettes, John Z, he told me how far to tap the clutch boss, no one today at GM could answer this question. I have put the engine aside to get the fame and suspension ready. I will provide updates and pictures in another thread. Thanks
04-09-2007, 10:36 PM
#31
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Great to hear an update..we were wondering where you went!
This place has just about everything you'll ever need. Someone here has done just about anything you can imagine and is willing to help you through it.
I still wouldn't rule out Mike for building and shipping you a motor. While it's great to have a local guy you can trust and can go visit...if that's not possible...it's best to have a guy that is very visible and is well known. He wouldn't take the chance on anything happening to his reputation.
Pef427 had his built in Nevada and shipped to TX. He found a guy with great prices. Motor seems to be good...but the guy turned out to be a jerk to deal with after he got the $$$.
You can have yours from Mike in a few days after it's done. That way you work on frame while motor is being built.
You going to make it to Bowling Green in May for the Forum Cruise in? There will be a pretty big contingent of BIG motors there to hear and see run...or go riding in!!
JIM
This place has just about everything you'll ever need. Someone here has done just about anything you can imagine and is willing to help you through it.
I still wouldn't rule out Mike for building and shipping you a motor. While it's great to have a local guy you can trust and can go visit...if that's not possible...it's best to have a guy that is very visible and is well known. He wouldn't take the chance on anything happening to his reputation.
Pef427 had his built in Nevada and shipped to TX. He found a guy with great prices. Motor seems to be good...but the guy turned out to be a jerk to deal with after he got the $$$.
You can have yours from Mike in a few days after it's done. That way you work on frame while motor is being built.
You going to make it to Bowling Green in May for the Forum Cruise in? There will be a pretty big contingent of BIG motors there to hear and see run...or go riding in!!
JIM
04-09-2007, 11:39 PM
#32
Safety Car
How did I miss this thread for so long........
Hotrod is a wealth of info and as usual has covered most of the bases. The one thing I would add is I see no reason to build a 540, make it a 555 at least. Having it bored out will be the cheapest 20-30 hp you will ever get. Nowadays pistons for the larger than 4.500 bore are no more money either. I wish I would have taken my 555 out to 4.6 for a 565. Or if you are brave make it a 4.625 bore for a 572 !!
The AFR 335 CNC and Brodix -3's are nice heads (I have a set of the -3's) no doubt you do not want the GM heads.....they are pretty crappy comparred to the compitition. I would also take a look at the CFE 320-350 cc heads, very nice and were designed by a guy who does a lot of very high end race motors.
http://www.profilerperformance.com/bbc-heads-174.html
Hotrod is a wealth of info and as usual has covered most of the bases. The one thing I would add is I see no reason to build a 540, make it a 555 at least. Having it bored out will be the cheapest 20-30 hp you will ever get. Nowadays pistons for the larger than 4.500 bore are no more money either. I wish I would have taken my 555 out to 4.6 for a 565. Or if you are brave make it a 4.625 bore for a 572 !!
The AFR 335 CNC and Brodix -3's are nice heads (I have a set of the -3's) no doubt you do not want the GM heads.....they are pretty crappy comparred to the compitition. I would also take a look at the CFE 320-350 cc heads, very nice and were designed by a guy who does a lot of very high end race motors.
http://www.profilerperformance.com/bbc-heads-174.html
04-17-2007, 08:53 PM
#33
I want to thank everyone for there help and support, project is moving forward 1 step at a time and then 2 steps back. When you go away from stock there is always re work, re do, buy different. As I have stated before this forum and the people on the forum have saved me money , time, and a whole lot of aggravation.
427Hotrod are you going to Bowling Green and what are the dates for this event. I want to try and make this.
Thanks; Bob
427Hotrod are you going to Bowling Green and what are the dates for this event. I want to try and make this.
Thanks; Bob
04-18-2007, 10:11 PM
#34
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Oh yeah...we have a big group coming up for the Cruise In. Check the Events section here on the Forum in the National section.
We're leaving TX on Tuesday May 22nd, but we're starting the week on Monday with the dyno test party of Nick's 638" motor! We'll make it to Memphis Tuesday evening. Then head down to Bealle St for some *Q* and guitar blues music. Then we'll likely hit Comp Cams again this year on Wednesday morning for a tour. We'll be in BG Wed evening. We have the track all to Vette folks on Thursday. Then we have all the other events ( A COUPLE OF SECRET ONES!)and socializing going on through Sat night. We'll head home on Sunday morning.
You need to come up...there are going to be LOTS of bad boys there. Pef427 with his 598" C-3, TNBusa with his 540" C-3, I'll have my toy there, Travis will have his new roller cam 427 there in his C-3. Plus a few nasty small blocks etc etc. I'm sure there are going to be a few 502's again this year and who knows what else?
Looking forward to seeing you!!
JIM
We're leaving TX on Tuesday May 22nd, but we're starting the week on Monday with the dyno test party of Nick's 638" motor! We'll make it to Memphis Tuesday evening. Then head down to Bealle St for some *Q* and guitar blues music. Then we'll likely hit Comp Cams again this year on Wednesday morning for a tour. We'll be in BG Wed evening. We have the track all to Vette folks on Thursday. Then we have all the other events ( A COUPLE OF SECRET ONES!)and socializing going on through Sat night. We'll head home on Sunday morning.
You need to come up...there are going to be LOTS of bad boys there. Pef427 with his 598" C-3, TNBusa with his 540" C-3, I'll have my toy there, Travis will have his new roller cam 427 there in his C-3. Plus a few nasty small blocks etc etc. I'm sure there are going to be a few 502's again this year and who knows what else?
Looking forward to seeing you!!
JIM
06-02-2007, 04:35 PM
#35
Drifting
540 cu in
This is an intersting thread. I am based in the UK. We don't see too much info like this. I wonder if you guys could give me some advice. I have a '68 L36 427 with M21 & 3.08 rear end. I was going to do a re-build but it seems that I can build-up a new Dart/World 540 for similar money. I have a brand new pair of Brodix Race Rite oval port street heads and a RPM Air gap manifold. Using 1 7/8" Hedman headers & 2 1/2" pipes. I also have 285/40/18" Toyos on rear. Concerned about breaking things. I don't intend to race the car, just 'energetic' street use. Just want a little in excess of what I could have got from a 'full house' 427/454 but in an easier to use package. Any thoughts, suggestions and advice please?
06-03-2007, 01:41 AM
#36
Le Mans Master
This is an intersting thread. I am based in the UK. We don't see too much info like this. I wonder if you guys could give me some advice. I have a '68 L36 427 with M21 & 3.08 rear end. I was going to do a re-build but it seems that I can build-up a new Dart/World 540 for similar money. I have a brand new pair of Brodix Race Rite oval port street heads and a RPM Air gap manifold. Using 1 7/8" Hedman headers & 2 1/2" pipes. I also have 285/40/18" Toyos on rear. Concerned about breaking things. I don't intend to race the car, just 'energetic' street use. Just want a little in excess of what I could have got from a 'full house' 427/454 but in an easier to use package. Any thoughts, suggestions and advice please?
I'm also contemplating a big cube build. 565 seems to be the way to go (for me). The only thing I'm worried about is getting a long enough rod.
My 505 (current motor) has .400 longer rods. The only pistons are 12 (up to 15) to 1 compression ratio.
Less wear and tear on the side of the block (trying to push out the side of the block). At least that is my thinking.
6.135 (stock rod) / 4.00 (stock stroke 454) = 1.53375 rod/stroke ratio
6.385 (.250 longer) / 4.25 (540 crank) = 1.50235
6.535 (.400 longer) / 4.25 = 1.53765
I have also debated about a 3.76 stroke, 4.6 bore motor.
06-03-2007, 06:44 PM
#37
Drifting
540 cu in
The oval port heads will not flow enough air for a 540.
I'm also contemplating a big cube build. 565 seems to be the way to go (for me). The only thing I'm worried about is getting a long enough rod.
My 505 (current motor) has .400 longer rods. The only pistons are 12 (up to 15) to 1 compression ratio.
Less wear and tear on the side of the block (trying to push out the side of the block). At least that is my thinking.
6.135 (stock rod) / 4.00 (stock stroke 454) = 1.53375 rod/stroke ratio
6.385 (.250 longer) / 4.25 (540 crank) = 1.50235
6.535 (.400 longer) / 4.25 = 1.53765
I have also debated about a 3.76 stroke, 4.6 bore motor.
Yes it seems in hindsight that my Brodix oval port heads may not be large enough to get best benefit for 540 cubes, could have them flowed and ported though!
The idea of 3.76 stroke and 4.6 bore should theoretically make a free reving set-up although again I guess big port heads would be required to get the best out of these capabilities.
I'm also contemplating a big cube build. 565 seems to be the way to go (for me). The only thing I'm worried about is getting a long enough rod.
My 505 (current motor) has .400 longer rods. The only pistons are 12 (up to 15) to 1 compression ratio.
Less wear and tear on the side of the block (trying to push out the side of the block). At least that is my thinking.
6.135 (stock rod) / 4.00 (stock stroke 454) = 1.53375 rod/stroke ratio
6.385 (.250 longer) / 4.25 (540 crank) = 1.50235
6.535 (.400 longer) / 4.25 = 1.53765
I have also debated about a 3.76 stroke, 4.6 bore motor.
Yes it seems in hindsight that my Brodix oval port heads may not be large enough to get best benefit for 540 cubes, could have them flowed and ported though!
The idea of 3.76 stroke and 4.6 bore should theoretically make a free reving set-up although again I guess big port heads would be required to get the best out of these capabilities.
06-05-2007, 11:05 PM
#38
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The Race Rites are great heads, but I have to agree.....I think you'd be a lot better off with some larger heads on a 540+ engine. There has to be a UK fellow we can seel them to right? Then you can buy bigger stuff.
The intake, heads and exhaust you have are all geared to less than 500 cubes.
The 4.600x3.76 combo is a screamer...but it really likes RPM. Lots of fun if you rev it. Easy 7500-8000 rpm combo.
I wouldn't worry too much about the rod length. My 540 uses +.250 rods and has been running fine for years. Same pistons...no wear issues. A 540 like this has almost the same rod ratio as a 454. 1.50 Vs 1.53. Shorter rods help let the big heads breathe too.
JIM
The intake, heads and exhaust you have are all geared to less than 500 cubes.
The 4.600x3.76 combo is a screamer...but it really likes RPM. Lots of fun if you rev it. Easy 7500-8000 rpm combo.
I wouldn't worry too much about the rod length. My 540 uses +.250 rods and has been running fine for years. Same pistons...no wear issues. A 540 like this has almost the same rod ratio as a 454. 1.50 Vs 1.53. Shorter rods help let the big heads breathe too.
JIM
06-06-2007, 04:45 AM
#39
Drifting
540 cu in
My original plan was to use the Race Rite heads on my original 427 block after extensive re-build & blueprint. I have got Edelbrock RPM air gap ready to go on (to replace Torker 2). Things change however and now in the UK we can buy USA produced equipment far cheaper it would make more sense to mothball the 427 and build-up another shortblock. When a 540, 500 or 427 costs are all the same to build-up you go for the largest (or do you!) We have some excellent people over here that could port the Race Rite heads to match the flow capabilities of a 540 sized engine, however the thought of a high winding 3.67" stroke 4.6" bore engine is enticing. I guess though the flow rates of the heads are still going to be as much of a problem with this combination (being higher reving) as with a lowever reving big cube engine.
06-06-2007, 05:13 PM
#40
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You're right...it's all relative. There's a guy named Larry Robb with a beautiful balck C-2. He ran the Hot Rod Pump Gas Drags once. He now runs low 9's@147+ mph with a 477" type deal. He uses seriously ported Dart 310 heads, huge roller cam etc. Makes peak HP at 8100 or so and shifts at 8600 rpm.
If you look back through some old info on the NMCA series, they were using similar combos with mega crazy ported GM/Edelbrock oval ports. They were turning 9000+ rpm with them and running high 9's on drag radials @ 3200-3400 lbs. Trust me. the heads didn't even resemble what they started out as.
I'd still look to build a big cube motor...they sure are fun. Just use good enough heads etc to get it to rev.
JIM
If you look back through some old info on the NMCA series, they were using similar combos with mega crazy ported GM/Edelbrock oval ports. They were turning 9000+ rpm with them and running high 9's on drag radials @ 3200-3400 lbs. Trust me. the heads didn't even resemble what they started out as.
I'd still look to build a big cube motor...they sure are fun. Just use good enough heads etc to get it to rev.
JIM