443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine
07-18-2003, 04:15 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine
I'm talking with the guys at Bill Mitchell about the 454 ci small block crate....when he says they have a 443 ci ready to go. Made me a better price offer than the 454 ci crate.....Any one know anything about the 443 ci? Would this be a better crate engine to purchase since the bore is not as big as the 454 ci?......I've heard of 434 ci. This is the first time I've ever heard of the 443 ci small block crate. :flag :seeya Cappy
07-18-2003, 10:08 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (8T1-7T9 BIONIC VETTE)
The thing I don't like about their 454's is that you can't ever overbore it if you need to rebuild or freshen it up. It's basically a one time use block, and considering that it's a standard deck block the thrust loads are going to wear the bore over time and it will no longer be round. The Bill Mitchell engine's are a great buy for the money, but I'd go with the 427 if I were you, just becuase the bore isn't maxed out right from the start. I don't know what bore they are using for the 443.
07-18-2003, 10:39 AM
#3
Team Owner
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (Monty)
Cappy & Monty. They are using a 4.125 standard bore and an 4.125 stroker crank in the 441 ci motors. If Bill Mitchell said 443 ci it must be due to some minimal overbore for piston fit or quicker breakin.
07-18-2003, 01:13 PM
#4
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (Monty)
The thing I don't like about their 454's is that you can't ever overbore it if you need to rebuild or freshen it up. It's basically a one time use block, and considering that it's a standard deck block the thrust loads are going to wear the bore over time and it will no longer be round. The Bill Mitchell engine's are a great buy for the money, but I'd go with the 427 if I were you, just becuase the bore isn't maxed out right from the start. I don't know what bore they are using for the 443.
I think I remember him saying the bore is 4.200 and the cylinders are very meaty there's more room to expand.
My 415 ci has a 4.125 bore...and stepping up to a 427 ci would only be a matter of swapping in a new rotating assembly......way cheaper too. About $3000.00 verses $11,000.00......So George......You or Monty need a vacation in Hawaii for about a week? :D :flag :seeya Cappy
[Modified by 8T1-7T9 BIONIC VETTE, 8:14 AM 7/18/2003]
07-18-2003, 01:38 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (8T1-7T9 BIONIC VETTE)
The problem with going with a bore larger than 4.200" is that there isn't a readily available head gasket. The largest off-the-shelf SBC headgasket bore is 4.200". Cometic will do custom bore and thickness gaskets but it ain't like you can go to your local auto parts store or call Jeg's/Summit and order one.
Additonally, it doesn't matter how "beefy" they claim their cylinder walls are, the fact is that an SBC has a 4.400" bore spacing, which with a 4.200" bore only leaves a max of .200" between the siamesed bores. And that's assuming there's perfect bore spacing and no core shift which is unlikely. .200" between the bores is not alot for a high performance, long stroke engine, to start out with if you expect it to provide years of service and have the ability to be overbored and honed in the future.
[Modified by Monty, 12:49 PM 7/18/2003]
Additonally, it doesn't matter how "beefy" they claim their cylinder walls are, the fact is that an SBC has a 4.400" bore spacing, which with a 4.200" bore only leaves a max of .200" between the siamesed bores. And that's assuming there's perfect bore spacing and no core shift which is unlikely. .200" between the bores is not alot for a high performance, long stroke engine, to start out with if you expect it to provide years of service and have the ability to be overbored and honed in the future.
[Modified by Monty, 12:49 PM 7/18/2003]
07-18-2003, 01:44 PM
#6
Team Owner
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (8T1-7T9 BIONIC VETTE)
If you have the engine hoist/motor stand and tools I'll be right over. Doesn't Flatlander racing have a good forged 4 inch crank/rods/pistons/ring/bearings for under $2000.
That and couple hundred dollars worth of gaskets and you'll be on the road again
That and couple hundred dollars worth of gaskets and you'll be on the road again
07-18-2003, 01:55 PM
#7
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (Monty)
The problem with going with a bore larger than 4.200" is that there isn;t a readily available head gasket. The largest off-the-shelf SBC headgasket bore is 4.200". Additonally, it doens't matter how "beefy" they claim their cylinder walls are, the fact is that an SBC has a 4.400" bore spacing, which with a 4.200" bore only leaves a max of .200" between the siamesed bores. And that's assuming there's perfect bore spacing and no core shift which is unlikely. .200" between the bores is not alot for a high performance, long stroke engine, to start out with if you expect it to provide years of service and have the ability to be overbored and honed in the future.
Before I forget....Felpro made a new special gasket just for the 454 ci small block.
My engines last about two years then I'm ready for more power....The Beck Racing Engine is on a engine stand waiting for all forged new rotating assembly...So i'm not too concerned about boring engines down the road.....I blast em down the track until the smile factor is gone then it's on to bigger and better.......Life is short and having fun while you're in it is what it's all about.
George or Monty....Let me know what your plans are so I can get the parts ordered..... :flag :seeya Cappy
07-18-2003, 02:01 PM
#8
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (gkull)
If you have the engine hoist/motor stand and tools I'll be right over. Doesn't Flatlander racing have a good forged 4 inch crank/rods/pistons/ring/bearings for under $2000.
That and couple hundred dollars worth of gaskets and you'll be on the road again
That and couple hundred dollars worth of gaskets and you'll be on the road again
While I was replying to Monty.....you busted this one on me...
:cool:
I'll order the parts.....when can you come....I'll take care of your place to stay, and air fare.....
I have hoist...engine stands...and all the tools required.....While we got the engine out.....maybe send the trans in for an overhaul? Thanks George.....
07-18-2003, 03:33 PM
#9
Team Owner
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (8T1-7T9 BIONIC VETTE)
Check your e-mail.
Your right 4.200 and 4 inch stroke is 443. My buddies shop built a badazz 441 recently with the 4.125 stroke.
I was just thinking how handy it is for me with Summit Racing and my friends shops right here. But we could make do. It's not a big deal to remove and replace a motor with two people. The motor assembly is easy except for those JE piston spiral locks. I got so frustrated I took them down to my friends shop and he had all the pistons on the rods is 30 minutes. I was worried about stratching a piston or destroy the lock
Your right 4.200 and 4 inch stroke is 443. My buddies shop built a badazz 441 recently with the 4.125 stroke.
I was just thinking how handy it is for me with Summit Racing and my friends shops right here. But we could make do. It's not a big deal to remove and replace a motor with two people. The motor assembly is easy except for those JE piston spiral locks. I got so frustrated I took them down to my friends shop and he had all the pistons on the rods is 30 minutes. I was worried about stratching a piston or destroy the lock
07-18-2003, 05:28 PM
#10
Race Director
Thread Starter
Re: 443 ci or the 454 ci Bill Mitchell Small Block Crate Engine (gkull)
GKull,
Got your e-mail....I'll take care of that shortly and see what kind of arrangements I can make for the North Shore.
I have access to a machine shop and they can do the piston rods for us in 30 minutes too. :flag :seeya Cappy
Got your e-mail....I'll take care of that shortly and see what kind of arrangements I can make for the North Shore.
I have access to a machine shop and they can do the piston rods for us in 30 minutes too. :flag :seeya Cappy
