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Old 06-20-2019, 09:10 AM
  #21  
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We're still debating. People keep talking about battery fires...need to look that one up. I have a few friends with the S models, and they love them!
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:30 AM
  #22  
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You won't find much info on EV battery fires. The real news is suppressed.

It's a government/Tesla/EV conspiracy.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:24 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
Joe as Rush Limbaugh says, I'll be debating with you with 1/2 of my brain tied behind my back.

My present Mercedes is getting quite old, but is the most dependable vehicle I have ever owned. I'm retired but I still have 4 cars, When I want to go fast, I have a Z06 for that purpose so I don't need a super quick SUV to drive to Walmart(I'm not that far from a Walmart so that I have to accelerate 0-60 in 2.4 seconds to able to get home before my frozen foods defrost). Do you think that cop sitting in the next lane at a traffic light will be impressed when I drive my new $140,000 P100D Ludicrous Tesla 0-60 in 2.4 seconds? I bet he will be so impressed that he will pull me over and ask for my autograph.

Would he be impressed if the same scenario with your cars?

Most of my driving is around town, which makes the Tesla ideal, but I do drive on long trips, so I want a vehicle that also goes ANYWHERE/EVERYWHERE with zero concern about getting gasoline or a fast charge with an EV.

Glad to see you starting to agree with the dark side. You do see some value in a Tesla. ) Not everyone takes long trips all the time. If they do because they have a Tesla they won't mind the charging time (which usually coincides with meal time), or like most people fly when the distance is that long.

I also want luxury but at a reasonable price(I am on a fixed income), and since a small SUV looks to suit my needs I'm comparing a new Tesla Model X 75D standard range at $82,000 and a Lexus NX Hybrid at $41,000. Since I am not a current owner of a Tesla I am not eligible for their limited free charging if I refer someone to Tesla. That means that I have to pay for my electricity($0.12Kw) when I charge at home(with and additional couple thousand dollar level 2 charger that I have to purchase), and when I use a Tesla Supercharger while on a road trip, Tesla charges $0.29 per Kw. If there is no Supercharger available I have to pay to use other chargers of around $0.36Kw.

If you have to worry about the purchase price, buy a Yugo.

(with a 100% charge, which Tesla doesn't like to do), so, in reality, the range is 60% of that(20% to 80%) of that 255 mile range that Tesla claims.

Joe none of this is true, none of it.


. The Lexus NX Hybrid gets 33 in town and 30 on the highway with a 14.8 gallon gas tank. It takes no longer to fill the tank to 100%(from 80% full that only takes a minute) full but it almost takes twice as long to charge a Tesla to 100%. So now the Tesla Model X 75 D only has a 150 mile range(running the range down to 41 miles remaining)vs the Lexus's 400 mile range(running the tank down to 41 miles remaining).

See my comment above - all bull **** from you.

With the Tesla Model X 75D costing twice as much as the Lexus NX Hybrid, that $41,000 dollars I save by buying the Lexus buys a **** load of gasoline. 30 miles per gallon for 7,500 miles annually would take some 55 years for me to recoup that additional $41,000 dollars that the Tesla Model X 75D costs over the Lexus NX Hybrid.

Now, compare actual driving that I do(outside of local intown driving). In August and again in February, I plan on driving to Chama, NM to ride the Cumbres & Toltec steam powered train. That is a 950 mile trip each direction.

I won't bore you to death by listing the route planner that Tesla has on their website. that lays out the trip and tells you where and for how long you have to charge the Tesla Model X 75D for that trip.

Some of us consider that a benefit.


Believe me when I say the Lexus NX hybrid will save you about 3 hours vs stopping and charging the Tesla Model X 75D each direction. Then you have to find someone that will let you plug your long extension cord into their 110 volt outlet at their house or business as there are no chargers of any kind in Chama, NM(look it up on PlugShare).




Plus I can buy the Lexus locally and get it serviced locally, not some 4 hours away.

My S/C is not 4 hours away. Tesla has a great mobile service that comes to you and can fix most problems. Keep in mind that there are many fewer things to go wrong. I did have one problem that caused my driver's seat to be replaced. One of the sensors went bad (I know that is proof that Teslas are no good). Mobile service came out with a new seat and replaced im my driveway. It took about 3/4 of an hour. I didn't have to make an appointment , drive to a dealer, and/or let the car sit there all day while they repaired it. Of course, I schedule my service through my cell phone app which is very convenient.

Just my opinion of ICE vs EV for all around driving, for my needs. Your needs may very well differ.
Yes, your needs are your needs but they are not mine nor anyone else's. Your needs do not affect everyone else as you preach.
Peace, out!

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Old 06-20-2019, 01:16 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by ThePirate View Post
Yes, your needs are your needs but they are not mine nor anyone else's. Your needs do not affect everyone else as you preach.
Peace, out!
Now I understand why you can't debate using facts to support your arguments. You are debating with half your brain.

AS for my bull **** about the tesla range, here are the facts. Using Tesla's website to plan a trip from Springfield MO to Chama, NM, with a new Tesla Model X standard range that costs twice as much as the Lexus NX Hybrid.

This is the route charging stops that Tesla says to use. Why would they say to charge if it isn't needed? If the range is 255 miles, then why does Tesla have you stopping every 59 miles to 113 miles to charge your battery along the Interstate?.

Springfield, MO to Joplin, MO, 72 miles. charge for 20 minutes.

Joplin, MO to Catoosa, OK, 98 miles, charge for 40 minutes. It's 170 miles from Springfield, MO to Catoosa, Ok but Tesla says to stop and charge in Joplin. Why if the range of the Tesla is 255 miles?

Catoosa, Ok to Perry, OK 94 miles. Charge for 30 minutes.
Perry, OK to Oklahoma City, OK. 64 miles. Charge for 25 minutes. This a real kicker. On I44 it's only 122 miles from Catoosa to Oklahoma city, yet Tesla doesn't think the Tesla will make it, so they send you on a 2 lane highway detour to Perry, OK(on I-35) for a charge, and then back down to Oklahoma City to get back on track( a wasted 36 mile detour.)

Oklahoma City to Weatherford, OK. 70 miles. Charge for 45 minutes.

Weatherford, Ok to Shamrock, TX. 94 miles. Charge for 50 minutes. This is where I spend the night at the Sleep Inn. There are 11 restaurants in Shamrock, but only one is across the street for the Supercharger in Shamrock. If you don't want to eat at that particular restaurant, you will have to charge your car for 50 minutes and then drive to another location for dinner(unless you don't mind walking a mile or two each way from the Supercharger to a restaurant while your Tesla is charging).

The next morning......

Shamrock to Amarillo, TX, 94 miles. Charge for 35 minutes.

Amarillo to Tucumcari, NM. 113 miles, Charge for 20 minutes.

Tucumcari, NM to Santa Rosa, NM 59 miles. Charge for 50 minutes.

Santa Rosa, NM to Santa Fe, NM 106 miles. Charge for 35 minutes.

Santa Fe, NM to Chama, NM. 106 miles. No charger(of any kind) available in Chama, NM. so you have to beg someone to let you plug in your mighty Tesla into their home's 110 volt system and charge for 35 hours in order to et back to Santa Fe to a Supercharger.

Those charge times do not include slowing down to 30 MPH to exit the Interstate, drive slowly to the Supercharger location, and then back to the on ramp to the Highway. At only 10 minutes to drive to the Supercharger, etc for each charge, you have waisted 45-50 minutes all day, whereas I just blew by you in my Lexus ICE at 75-80 MPH. I only have to make two stops for gasoline and never have any thoughts of running out of gasoline while you have to stop nine times. Why is that if the range is 255 miles on the Tesla Model X standard range?. Nine times to drive 950 miles plus trying to find someone in Chama to let you plug in your Tesla into their home for 35 hours, and then you have to walk from your motel to a restaurant, from your motel to the train depot, etc, while your Tesla is charging a the rate of 3 miles of range for each hour charged at someone's home.

Now, debate all your claims of bull **** with Tesla, where I got all the above info. Not a single piece of it was from my "bull ****" imagination.

You think my views are nobody else's views. That is bull ****. Of the 950 mile trip(one way) 844 of those miles are driving on a heavily trafficked I-44 and I-40. Other people also drive on I-44 and I-40. so if they are in a Tesla. they will have to stop every 59 to 113 miles to get a charge, If they are driving an ICE(like the Lexus NX hybrid), they don't have to make all those unnecessary stops. They save some 2-3 hours by not sitting in a car waiting for a charge.

Last edited by JoesC5; 06-20-2019 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:59 PM
  #25  
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I give up trying to argue with an idiot who knows nothing about he is talking about re Teslas. All your BS above can be disproven by anyone who has owned a Tesla but I will not take as much time to do so as you did to "get" your "fake facts.," Regardless of the proof I could provide, you will disagree with it. Just go on thinking I have a long extension cord and I take 35 hours to charge my car. Glad at least you have the capacity to recognize that a Teslas would be ideal for your normal use but not your 950 mile trips that you do just twice a year.

damn, you sucked me in. Here's the charging from the Tesla website:

you say 10 charging stops, they say 5:
  • Springfield, MO, USA



  • Catoosa, OK

    25 min charge

  • Oklahoma City, OK

    50 min charge

  • Shamrock, TX

    30 min charge

  • Amarillo, TX

    45 min charge

  • Santa Rosa, NM

    65 min charge

  • Chama, NM 87520, USA
    Duration: 18 h (930 mi)

Est. Gas Savings $121

So 5 stops not 10. I'll just leave it there. You are full of **** when it comes to objectively debating anything Tesla.








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Old 06-20-2019, 02:37 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ThePirate View Post
I give up trying to argue with an idiot who knows nothing about he is talking about re Teslas. All your BS above can be disproven by anyone who has owned a Tesla but I will not take as much time to do so as you did to "get" your "fake facts.," Regardless of the proof I could provide, you will disagree with it. Just go on thinking I have a long extension cord and I take 35 hours to charge my car. Glad at least you have the capacity to recognize that a Teslas would be ideal for your normal use but not your 950 mile trips that you do just twice a year.

So, you can't debate why Tesla has one charging their Tesla nine times just to drive 950 miles down a heavily trafficked Interstate highway. .You are the most brilliant person ever. You should take over Tesla as you are more aware of the Tesla's capability then all the engineers employed by Tesla. So, you think the "facts" that I get directly off Tesla's own website are "fake facts" but you know it all, more than even Tesla themselves?

Oh, and I also make around 4 or 5 shorter trips each year to visit my sisters in southern Arkansas. 287 miles each way. Lets see you get into a new Tesla Model X 75 D that costs $81,000 and drive directly from Springfield, MO. to Fordyce, AR. It's only 218 miles from my house to the Supercharger in Little Rock. Tesla says the Model X 75D standard range can't make it. Oh well, nothing like getting out and pushing your Tesla down the highway for 75 miles to the Supercharger when you run out of electrons on US65. I make the 600 mile roundtrip in my old Mercedes or my old C6 Z06 ICE and only have to make one 10 minute stop for gas.

Using Tesla's own website, they have me driving a Model X standard range from Springfield, MO to Perry Oklahoma(258 miles), then down I-35 to Dallas, TX(262 miles), then over to Texarkana, AR(179 miles) and then to Fordyce, AR(118 miles). 8 ******* stops to get charged at 8 ******* Superchargers. No ******* ****, you idiot. I would have to drive the stupid Tesla(according to Tesla themselves on their own ******* website) 817 miles because the ******* car can't make it 218 miles on a single charge driving directly down US65 from Springfield, MO to Little Rock, AR. So, instead of a 5 1/2 hour drive in my ICE, it takes two days in a Tesla. Brilliant. If the ******* Tesla has a range of 255 miles, then why can't it make it 218 miles between two Superchargers? Answer that one!!!!!!!!!!!

That is why 99% of the new cars being sold in the US are ICE's and why I see new gas stations being built and new pipelines being built to support all those new ICE vehicles being built and sold everyday.

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Old 06-20-2019, 02:44 PM
  #27  
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Porsche, Jag, Audi will have ALL Elect models by next year but unfortunately they are a boat load of money

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Old 06-20-2019, 03:41 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by ThePirate View Post
I give up trying to argue with an idiot who knows nothing about he is talking about re Teslas. All your BS above can be disproven by anyone who has owned a Tesla but I will not take as much time to do so as you did to "get" your "fake facts.," Regardless of the proof I could provide, you will disagree with it. Just go on thinking I have a long extension cord and I take 35 hours to charge my car. Glad at least you have the capacity to recognize that a Teslas would be ideal for your normal use but not your 950 mile trips that you do just twice a year.

damn, you sucked me in. Here's the charging from the Tesla website:

you say 10 charging stops, they say 5:
  • Springfield, MO, USA







  • Catoosa, OK

    25 min charge
  • Oklahoma City, OK

    50 min charge
  • Shamrock, TX

    30 min charge
  • Amarillo, TX

    45 min charge
  • Santa Rosa, NM

    65 min charge
  • Chama, NM 87520, USA
    Duration: 18 h (930 mi)

Est. Gas Savings $121
So 5 stops not 10. I'll just leave it there. You are full of **** when it comes to objectively debating anything Tesla.
Select the Model X 75D standard range, and you will see that I'm 100% correct. Now it you want to pay a hefty up front $10,000 MSRP premium to get a long range version of the Model X(that would take some 10-15 years to recoup in so called savings by buying electricity vs gasoline) then you can make it in less stops. But I don't have to pay that huge premium to be able to drive a $41,000 Lexus NX hybrid some 400 miles between fill ups on a road trip.

Let's see, in that 930 miles I stop and get gas twice at 10 minutes each(20 minutes total), and you stop 5 times for 3 hours total to get a charge while paying a mighty hefty premium in the cost of your $191,000 Tesla to get a little more range.. Brilliant!!!!!!! I would rather save $50,0000 and be able to only stop twice for gas in that 930 miles for a total of 20 minutes in a Lexus NX Hybrid.

Plus you still have to get some home owner in Chama to let you plug your long extension cord into their 110 volt electrical outlet to charge the Tesla in order to get back to the Supercharger in Santa Fe. The charging rate for a Tesla on 110 volts is 3 miles of range for each hour of charge, so it takes 35 hours to get enough charge to drive the 106 miles from Chama to Santa Fe.


With my ICE, I don't even have to take 10 minutes get gas in Chama, even though there are gas stations there.

Last edited by JoesC5; 06-20-2019 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:52 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GR8-LIFE View Post
Porsche, Jag, Audi will have ALL Elect models by next year but unfortunately they are a boat load of money
And you still have the problem of finding fast chargers for them. You can't use Tesla's Superchargers, so you are on your own.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:23 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
Select the Model X 75D standard range, and you will see that I'm 100% correct. Now it you want to pay a hefty up front $10,000 MSRP premium to get a long range version of the Model X(that would take some 10-15 years to recoup in so called savings by buying electricity vs gasoline) then you can make it in less stops. But I don't have to pay that huge premium to be able to drive a $41,000 Lexus NX hybrid some 400 miles between fill ups on a road trip.

Let's see, in that 930 miles I stop and get gas twice at 10 minutes each(20 minutes total), and you stop 5 times for 3 hours total to get a charge while paying a mighty hefty premium in the cost of your $191,000 Tesla to get a little more range.. Brilliant!!!!!!! I would rather save $50,0000 and be able to only stop twice for gas in that 930 miles for a total of 20 minutes in a Lexus NX Hybrid.

Plus you still have to get some home owner in Chama to let you plug your long extension cord into their 110 volt electrical outlet to charge the Tesla in order to get back to the Supercharger in Santa Fe. The charging rate for a Tesla on 110 volts is 3 miles of range for each hour of charge, so it takes 35 hours to get enough charge to drive the 106 miles from Chama to Santa Fe.


With my ICE, I don't even have to take 10 minutes get gas in Chama, even though there are gas stations there.
Damn. You're going off the deep end. You simply insist that everyone conform to your view of travel, your cars, ICE vs EVs, etc., etc., etc. Thank God that your opinions aren't the only ones available. You are simply an ******* who "knows" you are right and that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. The only problem is that you don't know what you don't know, whether it is about people or EV's. You have no credibility regarding being able to carry on an intelligent conversation about EV's. I simply say that we all know why you have to ride alone on your long mile trips. I pray that you don't bust a blood vessel. Let me know when you have learned the difference between the truth and your beliefs, and I will discuss it farther.

:beatdeadho rse:
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:35 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by GR8-LIFE View Post
Porsche, Jag, Audi will have ALL Elect models by next year but unfortunately they are a boat load of money
So will VW and others at much lower prices...the market is about to face an onslaught of new EVs.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:50 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
And you still have the problem of finding fast chargers for them. You can't use Tesla's Superchargers, so you are on your own.
2,000 fast chargers by Electrify America alone in 484 stations by the end of this month. And 30,000 chargers planned. As EVs begin to hit the numbers in much larger numbers (the onslaught from VW/Porsche/Audi and many other brands is just beginning), there will be a LOT more chargers out there. Heck they just added fast chargers at 120 Walmarts in 34 states.

No problem finding fast chargers in our area. Besides, you only need those on the occasional long trip. Most EV driving will be local and you can just charge at home.

Porsche has already said that batteries with 1/3 the weight and ranges of 600 miles are only 2-3 years away. As appealing as the first gen Taycan is...the second gen Taycan (already in the design stages) is going to be incredible. Both the next Macan (2022, all-electric) and the next gen Taycan will use Porsche's new Premium Platform Electric (a joint Audi-Porsche partnership).
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:53 AM
  #33  
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i cant wait for honda and toyota to get their ev act togther.id jump on that in a minute
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:36 PM
  #34  
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Minimod, if you do get a Tesla S, please do not get the duck face one. Get an older unit.

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Old 06-21-2019, 02:51 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
2,000 fast chargers by Electrify America alone in 484 stations by the end of this month. And 30,000 chargers planned. As EVs begin to hit the numbers in much larger numbers (the onslaught from VW/Porsche/Audi and many other brands is just beginning), there will be a LOT more chargers out there. Heck they just added fast chargers at 120 Walmarts in 34 states.

No problem finding fast chargers in our area. Besides, you only need those on the occasional long trip. Most EV driving will be local and you can just charge at home.

Porsche has already said that batteries with 1/3 the weight and ranges of 600 miles are only 2-3 years away. As appealing as the first gen Taycan is...the second gen Taycan (already in the design stages) is going to be incredible. Both the next Macan (2022, all-electric) and the next gen Taycan will use Porsche's new Premium Platform Electric (a joint Audi-Porsche partnership).
484 locations of their fast chargers for the EV vs over 100,000 locations to buy gasoline for the ICE's. Plus it still takes as much as 5-6 times the amount of time to charge to 100% your EV as it does to fill the tank of an ICE to 100%. Then you have to go hunting for one of those rare 484 locations, whereas there are 3 or 4 gas stations located on the next corner, with the dozen, or more, gas pumps being less than 100 feet from the street you are driving on.

Does the Walmart in Chama, NM have a fast charger for your EV? hell, they don't even have a Walmart in Chama, NM. The closest Walmart to Chama is the one in Pagosa Springs, CO. That's 53 miles of pushing your dead EV just to get a charge(with some serious mountains to cross). I wonder how many decades it will take for that particular Walmart to get their fast charger installed, so one can drive their EV to Chama to enjoy a nice vacation riding the old narrow gauge steam powered train?

If I remember correctly, back in 2015 your savior said that his Tesla would have a 600 mile range by 2017. Here it is, half way through 2019, and he gets **** for range. Want to extend the range of the Model X by 60 miles in 2019 , it will only cost you another $10,000 for a larger battery. What a ******* joke. The manufacturer of an ICE powered vehicle can get another 60 miles of range by increasing the size of it's gas tank by less than 2 gallons. That would probably cost around $6.37 in additional plastic.

That additional 60 miles of range for $10,000 doesn't mean you get 60 additional miles of range on the same amount of electricity used. All it means is that you can travel 60 additional miles before having to get a charge, and it will take additional time to charge the battery vs the shorter range model. With an ICE, it will take abut a minute of additional time to fill the 2 gallon larger gas tank. not 20 additional minutes required to charge the Tesla.

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Old 06-21-2019, 03:45 PM
  #36  
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I see Joe is still making his point that there are no EV chargers in places that nobody wants to visit. Party on, Joe!
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:11 PM
  #37  
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Would wait until quality issues are sorted out. I've been to a few Tesla parts suppliers and it was shockingly horrible.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:14 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by GR8-LIFE View Post
Porsche, Jag, Audi will have ALL Elect models by next year but unfortunately they are a boat load of money
That's no problem for Brandt. He's got boat loads of money. Sometimes I think he has ship loads of money.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:41 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Meh View Post
I see Joe is still making his point that there are no EV chargers in places that nobody wants to visit. Party on, Joe!
"Interior Secretary Ken Salazar Designates the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad a National Historic Landmark"

For something being in the middle of nowhere they attract over 40,000 passengers yearly to ride 64 miles on an old train. I'll take that train ride any day vs viewing a Kroger in Monterey, in a Tesla.

No Superchargers in Branson either, yet millions(7.2 million) of people visit Branson each year. Most of them arrive in their private cars, not on the top of a freight train from across the border, like in California. More people that visit Branson see a live performance by Clay Cooper, than watch you wash your wife's minivan in Monterey. And Clay has a Corvette. 56,000 theater seats(11,000 ore than on Broadway in New York). 18,000 lodging rooms plus anther 5,000 in surrounding area. 35,000 restaurant seats. How does that compare to Monterey, California(the center of you your universe)?

Better check out Yellowstone. No Superchargers there either, yet millions visit that old place each year, located in the middle of nowhere. More than visit an old cannery in Monterey. There is more to life then enjoying a fine fish dinner at Captain D's in your little hole in the wall location.

How about the Smokey Mountains(also located in the middle of nowhere). The number 1 visited National Park(Approximately the same number of visitors that visit 6 National Parks that are located in California) , I would rather drive the Blue Ridge Parkway in a Corvette than Hwy 101 through Salinas, near you, in a Tesla.

Tell me, how is the smell in San Francisco these days? I bet millions of tourists are enjoying walking around that city trying to miss the piles of **** all over the sidewalks. Instead of taking their kids on a beautiful train ride in the mountains north of Chama, NM , or watch ole faithful in Yellowstone, WY, they can let their kids play with used needles in San Francisco. I understand that there is no shortage of them in your neck of the woods.

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Old 06-21-2019, 05:18 PM
  #40  
AWOL
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Member Since: Jul 1999
Location: Missouri City, Texas
Posts: 388
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I have a Tesla S 85D but don't want to have to call JoesC5 an idiot so will not give any info other than to say i went from putting 3 or 4 hundred miles a month on my C7 to last month putting 10 miles on it
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