WashingtonRacer

Well I picked up some fuel rail stock today, It's a really nice smooth design instead of the little fins, Anyways I also picked up the bosses that will be welded in, I will be attempting this on a torquer "single plane manifold". Has anyone done this already? any comments that you think I should be aware of before I start this?

Russ Bellinis

Why make your own instead of buying one? I don't see how you would save any money since the electronics and the rest of the hardware is the most expensive part. How critical is the alignment of the nozzles? You only get one shot at getting it right.

LD85

You can do a search on the web for sheet metal intakes and see a lot of custom intakes.

I may very well be taking the Holley Stealth and making a csutom plenum to fit under the C4 hood.

Good Luck!

six-T-six

I'm doing the same thing right now! But I decided to try to build a ram type manifold with a plenum on top. You will probably spend as much as buying a vendor package, once you add up all the connectors/sensors/fuel lines/pump/tank mods/injectors/throttle body,tools,shop supplies etc. But if you're like me, it's much more interesting trying to make it yourself.

If you drill out the bosses, you need to make a jig out of wood to keep the bungs aligned straight. I'm using a milling machine so I can keep everything straight.

I thought about using a single plane and using an old carb body modified and adapted to be a throttle body. (I assume you are going to use a speed density system). Otherwise, you can get an aftermarket throttle body but they are a little pricey.

I see you got fuel rail already, I found a place that sells the rail by the foot for $8/ft if you're still interested. You'll need some NPT thread taps for the fuel fittings. It's important to make sure the holes in the rail for the injectors are aligned perfectly with the holes in the manifold otherwise you will definitely get leaks and you will need to fabricate a bracket to hold the rail in place.

What controller are you planning on using? A stock computer or aftermarket. I'm using a Megasquirt controller.

Good Luck!

JUAN J SANCHEZ

I AM CONVERTING A VICTOR JR INTAKE INTO EFI FOR MY 383 IN MY 89 C4. AFTER LOTS OF RESEARCH I FOUND MANY DIFFERENT OPTIONS. EVERY OPTION LED TO APPROXIMATELY $1000-1200.00 DOLLARS FOR A COMPLETE INTAKE LESS COMPUTER AND HARNESS. I CHOOSE TO MAKE IT MYSELF. I BROUGHT A 1000CFM THROTTLE BODY FROM FORCE FUEL INJECTION FOR ABOUT $550.00 DOLLARS IT CAME WITH AN IAC AND TPS, PLUS $35.00 FOR AN ADAPTER HARNESS FOR THE NEW STYLE SENSORS (TPS AND IAC). I ALSO GOT FUEL RAILS AND INJECTOR BUNGS FOR AN ADDITIONAL $100.00 DOLLARS.THE MANIFOLD IS ABOUT $200.00 DOLLARS DEPENDING ON WHAT INTAKE YOU CHOOSE. YOU HAVE ABOUT 9.5"OF CLEARANCE FROM THE DECK/LIFTER VALLEY AREA (WHERE THE FRONT AND REAR AREA OF THE MANIFOLD TOUCH THE BLOCK )TO THE HOOD ON A C4. MY INTAKE AND THROTTLE BODY COMBINED IS ONLY ABOUT 6.5". IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW MANY THINGS YOU CAN DO YOURSELF TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH CHEAPER IT WOULD BE VERSUS BUYING ONE COMPLETELY DONE. ACCEL SELLS A GOOD INTAKE ALREADY COMPLETE FOR ABOUT $600.00 LESS THROTTLE BODY AND INJECTORS. HOLLEY SELLS A COUPLE OF INTAKES ALREADY DRILLED WITH BOSSES AND RAIL MOUNTS FAIRLY CHEAP. BUT OVERALL ,BUY THE TIME YOU BUY INJECTORS, RAILS ,THROTTLE BODY, SENSORS, AND INTAKE MANIFOLD, YOU WOULD HAVE INVESTED ABOUT $800.00-1000.00. I WELDED AND DRILLED THE BOSSES AND RAIL MOUNTS MYSELF AND MY FRIEND PORTED AND REMOVED THE ROUGH AREAS FOR ME SO I SAVED ON THAT. ON THE INJECTOR LOCATION I SPOKE TO THE GUYS AT FORCE FUEL INJECTION ABOUT THAT AND THEY TOLD ME THAT STRAIGHT DOWN WAS FINE MOSTLY BECAUSE IT MAKES MOUNTING THE RAIL ALOT EASIER AND HE TOLD ME THAT THERE IS SO MUCH VACUUM INSIDE THE INTAKE RUSHING PAST THE INJECTOR THAT PLACING THE INJECTOR AT AN ANGLE TO HIT THE BACK OF THE VALVE REALLY WOULD NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE. ANY WAY HOPE THIS HELPS YOU OUT I ALSO HAVE PART NUMBERS TO MOST OF THESE PARTS SO IF YOU NEED THEM JUST LET ME KNOW NOTIME383@HOTMAIL.COM. I'LL TRY TO POST PICTURES OF THE INTAKE.

SmokedTires

This is a great post as I too am looking into putting together my own injection unit. I was really set on the Holley Stealthram until I found that the intake can't be port matched to a 1206 gasket to match in heads.

I'd be interested in knowing where yoiu got the fuel rails & also what computers people are using to control the engine :yesnod: .

JUAN J SANCHEZ

You can get all the accessories from Force Fuel Injection in Miami I don't have the number in front of me but you can get back to me if you don't find their web-site. Personnally I've always used Accel DFI to control these engines, but there are plenty of good computers out there. Accel has a new gen 7.0 that real good, Motec is good but very expensive, F.A.S.T. engine magement is good also . It depends on what your doing and of course your budget. You can also use a GM factory computer and run a chip ?

Dryseals

I know you have bought your own fuel rails already, but in case you decide another route, I'm using the fuels rails off a TPI setup. Very easy to make work and all the machine work is done. You can find them on ebay for about $25. As for all the others that ask why build your own, because they charge you and arm and a leg for very little work. You can take a single plane and make your ouwn a lot cheaper. Most of the aftermarket ECMs use GM or Ford sensors, mainly GM so everything is the same. I have a torker thats ready to go but I've been looking for an older o new tunnel ram so I can lop off the top and add a plenum.
Just my two cents.

JUAN J SANCHEZ

TPI rails should work fine but I'm using bigger fuel lines so it's probably easier to tap an aftermarket rail than the TPI rails.

six-T-six

The fuel rail I purchased is $8/ft and can be purchased from:
Full Throttle Performance, 7873 W. Thomas St, Rome, NY 13440. You have to call them since you can't order from their web-site. It is D-Shaped rail with a 1/2 bore. A groove is in the centerline along the flat bottom to help you when drillijng for the injectors.

The controller I am using is called the Megasquirt, you build it yourself. It's speed-density and does batch injection and the source code is completely open so you can do just about anything you want with the software.

WashingtonRacer

HMM, I first thought it would be easier to just buy a complete set. But when looking at the cost for Bosses, 35 bucks, 3 feet of rail, 36 bucks, I got some free 24lb injectors to help mock setup everything. I have completed one side already just needs to be welded up, I was thinking of epoxying them but I am worried that with too much pressure I might just blow them right out of the manifold. It all looks great so far, I am just worried about one mistake I made. I centered each boss on the runner about 1/4 from the outlet. Now on the torquer manfolds, they have very straight runners all the way to the end of the manifold where it then is basically a sharp turn to meet the intake valve runner on the head, where it continues to turn even more, Basically when I look into the manifold, there is not a direct open spray that would reach the valve, it would hit the intake wall before that. I am going to take it to a local shop to have them look over it. I may have messed up, or maybe not.

I plan on using the Accel DFI Gen VII controller, which is pricey but hell even if I bought a whole kit, I would still want that controller. I was looking at the Force throttle bodies too, they are still cheaper than any carb out there so it's worth the 500 bucks to me.

Mainly I am just going to wait till tomarrow and see what the shop tells me about the current job. If they say it's a go, then I am going to finish the whole thing. If not, Well I don't know. I still like the idea of doing it my self but we'll see.

Light84vette

I was thinking Of doing my own Myself to, but I'm going to go with TB's. SO good luck with your project, I think and I'm pretty sure your going the right way. Anyway the injectors that are straight vertical when the manifold is bolted to the engine still flow good,---But if you want it too be more efiecent and better you should have put them in at an angle so the injector srays straight with the intake runners. If you look at Jegs.com for products and then to fuel you'll see fuel injection Go there and see the Holly Stealth Ram MPI System the injectors are straight down. If you see the Edelbrock MPI systems like the PRO-FLOW EFI one the injectors are about inline with the intake runners, and it looks like it has more power potential than the others.

So just make sure the injectors are inline with the intake runners and you'll be fine :thumbs:

Flareside

WashingtonRacer, I talked to quite a few shops about injector angles, and they all said that it wasn't all that important for a street engine. According to most of them, pointing the injector at the valve is good for maybe 5 or 10 hp on a 400 hp engine. I really wanted to stay with my stock hood, so I had them angled out quite a bit. You can see the intake here: Custom BB EFI


[Modified by Flareside, 5:34 PM 1/2/2003]

81vette

From what I understand edelbrock was showing off a victor jr. setup for efi at one of the car shows recently. Not sure if they're available yet, but you might want to give them a call.

mark


[Modified by 81vette, 5:21 PM 1/2/2003]

WashingtonRacer

Well the people at the injection shop said my current setup will work, but how well will only be able to be found when I run it. "makes sense". Anyways it's not a very big deal to me I guess, they said I have the best point possible for a torquer manifold. "it's just the manifold is not the best design for this kind of thing. So I am going to finish the whole setup, If it proves to be a problem then I will just redo the manifold/bosses when the time comes. Afterall, with the amount of money I am throwing into the rest of the engine another 400 or so bucks is nothing.

As for actually converting over to FI. It doesn't seem that difficult at all. Not much different than installing a fogger system or something.

SloRvette

When you start talking big horsepower, most guys are moving the injectors closer to the plenum, away from the intake valve. Aiming the injector at the intake is mostly for emissions reasons.

Light84vette

Do they just move the injector up stream up the intake runner to get a better mist f fuel?

SloRvette

I'm not 100% sure on the reasoning. I've just seen multiple people picking up HP on the dyno by moving the injector. My guess would be more time for the fuel and air to mix before reaching the cylinder.

Packaging seems to be the biggest issue in doing an EFI conversion. You need to allow room for your fuel line fittings, fuel pressure regulator, throttle linkage, water neck, air cleaner, etc. etc.

WashingtonRacer

You do ahve a good point, I am kinda shocked at how high my runners are going to be at this point. I may need to run a 1/2 spacer to get the linkage to clear. Or I go with one of the force throttle body's which make the linkage much closer to the body. On another note, I did grind out the extra metal in the runner and smooth everything out, it looks much more promising to me now, to be honest It looks like I may be creating a directional flow that will create a tumbling pattern with the fuel and air. Only dyno tests will prove how good it really is, I guess if it isn't a good setup I will experience a point where no matter how much in adjustments I make, the Results will not get any better.

WashingtonRacer

I am wondering if anyone of you might be able to help me find some more info on a certain type of injector. I found a "little bit " of information on Bosch and their compact type injectors which look to be almost half the height of the standard injectors, the problem is I cannot find any place on the net that has prices for them or flow rates the most intresting part is they can have a 30 degree angled spray pattern so I can set it up to spray around the slight corner I have to acheve that "unrestricted flow to the valve. Now from what I found most of the aftermarket companies use Bosch's pintle tip design saying it's the best design out there, but I cannot find any Bosch injectors for sale new anywhere.

I found that I would need around a 68lb injector, so I was thinking of going 72lb to help keep the possibility of flow rate differences from hampering peak performance. "better to have too much than to little right". Well if anyone knows of a company that has a wide aray of injector sales please please pass it along to me. And if you guys do go lookin, check out Boschs compact design injector, it's pretty cool.