NMCA C4/C5/C6 Shootout May 1-3 - Bowling Green, KY

how many 10.0 guys will be totally legal for next year??

 
Old 09-03-2008, 05:32 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by REDGAR View Post
Yeah I would expect a fully legal car would want to run in 10.0 (and keep in mind there is no change at the moment...I am just gathering input)

I would think a fully caged car is going to be all over 10.0 and would want to play in 10.5. Mark is in the middle of rebuilding and he has stated he would go to 10.5 on his build. I would imagine a conservative non power adder motor that happens to sit in a car that ran 8.8s at one point with a totally different combination.
Only his hairdresser (and engine builder) will know for sure.
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:31 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by _twisted_ View Post
Think about it E, if it worked that way - $1.00 worth of washers is all that is needed and not $900 program - I am not saying make it illegal, I am saying remove the rule! Corvette Power


Thats exactly what Rob used to do and it got old, so for $550 we set him up with EFI live so he could do it via computer. I would think a carbed car would be easier, just a turn of a set screw or linkage adjustment.
Either way if you made a mistake you can change it mid track so it's dialing in your car, the same as everyone else, which path you take is up to you. For my guys it was much easier to teach them that then to have them mess with timing etc etc.
I personally think I did a good job of getting my crew self sufficient with dialing in their cars and not having to rely on me to be there every time, it makes them more into the whole race scene IMO and that's what it's all about.
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:39 AM
  #43  
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did you mean CAN or CANNOT change it mid track?
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:45 AM
  #44  
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It CANNOT be changed mid track! The PCM must be flashed everytime a change or adjustment is made.
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:58 AM
  #45  
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That is what I thought he meant
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:14 PM
  #46  
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Sorry Edgar, yes CANNOT change mid track.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:11 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by DOUG @ ECS View Post
Thats exactly what Rob used to do and it got old, so for $550 we set him up with EFI live so he could do it via computer. I would think a carbed car would be easier, just a turn of a set screw or linkage adjustment.
Either way if you made a mistake you can change it mid track so it's dialing in your car, the same as everyone else, which path you take is up to you. For my guys it was much easier to teach them that then to have them mess with timing etc etc.
I personally think I did a good job of getting my crew self sufficient with dialing in their cars and not having to rely on me to be there every time, it makes them more into the whole race scene IMO and that's what it's all about.
In the begining of the year I used to look over at the Shen team and watch them make adjustments to the carb and I would stand there looking at my car wondering which screws to turn Then I started adding/deleting weight (bags of sand) not every safe. Then I made wood shims for under the pedal ( not constant) Most of the time I would chase Doug around the track and have him adjust the timing with his computer (not fun) Now it's great, I can make tune adjustments myself and Doug is off the hook
Bottom line is ECS raised the bar and made the DBW cars competitive which is a good thing, so us corvette guys can go out and maybe win at other events.
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:10 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by REDGAR View Post
So to try and get us back on topic....
I only see 9 cars.
it could be 8. Mike are you saying both your cars are running 10.0 next year?

I am not really seeing all 9 on the list jumping up and saying they will run 10.0.

I am also not seeing enough cars to sustain a 16 car field all season.

So with that said, I would like to see all agree or disagree to the 10/10.5 proposal
Yes Edgar i would . especially if throttle stops were legal , for sure. I may have to anyway , because i'm going to retire all of the pro8 guys this year .

lets talk the 9.0 -9.5 index class.........
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:43 PM
  #49  
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How about you get the cars running 8.50 to go 9.0 or 9.50 with you and we still keep calling it what it is?

You have to tell me exactly what you mean with throttle stop. I know you always walk a slightly different line than me and I know you mean well.

If you are talking EFI live for the C5...have it it.

I don't know about your C4 though.
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:54 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by REDGAR View Post
How about you get the cars running 8.50 to go 9.0 or 9.50 with you and we still keep calling it what it is?

You have to tell me exactly what you mean with throttle stop. I know you always walk a slightly different line than me and I know you mean well.

If you are talking EFI live for the C5...have it it.

I don't know about your C4 though.
c4 and elevator timers work
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:59 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by cuttin lights View Post
c4 and elevator timers work
What is a elevator timer? How does it work?
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:07 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by 4DRUSH View Post
What is a elevator timer? How does it work?
tdr with no/nc circuits works depending on what you want to do with it.
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:18 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by DOUG @ ECS View Post
I could understand if we were able to do the things that a throttle stop can do, but we cant, simple as that?
It surely CAN be done. They'd just have to do what us gear bangers do Doug. Figure out shift points & shift early to run the #. I'm not sure if the vette automatics can be manually shifted at particular shift points, but for me, having the pcm regulate throttle output, timing, etc, is dialing the computer to run the race for you. In fact that's a pre-race electronic aid in my book, but it is legal as far as the rules say so good for the guys utilizing it. They found an edge & are taking advantage of it. An automatic w/ a pcm tweaked to run a number is destined to succeed. Everyone looks for an edge in competition so to the tuners & their racers for that. No crying or complaining from me! Just stating the obvious, nothing against anyone doing that....HONEST!

Originally Posted by REDGAR View Post
Stop with the throttle stop.
a car tuned to 85% is no different than a driver put his foot down 85% of the way, a nitrous driver changing a jet or a driver putting 100 lbs in the car to slow a tenth
I think it is different, because the driver going 85% throttle with his foot has no real way to know at what % his foot actually is!

The Nitrous driver in your example who ONLY took out hp, STILL has to figure out on his own how to run the #.
Same thing with the weight added. I believe Joe Latona took #1 qualifier in TWO classes by running the # on his own, (NO PCM tuning)so kuddos to him for doing it & showing it CAN be done!

As the rules are, I agree what guys are doing is legit, so I would never complain. Besides that, my performance in the 11.5 index thus far states that I'd do better trying to do better then to bitch about guys doing stuff perfectly within the rules! I'd be the 1st to admit that.

Again, I'm not hating on ANYONE or complaining!!!! I admire the guys for running their cars in different classes & F'ing with their tunes actually. Again, just stating facts.

Ron
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:25 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by DOUG @ ECS View Post
I personally think I did a good job of getting my crew self sufficient with dialing in their cars and not having to rely on me to be there every time, it makes them more into the whole race scene IMO and that's what it's all about.
YES you did Doug. It's funny seeing the guys in their cars on their laptops at the track between runs- they've become computer geek racers!!!

Back on topic!

Ron
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:16 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by _twisted_ View Post
tdr with no/nc circuits works depending on what you want to do with it.
Don't know what your saying Please explain
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:12 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by REDGAR View Post
Insanity's list is a pipe dream. Tommy and I already told him we are not putting a caage in our cars. **** you guys all going 10.0x, great class, I step down and quick slowing you down. Eckert sold his car a month ago. Zona? doubt it. he did not even race yesterday. Conway and Monari...one of those cars goes 8.50 doesn't it.

I would like the see the three others come on here and commit.
I won't be putting a cage in the C-5 either. The Orange one has one already but that is a project that is down the road a ways.
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:15 AM
  #57  
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[QUOTE=REDGAR;1566963261]How about you get the cars running 8.50 to go 9.0 or 9.50 with you and we still keep calling it what it is? /QUOTE]

Now were back to the Pro 8. I vote for making it a 9.0 or even a 9.5. We could have a similiar situation with the Pro 8 guys inadvertently running under 8.5 and violating the cage rules. I suspect RP would want that to cease.

I prefer 9.5 just as I do the 10.5 (although I like the compromise to keep the 10.0 a mix with 10.5 and have a run-off) to increase the participation.
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:55 AM
  #58  
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Doc,

It isnt as easy as it looks. Especially with a supercharged car. The air temp, humidity and DA play a huge factor in trying to run a number. One minute 83% means 11.22, and 20 minutes later it means 11.40. Just like practicing with your car, we have to do the same. But when my car slows down due to the ambient air, I cannot shift at a higher RPM. Because I am ALL OUT, not holding anything back, and I have proven this two 11.5 indexes in a row by breaking out because the car went faster with no adjustments.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:06 AM
  #59  
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[QUOTE=markshaw70redBB;1566966599]
Originally Posted by REDGAR View Post
How about you get the cars running 8.50 to go 9.0 or 9.50 with you and we still keep calling it what it is? /QUOTE]

Now were back to the Pro 8. I vote for making it a 9.0 or even a 9.5. We could have a similiar situation with the Pro 8 guys inadvertently running under 8.5 and violating the cage rules. I suspect RP would want that to cease.

I prefer 9.5 just as I do the 10.5 (although I like the compromise to keep the 10.0 a mix with 10.5 and have a run-off) to increase the participation.

Although my first thought on slowing a class down is no, but you are 100% correct, we would have more participation if the classes were 10.5 and 9.5, and fields would be even tighter.
The 8.5 class has become a pocket book class for our league of racing, and the car count proves it. Plus like you said, people will start breaking out and we will be in the same place as the 10.0.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:35 AM
  #60  
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[QUOTE=DOUG @ ECS;1566967712]
Originally Posted by markshaw70redBB View Post


Although my first thought on slowing a class down is no, but you are 100% correct, we would have more participation if the classes were 10.5 and 9.5, and fields would be even tighter. The 8.5 class has become a pocket book class for our league of racing, and the car count proves it. Plus like you said, people will start breaking out and we will be in the same place as the 10.0.
I've been saying that all along. For the few guys that are/will be legal, they can run in the 9.5 as well as the 10.5 Plus theres plenty of other 10.00 events in the NE.
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