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Comments for Phoenix'97 on the TPI LT1 concept.

 
Old 05-14-2018, 09:46 AM
  #21  
bjankuski
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I will post what I believe you want and we will go from there.

-What modifications do you currently have done to your car? i thought you had headers but then you discuss stock exhaust manifolds?

The parts i am listing will boost power (Torque) on your 350 from 1500 RPM all the way to 5000 RPM but will not cause a reduction in fuel mileage and will work fine with the 3.42 rear gears you have.

-Use your stock heads, have the stripped exhaust bolts fixed with a helicoil, a 10 dollar part
-Have your heads ported by Lloyd Elliot will flow better everywhere and save you money in the long run
-Run a thinner head gasket to get .040 squish clearance, you need the compression
-Use the headers you have or stock manifolds if you want but they will cost power and torque
-use the current intake you have, or if you want a bump in 2500 to 4500 RPM power adapt a FIRST intake to your LT1 heads
-Use the COMP cams that highlighted, the first one will have more torque at very low RPM but both will pull well, the second one will have more power torque from 3500 RPM to 5000 RPM. You cannot go wrong with either one.
-Good tune
Any of these combinations will pull well from 1500 RPM to 5000 RPM and to tell you the truth they will well to 5500 RPM.

The listed combination will work better everywhere when compared to the Stock LT1 or the LT1 with the B-body cam or the LT1 with the grafted Vortec heads on it.








Last edited by bjankuski; 05-14-2018 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:24 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by bjankuski View Post
I will post what I believe you want and we will go from there.

-What modifications do you currently have done to your car? i thought you had headers but then you discuss stock exhaust manifolds?

The parts i am listing will boost power (Torque) on your 350 from 1500 RPM all the way to 5000 RPM but will not cause a reduction in fuel mileage and will work fine with the 3.42 rear gears you have.

-Use your stock heads, have the stripped exhaust bolts fixed with a helicoil, a 10 dollar part
-Have your heads ported by Lloyd Elliot will flow better everywhere and save you money in the long run
-Run a thinner head gasket to get .040 squish clearance, you need the compression
-Use the headers you have or stock manifolds if you want but they will cost power and torque
-use the current intake you have, or if you want a bump in 2500 to 4500 RPM power adapt a FIRST intake to your LT1 heads
-Use the COMP cams that highlighted, the first one will have more torque at very low RPM but both will pull well, the second one will have more power torque from 3500 RPM to 5000 RPM. You cannot go wrong with either one.
-Good tune
Any of these combinations will pull well from 1500 RPM to 5000 RPM and to tell you the truth they will well to 5500 RPM.

The listed combination will work better everywhere when compared to the Stock LT1 or the LT1 with the B-body cam or the LT1 with the grafted Vortec heads on it.







Wow! Thank you.

So I take it we are pushing for the FIRST TPI intake with this set-up, correct? I hope I can utilize emissions on it since I read somewhere that I need some goofy auxiliary set-up for the EGR valve and so on.

Yes, I have plans to purchase improved LT1 exhaust manifolds made by a racing parts company that offers them, and these also bolt on to first-gen SBCs. They lack the heat shields from the factory but if they don't already come ceramic coated I can have them sprayed for a fee so that they won't rust and so that they won't add more heat to the engine bay.

You are right about keeping my aluminum heads. I would hate to have them sitting around and they can be fixed and improved upon and I will research those special coatings that are offered to improve thermal efficiency. It may not be an iron coating but perhaps ceramic will have to do.

Wow, I am really looking forward to this.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:50 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix'97 View Post
You are right about keeping my aluminum heads. I would hate to have them sitting around and they can be fixed and improved upon...
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:58 PM
  #24  
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you are right about keeping my aluminum heads.
lol!!!!!
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:19 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by confab View Post
lol!!!!!
I told you all I think about it after heated discussion!
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:30 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by bjankuski View Post
I will post what I believe you want and we will go from there.

-What modifications do you currently have done to your car? i thought you had headers but then you discuss stock exhaust manifolds?

The parts i am listing will boost power (Torque) on your 350 from 1500 RPM all the way to 5000 RPM but will not cause a reduction in fuel mileage and will work fine with the 3.42 rear gears you have.

-Use your stock heads, have the stripped exhaust bolts fixed with a helicoil, a 10 dollar part
-Have your heads ported by Lloyd Elliot will flow better everywhere and save you money in the long run
-Run a thinner head gasket to get .040 squish clearance, you need the compression
-Use the headers you have or stock manifolds if you want but they will cost power and torque
-use the current intake you have, or if you want a bump in 2500 to 4500 RPM power adapt a FIRST intake to your LT1 heads
-Use the COMP cams that highlighted, the first one will have more torque at very low RPM but both will pull well, the second one will have more power torque from 3500 RPM to 5000 RPM. You cannot go wrong with either one.
-Good tune
Any of these combinations will pull well from 1500 RPM to 5000 RPM and to tell you the truth they will well to 5500 RPM.

The listed combination will work better everywhere when compared to the Stock LT1 or the LT1 with the B-body cam or the LT1 with the grafted Vortec heads on it.







Is there any particular reason why the first cam design is not suitable for this concept? I still have worries about the height of the FIRST TPI intake and whether or not it is emissions compliant. What gains are there with this intake compared to an extrude honed and polished TPI intake with AS&M large tube runners?

I understand the penalty that comes with going back to restrictive reproduction factory exhaust manifolds but the gains I am receiving with my hooker shorty headers versus the sheer inconvenience that comes with access to spark plugs and wires for future maintenance, I have to say it is not worth it. Besides, if GM can crank out the new LT4 and those factory exhaust manifolds are factored into the performance then surely I shouldn't worry much reverting back to my exhaust manifolds. The tune should accommodate for the restriction and if anything can be done with the exhaust piping to address it if possible.
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:15 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix'97 View Post
Is there any particular reason why the first cam design is not suitable for this concept? I still have worries about the height of the FIRST TPI intake and whether or not it is emissions compliant. What gains are there with this intake compared to an extrude honed and polished TPI intake with AS&M large tube runners?

I understand the penalty that comes with going back to restrictive reproduction factory exhaust manifolds but the gains I am receiving with my hooker shorty headers versus the sheer inconvenience that comes with access to spark plugs and wires for future maintenance, I have to say it is not worth it. Besides, if GM can crank out the new LT4 and those factory exhaust manifolds are factored into the performance then surely I shouldn't worry much reverting back to my exhaust manifolds. The tune should accommodate for the restriction and if anything can be done with the exhaust piping to address it if possible.
The FIRST is the same height as the TPI so if the FIRST won't fit either will the TPI. Neither are technically emission compliant with your combination and both will require custom work to make the EGR system function. With the larger cam you may not need EGR since you will get some self EGR that may help you pass emissions if they actually check, but if they just hook up with a scanner then the tune can be adjusted to make it pass. The FIRST is designed with much larger runners then the TPI and even and extruded TPI with Arizona speed and marine runners. The FIRST will bury the TPI system across the board. FYI I have built all of these combinations and the TPI is the hands down loser when compared to the FIRST, Superram, or LT1 intake. On the same 355 engine I ran a ported, and extruded honed Arizona speed and marine set-up and made 276 RWHP and then I switched to a superam which is similar to the FIRST and picked up 40 RWHP and torque everywhere. I finally ran the LT1 intake on my 355 and it picked up some HP on top but lost some down low and ran the same ET as the Superam set-up. So for your application I think the FIRST suites you better.

As far as exhaust manifolds are concerned the LT1 manifolds are log style in design and do not flow very well. You cannot compare exhaust manifolds from the new LT4 to the LT1 and claim they are the same. They are nothing alike, apples to oranges with only the name being the same. If you want to run stock manifolds that is fine but just be aware that you will giving up power and torque but that is your choice.

For the cam I would pick the first one I highlighted if you are concerned about the low end power. To make as much low end power as possible while still making good mid range power you need to open the valves fast and close them fast. The overall duration needs to be short but the .050 number need to be as large as possible to allow the air to get in while the valve is open. The first cam is too small, you will only loss power and toque everywhere when compared to the second cam. As stated TBI style of engine.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:20 AM
  #28  
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Possibly one of the strangest threads ever...
And before you say "Shut up Noob"...I was on this site with a diffrent name in the ealry to mid 2000's when I had an 88 IROC with the L98. I gained some good knowledge here back then.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:43 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GS_Guy View Post
Possibly one of the strangest threads ever...
And before you say "Shut up Noob"...I was on this site with a diffrent name in the ealry to mid 2000's when I had an 88 IROC with the L98. I gained some good knowledge here back then.
I won't say that to you and I won't harass you. Why is this thread strange by the way?
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:54 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by bjankuski View Post
The FIRST is the same height as the TPI so if the FIRST won't fit either will the TPI. Neither are technically emission compliant with your combination and both will require custom work to make the EGR system function. With the larger cam you may not need EGR since you will get some self EGR that may help you pass emissions if they actually check, but if they just hook up with a scanner then the tune can be adjusted to make it pass. The FIRST is designed with much larger runners then the TPI and even and extruded TPI with Arizona speed and marine runners. The FIRST will bury the TPI system across the board. FYI I have built all of these combinations and the TPI is the hands down loser when compared to the FIRST, Superram, or LT1 intake. On the same 355 engine I ran a ported, and extruded honed Arizona speed and marine set-up and made 276 RWHP and then I switched to a superam which is similar to the FIRST and picked up 40 RWHP and torque everywhere. I finally ran the LT1 intake on my 355 and it picked up some HP on top but lost some down low and ran the same ET as the Superam set-up. So for your application I think the FIRST suites you better.

As far as exhaust manifolds are concerned the LT1 manifolds are log style in design and do not flow very well. You cannot compare exhaust manifolds from the new LT4 to the LT1 and claim they are the same. They are nothing alike, apples to oranges with only the name being the same. If you want to run stock manifolds that is fine but just be aware that you will giving up power and torque but that is your choice.

For the cam I would pick the first one I highlighted if you are concerned about the low end power. To make as much low end power as possible while still making good mid range power you need to open the valves fast and close them fast. The overall duration needs to be short but the .050 number need to be as large as possible to allow the air to get in while the valve is open. The first cam is too small, you will only loss power and toque everywhere when compared to the second cam. As stated TBI style of engine.
Thank you for your straight-to-the-point and no b.s. information. I am glad the FIRST intake is the same specs as the factory TPI because room in my fourth-gen engine bay with the overhead metal cowl for the wiper linkage is going to be tight! With regards to EGR, I want to maintain all of my emissions equipment which is why it is imperative that the FIRST be set up as if it were a factory TPI. I read, however, that the FIRST has no provisions for emissions which I hope they can be made.

Yes, the exhaust manifolds will be my choice. I can't risk running long tubes for the daily driving year-round conditions this car faces. Plus, the added expense of modifying my exhaust to make those long tubes work will only make for a more expensive project car.

I trust your take on which camshafts you feel are the best for what I am trying to go for. Of your picks I will probably opt for the #2 cam.

Thank you a million for this, really!
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:05 AM
  #31  
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The TPI intake, shown in the picture, has a water crossover port, in it's construction. Didn't you say that you're working on an LT-1 engine? They don't have a water crossover in the cylinder heads...........
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:37 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
The TPI intake, shown in the picture, has a water crossover port, in it's construction. Didn't you say that you're working on an LT-1 engine? They don't have a water crossover in the cylinder heads...........
Correct, the water passage will not be used if grafted to an LT1 engine. The first will require some custom work to get it installed on a LT1.

Last edited by bjankuski; 05-15-2018 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:43 AM
  #33  
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Just got easier.




They may or may not have EGR capable intakes, call then and find out. They must have had them in the past.



Last edited by bjankuski; 05-15-2018 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:20 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix'97 View Post
I told you all I think about it after heated discussion!
Sorry.. It just struck me as funny.

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Old 05-15-2018, 05:05 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix'97 View Post
You got me off of the C4 Tech/Performance forum. Now I am here and you still are not happy. You are calling me a troll by pestering me as you are after crapping up my threads and continue to do the same here on F-Body General Discussion? Who do I contact for moderation? If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to this thread then back the hell off and cease commenting.
That would be me, Moderators pewter99 & Tact. Feel free to contact us if there's a problem. As far as the "trolling" goes, any reasonable member would find some of your posts suspect, especially the one with another member offering to help you by phone. The forum members I've dealt with by phone were very helpful and no one here is trying to jerk you around if they give you a phone number. With that said, hopefully you get the info you're needing. Have a good week.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:44 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by H P Bushrod View Post
As far as the "trolling" goes, any reasonable member would find some of your posts suspect.....
All of the various "performance parameters" that "Phoenix" spelled out, in post #4, is what made me think that this is some sort of trolling expedition......

I owned a '96 Z/28 for 20 years, and have to say that it was a reasonably quick car, as is. Yes, I made a few minor "tuning" upgrades, but considering that it was a daily driven, street car, it ran pretty strong. I just can't see the reasoning behind wanting to swap a newer design intake manifold, one especially designed for the LT1 engine, for an earlier design, and then further handicap the output with cast iron manifolds.

But, to each his/her own.......
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:46 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
The TPI intake, shown in the picture, has a water crossover port, in it's construction. Didn't you say that you're working on an LT-1 engine? They don't have a water crossover in the cylinder heads...........
The second-generation LT1 that I have uses reverse-flow cooling. Had I decided to throw on a factory TPI and have a machine shop work the base and add material to make it bolt-on to the LT1 heads I would only need to buy a thermostat block-off plate and those intake coolant channels would never be used! I have done plenty of image comparison and studying how the basic cooling of first gen SBCs varies from the reverse cooling of my LT1. They even have a guide to machine LT1 heads to work on SBCs so you can get these systems to work!

With regards to the FIRST TPI, I don't know if Ken could make alterations to his base so that it will fit my LT1 heads or if I need to have a machine shop rework his base. I am pretty determined to have a tuned port injection intake on my LT1!
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:52 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by H P Bushrod View Post
That would be me, Moderators pewter99 & Tact. Feel free to contact us if there's a problem. As far as the "trolling" goes, any reasonable member would find some of your posts suspect, especially the one with another member offering to help you by phone. The forum members I've dealt with by phone were very helpful and no one here is trying to jerk you around if they give you a phone number. With that said, hopefully you get the info you're needing. Have a good week.
That is the problem isn't it? Assuming posts are trolling efforts and especially certain members insisting they have a better build idea that goes against what a poster is asking for and then the thread turning into garbage from that point. I read the forum policies and I can't tell you how many times member violated as per my understanding of them. If you are a moderator I would kindly ask you to check a few posts up on this thread and realize the forum policies being violated. I certainly detect double standards here, nice forum members or not.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:01 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
All of the various "performance parameters" that "Phoenix" spelled out, in post #4, is what made me think that this is some sort of trolling expedition......

I owned a '96 Z/28 for 20 years, and have to say that it was a reasonably quick car, as is. Yes, I made a few minor "tuning" upgrades, but considering that it was a daily driven, street car, it ran pretty strong. I just can't see the reasoning behind wanting to swap a newer design intake manifold, one especially designed for the LT1 engine, for an earlier design, and then further handicap the output with cast iron manifolds.

But, to each his/her own.......
I am not the only one who has asked about this conversion. We certainly are a few among a majority but we exist. I would have to assume your '96 Z28 was in better shape than my daily driver which sees winter time. The trade off of low end torque for higher end power is something I have noticed every day for the past 10 to 11 years of owning my car and having my time to "let loose". I developed a driving habit of cruising in low RPM and higher gear without lugging and for fun, accelerating up to 5000 RPM and then shifting. This specific power band is what I am trying to improve upon because the power of my stock LT1 is not satisfying for me. Now, I have no intentions of trading up my car and in order to give me something "new" when I have the car restomodded with some newer technology and nice cosmetic improvements, I want the engine to behave differently to give me what I seek.

bjankuski has a nice set-up and has cleared up some misconceptions I had, so it's amazing how long it has taken for me to get the answers and suggested build information that I have been seeking. Yes, I admit, I was wrong about many things in my past posts but it's not like I wasn't asking for help. However, that is a can of worms to open up now. I am just thrilled that I now have this information to work with.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:35 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix'97 View Post
The second-generation LT1 that I have uses reverse-flow cooling. Had I decided to throw on a factory TPI and have a machine shop work the base and add material to make it bolt-on to the LT1 heads I would only need to buy a thermostat block-off plate and those intake coolant channels would never be used! I have done plenty of image comparison and studying how the basic cooling of first gen SBCs varies from the reverse cooling of my LT1. They even have a guide to machine LT1 heads to work on SBCs so you can get these systems to work!

With regards to the FIRST TPI, I don't know if Ken could make alterations to his base so that it will fit my LT1 heads or if I need to have a machine shop rework his base. I am pretty determined to have a tuned port injection intake on my LT1!
look at previous post, i highlighted the lt1 intake part, just buy the lt1 intake and move on.
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