GT-R 7:38 is the real deal... here it is.
10-24-2007, 10:50 PM
#41
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The old ones were I-6s, which can sound great with a free breathing exhaust, unlike V-6s, which have never sounded good in a street car IMO. The old I-6s were also known for being able to rev incredibly high when modded to tremendous effect when coupled with boost.
Once people start cranking the boost on these GTRs, all talk of them being "not so hot" and the like as I've seen here to rather comical effect will be out the window, even when highway racing, which I thought was not considered "real" racing. Maybe it's only real racing if you think you can win in that case (i.e. a base C6 might be able to out roll race the GTR before being passed back on the very top end).
Once people start cranking the boost on these GTRs, all talk of them being "not so hot" and the like as I've seen here to rather comical effect will be out the window, even when highway racing, which I thought was not considered "real" racing. Maybe it's only real racing if you think you can win in that case (i.e. a base C6 might be able to out roll race the GTR before being passed back on the very top end).
10-25-2007, 06:22 AM
#42
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10-25-2007, 11:23 AM
#43
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I really dont see the GTR having more top end then the base C6... its 3800lbs and has to deal with AWD drivetrain loss... the GTR could respond very well to mods, but its not the same car as the old one and wont be able to hold the kind of boost the old iron block could..im content with my modded 6.0 considering im only 26, but I already have my C7 zo6 fund started.
The old ones were I-6s, which can sound great with a free breathing exhaust, unlike V-6s, which have never sounded good in a street car IMO. The old I-6s were also known for being able to rev incredibly high when modded to tremendous effect when coupled with boost.
Once people start cranking the boost on these GTRs, all talk of them being "not so hot" and the like as I've seen here to rather comical effect will be out the window, even when highway racing, which I thought was not considered "real" racing. Maybe it's only real racing if you think you can win in that case (i.e. a base C6 might be able to out roll race the GTR before being passed back on the very top end).
Once people start cranking the boost on these GTRs, all talk of them being "not so hot" and the like as I've seen here to rather comical effect will be out the window, even when highway racing, which I thought was not considered "real" racing. Maybe it's only real racing if you think you can win in that case (i.e. a base C6 might be able to out roll race the GTR before being passed back on the very top end).
10-25-2007, 12:33 PM
#44
Safety Car
I really dont see the GTR having more top end then the base C6... its 3800lbs and has to deal with AWD drivetrain loss... the GTR could respond very well to mods, but its not the same car as the old one and wont be able to hold the kind of boost the old iron block could..im content with my modded 6.0 considering im only 26, but I already have my C7 zo6 fund started.
I almost want to buy a stock Z06 of Viper just to be able to have a car to battle with in stock form.
10-25-2007, 01:18 PM
#45
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Hi guys, I just wanted to clear up this lap time issue. What Nissan did is a perfectly valid lap.
Sport Auto does this lap as well
Note that they use the 20.6km track. So even if you don't agree with the method you can still use Nissan's time to compare with times sport auto has done.
Pagani recently announced that they broke Carrera GT's record with the Zonda F. Their press release states that they used the 20.6 km track. This means that for their claim to be valid Porsche must have used the 20.6 km track as well.
Radical also used this to claim their record lap of 6:55 with the SR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtyZosuPNE
If you note the start point which is around 0:22, by the time 6:55 has elapsed which is around 07:16, this is exactly the finish point in the Nissan's video.
While I agree that the state of the car, type of tires is questionable and that there needs to be an independent lap from sport auto for example, the lap in the video itself if perfectly OK.
Hope that helps.
Sport Auto does this lap as well
Note that they use the 20.6km track. So even if you don't agree with the method you can still use Nissan's time to compare with times sport auto has done.
Pagani recently announced that they broke Carrera GT's record with the Zonda F. Their press release states that they used the 20.6 km track. This means that for their claim to be valid Porsche must have used the 20.6 km track as well.
The Pagani Zonda F Clubsport carries the spirit of Fangio and it was a natural choice to celebrate the champion at the Nordschleife. At 7:28pm, with 10 C on the diabolical circuit of 20,6 km and 73 corners, the Zonda F crossed the finish line posting a time of 7:27:82, setting a new record for production supercars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtyZosuPNE
If you note the start point which is around 0:22, by the time 6:55 has elapsed which is around 07:16, this is exactly the finish point in the Nissan's video.
While I agree that the state of the car, type of tires is questionable and that there needs to be an independent lap from sport auto for example, the lap in the video itself if perfectly OK.
Hope that helps.
10-25-2007, 01:26 PM
#46
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If you put this much effort into anything, your going meet your goal. A really good driver... going ***** out on the ring is going to post a fast time.. they were also at this for awhile doing excessive testing at the ring. Not only do you have the AWD advantage... but also the left foot braking advantage. The car can be driven in a way, with its automatic transmission to where you brake boost etc... similiar to the way the autox AWD champs drive their evos... no gear switching at all, with left foot braking.
10-25-2007, 02:37 PM
#47
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If you put this much effort into anything, your going meet your goal. A really good driver... going ***** out on the ring is going to post a fast time.. they were also at this for awhile doing excessive testing at the ring. Not only do you have the AWD advantage... but also the left foot braking advantage. The car can be driven in a way, with its automatic transmission to where you brake boost etc... similiar to the way the autox AWD champs drive their evos... no gear switching at all, with left foot braking.
10-25-2007, 02:40 PM
#48
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Hi guys, I just wanted to clear up this lap time issue. What Nissan did is a perfectly valid lap.
Sport Auto does this lap as well
Note that they use the 20.6km track. So even if you don't agree with the method you can still use Nissan's time to compare with times sport auto has done.
Pagani recently announced that they broke Carrera GT's record with the Zonda F. Their press release states that they used the 20.6 km track. This means that for their claim to be valid Porsche must have used the 20.6 km track as well.
Radical also used this to claim their record lap of 6:55 with the SR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtyZosuPNE
If you note the start point which is around 0:22, by the time 6:55 has elapsed which is around 07:16, this is exactly the finish point in the Nissan's video.
While I agree that the state of the car, type of tires is questionable and that there needs to be an independent lap from sport auto for example, the lap in the video itself if perfectly OK.
Hope that helps.
Sport Auto does this lap as well
Note that they use the 20.6km track. So even if you don't agree with the method you can still use Nissan's time to compare with times sport auto has done.
Pagani recently announced that they broke Carrera GT's record with the Zonda F. Their press release states that they used the 20.6 km track. This means that for their claim to be valid Porsche must have used the 20.6 km track as well.
Radical also used this to claim their record lap of 6:55 with the SR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtyZosuPNE
If you note the start point which is around 0:22, by the time 6:55 has elapsed which is around 07:16, this is exactly the finish point in the Nissan's video.
While I agree that the state of the car, type of tires is questionable and that there needs to be an independent lap from sport auto for example, the lap in the video itself if perfectly OK.
Hope that helps.
10-25-2007, 02:55 PM
#49
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exactly.. its called ZR1.. next year 
the ZR1 was already faster around Laguna Seca from a dead stop on its 1st lap then the GTR could muster in a whole day of testing 
the ZR1 was already faster around Laguna Seca from a dead stop on its 1st lap then the GTR could muster in a whole day of testing So whats you point, you gave in, advtange GTR right, it doesnt matter how you do it, its the overall car that is matched up and in this test and this test alone(since we only have this info for now), it has slaughtered the Z06, no big deal, you and the Z06 crowd(me included) will live another day..its not the end of the world..if using extensive testing and superior technology they gave us a pig that can out run a horse then so be it..
10-25-2007, 02:59 PM
#50
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10-25-2007, 03:04 PM
#51
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So whats you point, you gave in, advtange GTR right, it doesnt matter how you do it, its the overall car that is matched up and in this test and this test alone(since we only have this info for now), it has slaughtered the Z06, no big deal, you and the Z06 crowd(me included) will live another day..its not the end of the world..if using extensive testing and superior technology they gave us a pig that can out run a horse then so be it..
No, the problem is that it's not an accurate representation of the two cars capabilities for any number of reasons.
Do you honestly beleive the GT-R is overall a faster circuit car than a Z06????
Anyone can be beat, but being a faster car is a whole different story.
The truth will come out when they are tested in neutral hands.
10-25-2007, 03:11 PM
#52
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No, the problem is that it's not an accurate representation of the two cars capabilities for any number of reasons.
Do you honestly beleive the GT-R is overall a faster circuit car than a Z06????
Anyone can be beat, but being a faster car is a whole different story.
The truth will come out when they are tested in neutral hands.
Do you honestly beleive the GT-R is overall a faster circuit car than a Z06????
Anyone can be beat, but being a faster car is a whole different story.
The truth will come out when they are tested in neutral hands.
If its tested in neutral hands, and still comes out ahead, then would you say its a better track car?
10-25-2007, 03:14 PM
#53
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So then they will have GTR Evo spec or may be Z-Tune. Whats you point, who cares its a different animal
10-25-2007, 03:27 PM
#54
Dang, I'm surprised at how quick this got around the internet.
In any event, I have updated my vide's "info box" to include the debate over whether or not Nissan was "cheating" and whether or not other carmakers use the full lap instead of the 20.6km.
I've read that GM and Porsche times the 20.8km instead of the 20.6km, but they have not videotaped that run and/or they are not releasing it to the public. So with no hard evidence to back up the 20.8km claims, it's still a point of contention.
However, if Nissan showed this video to a room full of hundreds of reporters and other industry insiders at the Tokyo Motor Show, then it is plausible to conclude that this is a conventional and accepted method of timing a nordschleife lap. Otherwise GM and Porsche would be bursting at the seams and screaming "cheater" at Nissan. So far that has not happened.
In any event, I have updated my vide's "info box" to include the debate over whether or not Nissan was "cheating" and whether or not other carmakers use the full lap instead of the 20.6km.
I've read that GM and Porsche times the 20.8km instead of the 20.6km, but they have not videotaped that run and/or they are not releasing it to the public. So with no hard evidence to back up the 20.8km claims, it's still a point of contention.
However, if Nissan showed this video to a room full of hundreds of reporters and other industry insiders at the Tokyo Motor Show, then it is plausible to conclude that this is a conventional and accepted method of timing a nordschleife lap. Otherwise GM and Porsche would be bursting at the seams and screaming "cheater" at Nissan. So far that has not happened.
10-25-2007, 03:53 PM
#55
Safety Car
The only ideal way for the cars to be tested is to take ALMS drivers and put in 2 of each (GT3, Vette, Viper, TT,GT-R) leave them showroom stock, and qualify as for a race. This is by far the best measure, but we cant do that. So we are left with taking mag times and compiling them to see who wins the most.
"If" the GT-R can win at most circuits, then I'll concede, it "may" be a better one, but the weight and number of gadgets alone makes it defficient as a track car. No track guys want a car that does ALL the work for them, and that is what Nissan is attempting to do. Not only that but a better track car is one that you can take to the track and work on yourself. the GT-R's, good luck with that in a GT-R.
10-25-2007, 04:04 PM
#56
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so we have to compare a brand new released platform to a model thats been out a few years and hasnt changed? The ZR1 is clearly a testing of new technologies that will be standard in the C7 z06.. and maybe even added to the current zo6 in a year or two.
10-26-2007, 01:09 PM
#57
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The truth comes out... the GTR was on "cut slicks" pulling over 2gs. So according to the Nissan Fanboys, this is stock? In that case I guess we should count that 10sec 1/4 Z06 time for stock trim as well I knew something didnt add up with weight vs power.
HONED AT THE 'RING
GTR chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno told PistonHeads that his baby had covered over 3000 miles at the Nordschleife and avoided other circuits as they were deemed 'too easy'.
Nissan's original target was to beat the 911 Turbo at the 'ring but they ended up worrying the Porsche Carrera GT.
They didn't beat the GT's 7min 32sec lap time, but got a 7.38 in semi-wet conditions.
'We used cut slick tyres' said Mizuno.
'I was not interested in full slick times as this bears no resemblance to a road tyre. 1.2G of force was being pulled in wet and over 2 in dry'
I knew something didnt add up with weight vs power.HONED AT THE 'RING
GTR chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno told PistonHeads that his baby had covered over 3000 miles at the Nordschleife and avoided other circuits as they were deemed 'too easy'.
Nissan's original target was to beat the 911 Turbo at the 'ring but they ended up worrying the Porsche Carrera GT.
They didn't beat the GT's 7min 32sec lap time, but got a 7.38 in semi-wet conditions.
'We used cut slick tyres' said Mizuno.
'I was not interested in full slick times as this bears no resemblance to a road tyre. 1.2G of force was being pulled in wet and over 2 in dry'
10-26-2007, 01:15 PM
#58
Safety Car
The truth comes out... the GTR was on "cut slicks" pulling over 2gs. So according to the Nissan Fanboys, this is stock? In that case I guess we should count that 10sec 1/4 Z06 time for stock trim as well I knew something didnt add up with weight vs power.
HONED AT THE 'RING
GTR chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno told PistonHeads that his baby had covered over 3000 miles at the Nordschleife and avoided other circuits as they were deemed 'too easy'.
Nissan's original target was to beat the 911 Turbo at the 'ring but they ended up worrying the Porsche Carrera GT.
They didn't beat the GT's 7min 32sec lap time, but got a 7.38 in semi-wet conditions.
'We used cut slick tyres' said Mizuno.
'I was not interested in full slick times as this bears no resemblance to a road tyre. 1.2G of force was being pulled in wet and over 2 in dry'
I knew something didnt add up with weight vs power.HONED AT THE 'RING
GTR chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno told PistonHeads that his baby had covered over 3000 miles at the Nordschleife and avoided other circuits as they were deemed 'too easy'.
Nissan's original target was to beat the 911 Turbo at the 'ring but they ended up worrying the Porsche Carrera GT.
They didn't beat the GT's 7min 32sec lap time, but got a 7.38 in semi-wet conditions.
'We used cut slick tyres' said Mizuno.
'I was not interested in full slick times as this bears no resemblance to a road tyre. 1.2G of force was being pulled in wet and over 2 in dry'
10-26-2007, 01:17 PM
#59
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10-26-2007, 01:21 PM
#60
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