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Electric Cars Hate Winter

 
Old 02-07-2019, 05:37 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by ptindall View Post
Except that EVs and hybrids also have a 12V car battery they need in order to start, so..... same thing.
Yeah, that was kind of my point. The EV batteries aren't killed by the cold, and the 12v starter battery is same/same as ICE, so "electric cars hate winter" is kind of inaccurate.

My hybrid with snow tires did great in all kinds of cold and snowy weather. Blizzaks mounted on steelies. I did suffer reduced mileage in super cold temps.....only 40mpg-ish.

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Old 02-07-2019, 06:29 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
Ever heard of "government intervention"??

When I think of electric cars, I think of what I call the "Myrtle Beach Test". One of my buddies used to own a condo unit in North Myrtle Beach, SC. It was 825 miles from my house to that condo, and I rented it from him a number of times, over the years. And several times, over those years, I made the trip home, in one fell swoop. 825 miles, with a couple of stops primarily for gas, and a stop for some food and a "top off" of gas. Could I do that with an electric car???
No, you couldn't. And that's the main reason that most people don't like the EV's. But, most of the EV owners have their EV as a second vehicle. Around town, across the metro areas, back and forth, and so on. They have a gasoline driven vehicle for longer trips.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by USe-car View Post
No, you couldn't. And that's the main reason that most people don't like the EV's. But, most of the EV owners have their EV as a second vehicle. Around town, across the metro areas, back and forth, and so on. They have a gasoline driven vehicle for longer trips.
We rent cars for longer trips anymore. Mile up someone else's car, get something fun to have for a week or two. If you rent away from an airport, you don't get hit with as many surcharges, and weekly rentals are pretty reasonable.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:41 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by American Made View Post
Until some pesky scientist one day says sitting on a lithium battery for hours shrinks your nuts.
That would be unfortunate.

For me, it's like this: If I'm still able to drive when the time comes that I'd be forced to drive an EV, I'll likely be happy and settle for the fact that I can still drive at all.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:43 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by scottycards View Post
Yeah, that was kind of my point. The EV batteries aren't killed by the cold, and the 12v starter battery is same/same as ICE, so "electric cars hate winter" is kind of inaccurate.

My hybrid with snow tires did great in all kinds of cold and snowy weather. Blizzaks mounted on steelies. I did suffer reduced mileage in super cold temps.....only 40mpg-ish.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:00 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by USe-car View Post
Seems like the more that people write about disliking them, the more auto makers develop future models as electric. Most everything that I read is about converting to electric. All manufactures, all models. Both cars and trucks.
oh man - now we will be only left to get our fuel from socialist and crooks....

f electric
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:00 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by scottycards View Post
Cold can completely kill an ICE battery, we've all experienced it.
I have not, but it sounds like fun.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:10 PM
  #48  
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We have a 2018 Honda Accord Hybrid, and it looses some mpg in colder weather. From mid-to-high 40's (EPA rating is 47/47/47), down to low 40's during our northern CA "winter" (it sometimes gets below freezing overnight, and early morning). Some owners in the upper midwest and Canada have reported as low was low-to-mid 30's....

With a hybrid, as opposed to an EV, it also matters whether you are making very short trips or not, since the gas engine does provide heat once warmed up. But in cold weather the gas engine is needing to run more often. To help keep the coolant warm when the engine is shut off, there are some moving louvers in the grille, that block air flow to the radiator when the gas engine is off. And like a lot of cars, there are some tricks played with the exhaust gas routing to give faster warm-up from a cold start.

The Honda hybrid drivetrain is different from Toyota's, operating a lot of the time in "series hybrid" mode, where the gas engine is basically acting as a generator, and propulsion is coming just from the main electric motor. But at highway cruising speed, the gas engine does mechanically couple to the electric motor. There's no real transmission for the gas engine, it is coupled, or not coupled, to the electric drive motor at a single, fixed gear ratio.

There are also two electric "motors" in the car - the main drive motor, plus another motor that is basically acting as a generator, and is permanently coupled to the gas engine. It is that motor/generator that is also used as the starter motor. (So in our car, it is the main high-voltage hybrid battery pack that is providing power to the "starter motor", and also is being charged by that same motor when the gas engine is on.) There IS a small 12 volt battery, basically used to power the electronics of the car, as well as things like lighting, window motors, power seats, etc., when the gas engine is off. The big generator puts out high voltage for the main hybrid battery, but there is also a DC-to-DC converter to keep the small 12v battery charged up.

As a "regular" hybrid, not a plug-in, I am still needing to gas up regularly, just less often. Even with a small 12.8 gallon gas tank, the range is in the neighborhood of 600 miles (more like lower 500's during cold weather). And with a 0-60 time of 6.7 seconds, the car is decently quick when you need it.

Last edited by SilverC1; 02-07-2019 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:17 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by scottycards View Post
Yeah, that was kind of my point. The EV batteries aren't killed by the cold, and the 12v starter battery is same/same as ICE, so "electric cars hate winter" is kind of inaccurate.

My hybrid with snow tires did great in all kinds of cold and snowy weather. Blizzaks mounted on steelies. I did suffer reduced mileage in super cold temps.....only 40mpg-ish.
Cool ride because black wheels.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:18 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by American Made View Post
Cool ride because black wheels.
Itchy nutz>black wheels
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:19 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Lee C View Post
Itchy nutz>black wheels
What about cancerous nuts.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:20 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by American Made View Post
What about cancerous nuts.

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Old 02-07-2019, 08:21 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Lee C View Post
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:37 PM
  #54  
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Not a hijack! I turned a corner up a hill at a 4 way stop and this dude wearing a cool Stig type helmet in black was on what looked like a typical electric Bird scooter until I noticed it had a rear tire about 6 inches wide and a heavy duty sprocket. I goosed it a little up the hill and when I looked back he was right behind me. Don't know what brand but I said "damn that's pretty cool"
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by American Made View Post
Not a hijack! I turned a corner up a hill at a 4 way stop and this dude wearing a cool Stig type helmet in black was on what looked like a typical electric Bird scooter until I noticed it had a rear tire about 6 inches wide and a heavy duty sprocket. I goosed it a little up the hill and when I looked back he was right behind me. Don't know what brand but I said "damn that's pretty cool"
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/ca/zero-s
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:43 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Lee C View Post
This was just like a Bird or Lyft scooter. Really simple, maybe home made who knows but that thing had torque!
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:09 AM
  #57  
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I looked for the temperature limits on Tesla batteries (-22F to 140F, not more than 24 hours exposure) and found a post from a Tesla owner complaining that he doesn't get fast charge anymore and it was explained by Tesla that after enough fast charge sessions charging rate is decreased to aid in the life of the battery.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:39 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by jfb View Post
I looked for the temperature limits on Tesla batteries (-22F to 140F, not more than 24 hours exposure) and found a post from a Tesla owner complaining that he doesn't get fast charge anymore and it was explained by Tesla that after enough fast charge sessions charging rate is decreased to aid in the life of the battery.
I was surprised to learn how long the Tesla batteries can last. There are some writings about vehicles with a couple hundred thousand miles and the batteries still be over 90% efficient.

https://www.teslarati.com/how-long-w...t-degradation/

...Though the battery degradation data along with the accompanying analysis by Teslanomics is based only on a small overall sample set of Tesla owners, the results do align with real world data from a high mileage Model S that registered over 200k mi (322k km). Electric mobility company Tesloop reported a 6% loss in range after 200k miles of driving.

Looking farther ahead to the 2170 cell-based vehicles, we expect battery degradation to become even more negligible, especially as Tesla continues to implement learnings captured through billions of miles driven by current vehicles equipped with the 18650 packs....


That's been a main concern about electric vehicles though, how long will the batteries last. The lady up the street leases a Tesla. She is on her second EV. She says she leases instead of buying out of concern that the batteries will not last long. That appears to be wrong though. If taken care of well the batteries should last a long time.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:48 AM
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So,


At 20F, the cars lost an average of 12% of their range, relative to the baseline temperature of 75F, whereas they lost only 4% in the warmer 95F scenario.

Firing up the heater or air conditioner took things to a whole new level: in the cold, with their heaters on, cars lost 41% of their range and in the heat, with the air conditioning on, they lost 17%.






Wonder how these cars would do here. Last week it was -30 to -40 degrees. Bet another 60 degree drop with the heater on and you could walk farther than these cars max range.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:53 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by c5rulz View Post
So,


At 20F, the cars lost an average of 12% of their range, relative to the baseline temperature of 75F, whereas they lost only 4% in the warmer 95F scenario.

Firing up the heater or air conditioner took things to a whole new level: in the cold, with their heaters on, cars lost 41% of their range and in the heat, with the air conditioning on, they lost 17%.





Wonder how these cars would do here. Last week it was -30 to -40 degrees. Bet another 60 degree drop with the heater on and you could walk farther than these cars max range.
The owner of the company I work for owns two Tesla cars and told me one day that Tesla cars were made for California.
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