New Porsche GT2
07-18-2007, 10:02 PM
#81
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We need something verifiable and from a reputable source.
Wikipedia is a "best effort", unverified, anonymous user's contribution web site. Again, anyone can add any stuff there, or delete.
Is this "Automobil" a German magazine? Do they have a web site?
Did you read with your own eyes about this 7m42s record on the real magazine? I highly doubt that.
I am after the truth, nothing personal.
Wikipedia is a "best effort", unverified, anonymous user's contribution web site. Again, anyone can add any stuff there, or delete.
Is this "Automobil" a German magazine? Do they have a web site?
Did you read with your own eyes about this 7m42s record on the real magazine? I highly doubt that.
I am after the truth, nothing personal.
If Wikipedia lists a separate reference that they have no control over, it is an issue of the accuracy of the reference and not an issue about Wikipedia.
And yes I read the Automobil article. Yes it's in German. I read it on the web. No, I didn't actually hold the magazine in my hands...if you think that makes any difference. Or is a paper copy the only proof you accept?
As you probably know, I don't think performance numbers and lap times are the only litmus test when it comes to deciding on what sports car to buy. And even if they were, there is no valid way of determining these numbers based on a level playing field anyway. And in many cases we're only talking about tenths of a second difference.
Years ago I used to be hung up on "best" as it relates to sports cars. But over the years I found out that "best" is a personal decision, and not a term that can be applied the same to everyone when it comes to cars.
07-19-2007, 02:52 AM
#82
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If Wikipedia lists a separate reference that they have no control over, it is an issue of the accuracy of the reference and not an issue about Wikipedia.
And yes I read the Automobil article. Yes it's in German. I read it on the web. No, I didn't actually hold the magazine in my hands...if you think that makes any difference. Or is a paper copy the only proof you accept?
As you probably know, I don't think performance numbers and lap times are the only litmus test when it comes to deciding on what sports car to buy. And even if they were, there is no valid way of determining these numbers based on a level playing field anyway. And in many cases we're only talking about tenths of a second difference.
Years ago I used to be hung up on "best" as it relates to sports cars. But over the years I found out that "best" is a personal decision, and not a term that can be applied the same to everyone when it comes to cars.
And yes I read the Automobil article. Yes it's in German. I read it on the web. No, I didn't actually hold the magazine in my hands...if you think that makes any difference. Or is a paper copy the only proof you accept?
As you probably know, I don't think performance numbers and lap times are the only litmus test when it comes to deciding on what sports car to buy. And even if they were, there is no valid way of determining these numbers based on a level playing field anyway. And in many cases we're only talking about tenths of a second difference.
Years ago I used to be hung up on "best" as it relates to sports cars. But over the years I found out that "best" is a personal decision, and not a term that can be applied the same to everyone when it comes to cars.
But if one collects all the records and makes totals of the wins and the time differences then it may represent something. It is not exactly statistics, because the number of experiments is limited, but it means more. For example if all of the tests found the car X slower than Y, then it must be true.
As for the Automobil magazine, I am 100% there is no such German magazine that did a Porsche 997 GT3 test on Nordschleife.
Nobody on the web has a single true reference to it so I just do not believe it.
I found that true test/records always have multiple references (web article or paper scan, TV show video, etc). The C6 Z06 record (7:43) has 4 web references from independent sources
Let's close this discussion here and let's see if anybody can find a verifiable reference for the 997 GT3.
07-20-2007, 01:01 PM
#83
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It will be interesting to see if the MPSC tires for the C6Z are the same tires as the MPSC tires on the GT3. Porsche specifically engineers their tires with Michelin...hence the Porsche "N" rating on the tires for their cars...and the compounds and tread pattern/thickness will have to be compared between the two tires.
07-20-2007, 03:33 PM
#84
It will be interesting to see if the MPSC tires for the C6Z are the same tires as the MPSC tires on the GT3. Porsche specifically engineers their tires with Michelin...hence the Porsche "N" rating on the tires for their cars...and the compounds and tread pattern/thickness will have to be compared between the two tires.
They're not quite the same...
I won't go as far as saying the Porsche "N" spec MPSCs on the GT3/RS are bogus Cups, but they're not equal to regular MPSCs.
AFAIK, Porsche wanted the grooves on their N spec. version made bigger to improve on the standard Cup's poor wet weather performance... therefore, there's not as much meat on the ground as regular Cups.
The standard GT3/RS "R" tires aren't quite as superior to regular hi-perf tires as many think - probably somewhere in between hi-perf tires and regular MPSCs.
AFAIK, Porsche wanted the grooves on their N spec. version made bigger to improve on the standard Cup's poor wet weather performance... therefore, there's not as much meat on the ground as regular Cups.
The standard GT3/RS "R" tires aren't quite as superior to regular hi-perf tires as many think - probably somewhere in between hi-perf tires and regular MPSCs.
07-20-2007, 04:10 PM
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07-20-2007, 05:41 PM
#86
P.S. - There is also the new Toyo R888 coming out that's supposed to be good. The GT3 guys are looking forward to them as an alternative to the cups. Not sure if they'll offer them in the Z06's sizes, though.
Last edited by VY427; 07-20-2007 at 09:23 PM.
07-23-2007, 05:03 PM
#88
Melting Slicks
I do not think the GT3 is overpriced because it is completely ready to take to race track without doing anything. Brakes, tires, rollcage, bucket seats with harnesses, fire extinguisher are all already in the car while Z06 still needs some things to do this. But GT2 is expensive and would be difficult to buy instead of Ferrari F430 maybe.
Last edited by ALMS21; 07-23-2007 at 05:09 PM.
07-24-2007, 01:12 AM
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07-24-2007, 07:58 AM
#90
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Thanks
I suppose I should have compared it to the 997TT as the GT2 is not a NA car. Still, I can't see why somebosy would spend an additional $40-50K for an improved suspension, "unhooking" the AWD, and an improved suspension.
I think the car looks good (save hideous slats in rear bumper) and will certainly be a performer but I think when you are talking nearly $200 large, people are going to want something that sets the car apart from just looking (for the most part) like a 911 Turbo/GT3 and will sacrifice performance in favor of something more exotic.
I suppose I should have compared it to the 997TT as the GT2 is not a NA car. Still, I can't see why somebosy would spend an additional $40-50K for an improved suspension, "unhooking" the AWD, and an improved suspension.
I think the car looks good (save hideous slats in rear bumper) and will certainly be a performer but I think when you are talking nearly $200 large, people are going to want something that sets the car apart from just looking (for the most part) like a 911 Turbo/GT3 and will sacrifice performance in favor of something more exotic.
07-24-2007, 12:52 PM
#91
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As you know, sports cars are about more than just the performance numbers. If you have ever driven a 996 GT2 you know it presents the driving "experience" in a way that no other car in the Porsche line up does...excluding the CGT. It's just an incredible car to drive! I think this new 997 GT2 will far surpass the 996 GT2 in this respect, and it is never possible to place a monetary value on what this "experience" may mean to people...what it is "worth" to people. Overlay this concept on the fact that there will be so few GT2's built, and it it easy to see that Porsche will sell ever one of them without batting an eye.
07-30-2007, 09:29 PM
#93
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GT2 trailer and technical information from the Porsche web site...
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911gt2/canada.aspx
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911gt2/canada.aspx
07-31-2007, 03:03 PM
#94
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GT2 trailer and technical information from the Porsche web site...
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911gt2/canada.aspx
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911gt2/canada.aspx
As for the car, I maintain my position: ridiculously expensive, hideous wing.
