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Bitcoin lol

 
Old 05-15-2019, 09:13 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by SLO VETTE View Post
Do you know how or where the underlying Bitcoin is held for custodial purposes?

That's an important question.
third party servers(vault-wallet) which is allegedly very well protected via multi signature password security.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:22 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by SLO VETTE View Post
Have you ever owned Bitcoin? If you haven't, you might take some time to learn what an exchange is, how they operate, and lo & behold how some exhanges get hacked and lose the Bitcoin assets owned by individuals.

Imagine if GTBC had it's Bitcoin stored at Mt. Gox, for example.
I havent owned bitcoin. I'm not really interested in doing so. I could see owning GTBC because I could treat it like any other stock or ETF.
Could it get wiped out because of some sort of theft? I'm sure it could, but that's really not any different than owning stock in a company that reports really bad news. STMP comes to mind.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:06 PM
  #43  
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At least in a company you can do research prior to owning a stock, and monitor it going forward. In owning what's effectively a Bitcoin ETF trading at a 100%+ premium to the underlying asset, plus fees, the risk is stuff you don't even understand or know of. Things like the entire asset base could be stolen overnight from hackers, or insiders.

But as a "Pattern Day Trader" you don't care about that, right? The trend is your friend, regardless of the tradable instrument.



Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
I havent owned bitcoin. I'm not really interested in doing so. I could see owning GTBC because I could treat it like any other stock or ETF.
Could it get wiped out because of some sort of theft? I'm sure it could, but that's really not any different than owning stock in a company that reports really bad news. STMP comes to mind.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:19 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by SLO VETTE View Post
At least in a company you can do research prior to owning a stock, and monitor it going forward. In owning what's effectively a Bitcoin ETF trading at a 100%+ premium to the underlying asset, plus fees, the risk is stuff you don't even understand or know of. Things like the entire asset base could be stolen overnight from hackers, or insiders.

But as a "Pattern Day Trader" you don't care about that, right? The trend is your friend, regardless of the tradable instrument.
Yeah I almost never hold overnight positions. Once in awhile I'll buy in after hours trading with the intention of selling the next morning. About the only other circumstance is when oil is going up I might hold a position in an oil producer for a day or two.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:32 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
Yeah I almost never hold overnight positions. Once in awhile I'll buy in after hours trading with the intention of selling the next morning. About the only other circumstance is when oil is going up I might hold a position in an oil producer for a day or two.
If you think owning a security only during 1 day protects you from 100% loss, then you are badly mistaken. You have the same risk as all other investors including those holding securities for the long term.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:44 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by jfb View Post
If you think owning a security only during 1 day protects you from 100% loss, then you are badly mistaken. You have the same risk as all other investors including those holding securities for the long term.
A stock or other security can be halted at any time, but intra day traders dont have overnight risk, and that's that.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:12 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
A stock or other security can be halted at any time, but intra day traders dont have overnight risk, and that's that.
And of course ALL security failures only occur at night so anyone holding a security during daylight hours is perfectly safe !
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:50 AM
  #48  
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People still trade BTC or other cryptocurrencies?

If BTC is a currency why doesn't it make a splash on forex? Investors only trade BTC because of the float. It has no inherent value. It has a predetermined quantity and value. Whereas currencies can continue to grow without the constraints of BTC. Currencies are stable because the volume ensures liquidity and relative pricing stability. BTC enjoys none of this.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:20 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by jfb View Post
And of course ALL security failures only occur at night so anyone holding a security during daylight hours is perfectly safe !
In spite of your sarcasm, that is mostly true. Its a pretty rare situation where something is halted, and it doesn't resume within 10 minutes. This is true even for low float penny stocks. In fact, off the top of my head, I can only think of one. DRYS, but that was actually halted in pre. So that would fall into the "overnight risk" category.

Last edited by PatternDayTrader; 05-16-2019 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:37 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
In spite of your sarcasm, that is mostly true. Its a pretty rare situation where something is halted, and it doesn't resume within 10 minutes. This is true even for low float penny stocks. In fact, off the top of my head, I can only think of one. DRYS, but that was actually halted in pre. So that would fall into the "overnight risk" category.
One of the owners sons had three sugar futures contracts long. Sugar shortly after the opening was down the daily limit and trading was stopped.....three days in a row and the son had an order in but it never got filled. He lost $9900 each day for three days.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:47 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by jfb View Post
One of the owners sons had three sugar futures contracts long. Sugar shortly after the opening was down the daily limit and trading was stopped.....three days in a row and the son had an order in but it never got filled. He lost $9900 each day for three days.
Commodities trading is something totally different. There is an easy way to deal with that sort of thing anyway. Its called a market order.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:24 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
Commodities trading is something totally different. There is an easy way to deal with that sort of thing anyway. Its called a market order.

A market order can only help you if you are in the first few trades that get executed BEFORE the security moves to its daily limit whereupon trading is stopped for that day. Commodity trading is no different than any other security traded that has a daily limit.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:29 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by jfb View Post
A market order can only help you if you are in the first few trades that get executed BEFORE the security moves to its daily limit whereupon trading is stopped for that day. Commodity trading is no different than any other security traded that has a daily limit.
Commodity markets are the only ones with daily limits, and if you think about it then it becomes apparent why.
As far as your comment about market orders, all you have to do is send the order before the halt. Your friend just isn't a very good trader. Its not the markets fault.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:30 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
Commodity markets are the only ones with daily limits, and if you think about it then it becomes apparent why.
As far as your comment about market orders, all you have to do is send the order before the halt. Your friend just isn't a very good trader. Its not the markets fault.
Commodity AND option markets have daily limits that stop trading for the day. My friend was a good trader but he just got caught in a severe down daily limit on sugar futures three days in a row that he couldn't do anything about. Market order notwithstanding (which cannot protect you against limit days).
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:40 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by jfb View Post
Commodity AND option markets have daily limits that stop trading for the day. My friend was a good trader but he just got caught in a severe down daily limit on sugar futures three days in a row that he couldn't do anything about. Market order notwithstanding (which cannot protect you against limit days).
Ok well I don't trade either of those. I don't think your right either, but it doesn't matter. Back to the original point, if you don't hold overnight positions, then you don't have overnight risk.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:05 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by flange View Post
I am curious, which tangible asset backs your transaction when you swipe a visa card? Also, which tangible asset makes a piece of paper worth more because it has a ten written on it in lieu of a one?
A government with guns and prisons give the dollar value. It isn’t a coincidence, we got an income tax at the same time we got a central bank.

I’m starting to think there’s a good chance, bitcoin might be a beta testing platform for our next gov’t imposed currency.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:25 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Dan47 View Post
A government with guns and prisons give the dollar value. It isn’t a coincidence, we got an income tax at the same time we got a central bank.

I’m starting to think there’s a good chance, bitcoin might be a beta testing platform for our next gov’t imposed currency.
That's not a far fetched idea.
Call in the paper currency, replace it with something digital, and crush the underground cash economy.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:38 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
That's not a far fetched idea.
Call in the paper currency, replace it with something digital, and crush the underground cash economy.
Not sure it will crush the underground economy, or if that is even one of the objectives? Some underground areas of our economy, have been documented using tide detergent as a currency!

I think our current system has hit its limits on debt, so many forces are at work against it, automation, productive overcapacity, etc. To remain viable, this system would require the “broken window” destruction that comes with a world war.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:47 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Dan47 View Post
Not sure it will crush the underground economy, or if that is even one of the objectives? Some underground areas of our economy, have been documented using tide detergent as a currency!

I think our current system has hit its limits on debt, so many forces are at work against it, automation, productive overcapacity, etc. To remain viable, this system would require the “broken window” destruction that comes with a world war.
A digital currency would add another layer of complexity to any commerce that occurs in cash. This would be the excuse to do it. The real objective would be control.
As far as the current system hitting or approaching a limit, well I'm sure our "leaders" will find a way to make things worse.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:45 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
A digital currency would add another layer of complexity to any commerce that occurs in cash. This would be the excuse to do it. The real objective would be control.
As far as the current system hitting or approaching a limit, well I'm sure our "leaders" will find a way to make things worse.
Absolutely and with that complexity and control, comes opportunities such as the ability to impose negative interest rates and various other fees.

I quit accepting credit cards years ago, as I considered the merchant fees outrageous. Cashless will take that ability away and I imagine credit card incentives such as “miles”, will disappear too. Seems they are giving us the rope to hang ourselves with.
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