2009 Nissan GT-R U.S. pricing announced at $69,850
12-06-2007, 07:50 AM
#241
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These comparisons are based on Stock vs. stock and the projections known to date:
I agree with heavychevy and monaroCountry on the acceleration, the GT-R will be tough to beat from a stop but from a roll I expect it to be a tight race with a base C6. If it turns out to be true that the GT-R can trap 119 then it will hold a very slight advantage over the C6 from a roll as long as the boost and RPM are right at the hit. As for the Z06, the GT-R will have no chance at all against a Z06 from any kind of a roll, no way no how. Same thing will apply from a stop against the Z06, if the GT-R owner is dumb enough to keep going anything past a quarter mile, assuming it was behind at the start after losing traction, the Z06 will be blowing by bigtime.
On a track things are different. The GT-R might have the ability to go toe to toe with a Z06 by virtue of superior cornering, both entry and exit speeds as well as overall corner average speed, but this will be at the expence of it eating up its tires. What it gains on the corners it will lose on the straights if the straights are long enough, making it a wash with the Z06 on most tracks. Again, this is stock to stock. The ability for the GT-R to precisely and accurately shift and then use its power will also help it on the track, as it can play with gears while the Z06 owner will tend to leave the car in a gear and play the one gear through some turns. Popping into a lower gear with a Z06 in a turn can mean the end slides out and you lose control and possibly crash, but the AWD GT-R can lay that power down controllably. This will aid it by allowing it to make better use of its power. It has a worse PEAK power to weight ratio, but not if it is playing against a Z06 that is puling off a higher gear through a corner. It can end up at many moments with a better power to weight ratio.
But, as has been said above, we will see once independent testing is done.
I agree with heavychevy and monaroCountry on the acceleration, the GT-R will be tough to beat from a stop but from a roll I expect it to be a tight race with a base C6. If it turns out to be true that the GT-R can trap 119 then it will hold a very slight advantage over the C6 from a roll as long as the boost and RPM are right at the hit. As for the Z06, the GT-R will have no chance at all against a Z06 from any kind of a roll, no way no how. Same thing will apply from a stop against the Z06, if the GT-R owner is dumb enough to keep going anything past a quarter mile, assuming it was behind at the start after losing traction, the Z06 will be blowing by bigtime.
On a track things are different. The GT-R might have the ability to go toe to toe with a Z06 by virtue of superior cornering, both entry and exit speeds as well as overall corner average speed, but this will be at the expence of it eating up its tires. What it gains on the corners it will lose on the straights if the straights are long enough, making it a wash with the Z06 on most tracks. Again, this is stock to stock. The ability for the GT-R to precisely and accurately shift and then use its power will also help it on the track, as it can play with gears while the Z06 owner will tend to leave the car in a gear and play the one gear through some turns. Popping into a lower gear with a Z06 in a turn can mean the end slides out and you lose control and possibly crash, but the AWD GT-R can lay that power down controllably. This will aid it by allowing it to make better use of its power. It has a worse PEAK power to weight ratio, but not if it is playing against a Z06 that is puling off a higher gear through a corner. It can end up at many moments with a better power to weight ratio.
But, as has been said above, we will see once independent testing is done.
12-06-2007, 08:34 AM
#242
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Please provide us links that say this? I have read everything about the car and the STOCK Production tested version was RE070 runflats were used. And the pictures of the car show the tire and tireracks pictures match it.
12-06-2007, 08:36 AM
#243
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Wow always someone to make a excuse to make the Vette look better. lol.
It spent a year in the wind tunnel, doubt the Vette even spent 1 hour.
It spent a year in the wind tunnel, doubt the Vette even spent 1 hour.
I think a lot of people read too much into the Cd. Cd by itself tells you something about drag but not everything. Remember that Cd applies to shapes regardless of size. There are some subtle differences for very small objects but these can be ignored for car-size shapes. A bus-size vehicle with the same shape as a Corvette would have the same Cd in either case, but obviously the bus-size vehicle would have far more aerodynamic drag. The missing ingredient is effective frontal area. This is basically the projected frontal area times the Cd and some scale factors. The effective frontal area is what counts. This can allow a small car with a higher Cd than a larger car with a lower Cd to actually have less drag. It all depends on the effective frontal area. Some manufacturers are starting to quote effective frontal area.
12-06-2007, 08:38 AM
#244
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There was a japanese printout of a magazine that showed the different models. One was the Vspec and it showed around 530 hp.
12-06-2007, 09:01 AM
#245
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These comparisons are based on Stock vs. stock and the projections known to date:
I agree with heavychevy and monaroCountry on the acceleration, the GT-R will be tough to beat from a stop but from a roll I expect it to be a tight race with a base C6. If it turns out to be true that the GT-R can trap 119 then it will hold a very slight advantage over the C6 from a roll as long as the boost and RPM are right at the hit. As for the Z06, the GT-R will have no chance at all against a Z06 from any kind of a roll, no way no how. Same thing will apply from a stop against the Z06, if the GT-R owner is dumb enough to keep going anything past a quarter mile, assuming it was behind at the start after losing traction, the Z06 will be blowing by bigtime.
On a track things are different. The GT-R might have the ability to go toe to toe with a Z06 by virtue of superior cornering, both entry and exit speeds as well as overall corner average speed, but this will be at the expence of it eating up its tires. What it gains on the corners it will lose on the straights if the straights are long enough, making it a wash with the Z06 on most tracks. Again, this is stock to stock. The ability for the GT-R to precisely and accurately shift and then use its power will also help it on the track, as it can play with gears while the Z06 owner will tend to leave the car in a gear and play the one gear through some turns. Popping into a lower gear with a Z06 in a turn can mean the end slides out and you lose control and possibly crash, but the AWD GT-R can lay that power down controllably. This will aid it by allowing it to make better use of its power. It has a worse PEAK power to weight ratio, but not if it is playing against a Z06 that is puling off a higher gear through a corner. It can end up at many moments with a better power to weight ratio.
But, as has been said above, we will see once independent testing is done.
I agree with heavychevy and monaroCountry on the acceleration, the GT-R will be tough to beat from a stop but from a roll I expect it to be a tight race with a base C6. If it turns out to be true that the GT-R can trap 119 then it will hold a very slight advantage over the C6 from a roll as long as the boost and RPM are right at the hit. As for the Z06, the GT-R will have no chance at all against a Z06 from any kind of a roll, no way no how. Same thing will apply from a stop against the Z06, if the GT-R owner is dumb enough to keep going anything past a quarter mile, assuming it was behind at the start after losing traction, the Z06 will be blowing by bigtime.
On a track things are different. The GT-R might have the ability to go toe to toe with a Z06 by virtue of superior cornering, both entry and exit speeds as well as overall corner average speed, but this will be at the expence of it eating up its tires. What it gains on the corners it will lose on the straights if the straights are long enough, making it a wash with the Z06 on most tracks. Again, this is stock to stock. The ability for the GT-R to precisely and accurately shift and then use its power will also help it on the track, as it can play with gears while the Z06 owner will tend to leave the car in a gear and play the one gear through some turns. Popping into a lower gear with a Z06 in a turn can mean the end slides out and you lose control and possibly crash, but the AWD GT-R can lay that power down controllably. This will aid it by allowing it to make better use of its power. It has a worse PEAK power to weight ratio, but not if it is playing against a Z06 that is puling off a higher gear through a corner. It can end up at many moments with a better power to weight ratio.
But, as has been said above, we will see once independent testing is done.
Just look at all the records C6 Z06 has done on famous race tracks around the world. It doesn't look challenged at all in the corners as you suggest...
Also I don't understand why do you think that the GTR will have "superior cornering". It is very heavy, that does not work well with cornering. Do not confuse the AWD advantage to dig out of a tight corner (traction grip) with cornering at very high speed (lateral grip).
Obviously I did not drive the new GTR on the track, but I drove my Audi S4. Less weight that the GTR, AWD as the GTR. It digs out a tight corner faster than my C6 Z06, but has no chance to go faster through all the other corners of the track, because is heavy, has less rubber and has narrower tracks. All these disadvantages apply to the GTR.
On a big race track like Road Atlanta or Sebring the GTR would loose. On a small and tight one like Tsukuba the GTR would win.
All these are on a dry track of course. If it is wet all bets are on the AWD cars.
Last edited by TeddyFreddy; 12-06-2007 at 09:03 AM.
12-06-2007, 09:10 AM
#246
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On manual cars I agree. You definitely need to shift before taking the Apex of a turn or your tail will get loose if you do it while entering the apex. But on the GT-R you can downshift in a TURN and not worry about the tail or the car becoming unstable due to it's flawless smooth downshifting. So advantage GT-R in this case.
Audi has a out dated Quattro system that doesn't even work near the way the Altessa system from Nissan or SH-AWD from Honda. These two systems put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose. It allows the car to make turns much better than a normal awd car or a rwd car.
Audi has a out dated Quattro system that doesn't even work near the way the Altessa system from Nissan or SH-AWD from Honda. These two systems put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose. It allows the car to make turns much better than a normal awd car or a rwd car.
The GR6 DCT is indeed an advantage on a road racing track. Fast shifts help. But I don't understand why do you think that the Z06 driver will down shift while cornering "Popping into a lower gear with a Z06 in a turn"?? Any average driver, including me, down shifts before the corner and then applies more power after the apex.
Just look at all the records C6 Z06 has done on famous race tracks around the world. It doesn't look challenged at all in the corners as you suggest...
Also I don't understand why do you think that the GTR will have "superior cornering". It is very heavy, that does not work well with cornering. Do not confuse the AWD advantage to dig out of a tight corner (traction grip) with cornering at very high speed (lateral grip).
Obviously I did not drive the new GTR on the track, but I drove my Audi S4. Less weight that the GTR, AWD as the GTR. It digs out a tight corner faster than my C6 Z06, but has no chance to go faster through all the other corners of the track, because is heavy, has less rubber and has narrower tracks. All these disadvantages apply to the GTR.
On a big race track like Road Atlanta or Sebring the GTR would loose. On a small and tight one like Tsukuba the GTR would win.
All these are on a dry track of course. If it is wet all bets are on the AWD cars.
Just look at all the records C6 Z06 has done on famous race tracks around the world. It doesn't look challenged at all in the corners as you suggest...
Also I don't understand why do you think that the GTR will have "superior cornering". It is very heavy, that does not work well with cornering. Do not confuse the AWD advantage to dig out of a tight corner (traction grip) with cornering at very high speed (lateral grip).
Obviously I did not drive the new GTR on the track, but I drove my Audi S4. Less weight that the GTR, AWD as the GTR. It digs out a tight corner faster than my C6 Z06, but has no chance to go faster through all the other corners of the track, because is heavy, has less rubber and has narrower tracks. All these disadvantages apply to the GTR.
On a big race track like Road Atlanta or Sebring the GTR would loose. On a small and tight one like Tsukuba the GTR would win.
All these are on a dry track of course. If it is wet all bets are on the AWD cars.
12-06-2007, 10:03 AM
#247
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On manual cars I agree. You definitely need to shift before taking the Apex of a turn or your tail will get loose if you do it while entering the apex. But on the GT-R you can downshift in a TURN and not worry about the tail or the car becoming unstable due to it's flawless smooth downshifting. So advantage GT-R in this case.
Audi has a out dated Quattro system that doesn't even work near the way the Altessa system from Nissan or SH-AWD from Honda. These two systems put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose. It allows the car to make turns much better than a normal awd car or a rwd car.
Audi has a out dated Quattro system that doesn't even work near the way the Altessa system from Nissan or SH-AWD from Honda. These two systems put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose. It allows the car to make turns much better than a normal awd car or a rwd car.
This is from Nissan, from their GTR site, no shifting during cornering:
Read some more about Quattro, it is a Torsen based system, instant torque distribution, all mechanical. It is heavy and expensive, but not outdated.
GTR has the ATTESA E-TS AWD, not Altessa. What you are describing ("put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose") is nothing new. Any Limited Slip Differential does that, including the one in the Z06.
Again, the AWD is an advantage in very slow and tight corners, like a hair-pin (traction grip, dig out required). But it does not help in all the larger radius corners (majority in any serious track), like a sweeper (lateral grip required). Z06 will go faster than GTR through the high speed corners because is lighter, has more rubber and wider tracks. You have to be in a C6 Z06 with Hoosier tires for some fast cornering to understand.
Last edited by TeddyFreddy; 12-06-2007 at 10:06 AM.
12-06-2007, 10:51 AM
#248
Safety Car
The car will have similar power levels as the base model, just more focused on weight loss and handling.
12-06-2007, 11:37 AM
#249
Safety Car
And we all know good and well what the Japanese can do with specially designed tires. Look at the HKS Time Attack car that came here and murdered the Super Lap Battle because they have "special" Advans (which are still labeled A048's) that blistered after 3 laps, tires no one in the US could get.
These comparisons are based on Stock vs. stock and the projections known to date:
I agree with heavychevy and monaroCountry on the acceleration, the GT-R will be tough to beat from a stop but from a roll I expect it to be a tight race with a base C6. If it turns out to be true that the GT-R can trap 119 then it will hold a very slight advantage over the C6 from a roll as long as the boost and RPM are right at the hit. As for the Z06, the GT-R will have no chance at all against a Z06 from any kind of a roll, no way no how. Same thing will apply from a stop against the Z06, if the GT-R owner is dumb enough to keep going anything past a quarter mile, assuming it was behind at the start after losing traction, the Z06 will be blowing by bigtime.
On a track things are different. The GT-R might have the ability to go toe to toe with a Z06 by virtue of superior cornering, both entry and exit speeds as well as overall corner average speed, but this will be at the expence of it eating up its tires. What it gains on the corners it will lose on the straights if the straights are long enough, making it a wash with the Z06 on most tracks. Again, this is stock to stock. The ability for the GT-R to precisely and accurately shift and then use its power will also help it on the track, as it can play with gears while the Z06 owner will tend to leave the car in a gear and play the one gear through some turns. Popping into a lower gear with a Z06 in a turn can mean the end slides out and you lose control and possibly crash, but the AWD GT-R can lay that power down controllably. This will aid it by allowing it to make better use of its power. It has a worse PEAK power to weight ratio, but not if it is playing against a Z06 that is puling off a higher gear through a corner. It can end up at many moments with a better power to weight ratio.
But, as has been said above, we will see once independent testing is done.
I agree with heavychevy and monaroCountry on the acceleration, the GT-R will be tough to beat from a stop but from a roll I expect it to be a tight race with a base C6. If it turns out to be true that the GT-R can trap 119 then it will hold a very slight advantage over the C6 from a roll as long as the boost and RPM are right at the hit. As for the Z06, the GT-R will have no chance at all against a Z06 from any kind of a roll, no way no how. Same thing will apply from a stop against the Z06, if the GT-R owner is dumb enough to keep going anything past a quarter mile, assuming it was behind at the start after losing traction, the Z06 will be blowing by bigtime.
On a track things are different. The GT-R might have the ability to go toe to toe with a Z06 by virtue of superior cornering, both entry and exit speeds as well as overall corner average speed, but this will be at the expence of it eating up its tires. What it gains on the corners it will lose on the straights if the straights are long enough, making it a wash with the Z06 on most tracks. Again, this is stock to stock. The ability for the GT-R to precisely and accurately shift and then use its power will also help it on the track, as it can play with gears while the Z06 owner will tend to leave the car in a gear and play the one gear through some turns. Popping into a lower gear with a Z06 in a turn can mean the end slides out and you lose control and possibly crash, but the AWD GT-R can lay that power down controllably. This will aid it by allowing it to make better use of its power. It has a worse PEAK power to weight ratio, but not if it is playing against a Z06 that is puling off a higher gear through a corner. It can end up at many moments with a better power to weight ratio.
But, as has been said above, we will see once independent testing is done.
On manual cars I agree. You definitely need to shift before taking the Apex of a turn or your tail will get loose if you do it while entering the apex. But on the GT-R you can downshift in a TURN and not worry about the tail or the car becoming unstable due to it's flawless smooth downshifting. So advantage GT-R in this case.
Audi has a out dated Quattro system that doesn't even work near the way the Altessa system from Nissan or SH-AWD from Honda. These two systems put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose. It allows the car to make turns much better than a normal awd car or a rwd car.
Audi has a out dated Quattro system that doesn't even work near the way the Altessa system from Nissan or SH-AWD from Honda. These two systems put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose. It allows the car to make turns much better than a normal awd car or a rwd car.
Have you watched F1? They dont shift while taking turns, the are in gear before turn in and putting the power down right before apex just like everyone else. Then they start shifting.
Stop making up
12-06-2007, 12:06 PM
#250
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I am not saying you should do it, but it is completely doable with the setup the GT-R has. I wouldn't do it in a normal auto or a manual car because you will break the tires loose. But being able to come out in a better gear of a turn than not shifting is the best way to do it. If you shift out of a apex, you risk a chance of loosing control of the car if it's rwd with a manual.
It is out dated. This is why VW/Audi just copied Honda in their AWD system to make theirs act like the Hondas. I owned a Audi with Quattro and also owned the RL. Both cars act completely different with me liking the RL better.
LSD does not work this way sir. You got a lot to learn. LSD keeps both tires in the back with power, if one slips, it gives the other tire more power. In ANY TURN with the SH-AWD system, it puts MORE POWER AND MORE SPEED to that one wheel which causes the car to turn sharper, but also faster.
Here is a good video to educate you on the SH-AWD system.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m52sYTKvN4Q
It is out dated. This is why VW/Audi just copied Honda in their AWD system to make theirs act like the Hondas. I owned a Audi with Quattro and also owned the RL. Both cars act completely different with me liking the RL better.
LSD does not work this way sir. You got a lot to learn. LSD keeps both tires in the back with power, if one slips, it gives the other tire more power. In ANY TURN with the SH-AWD system, it puts MORE POWER AND MORE SPEED to that one wheel which causes the car to turn sharper, but also faster.
Here is a good video to educate you on the SH-AWD system.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m52sYTKvN4Q
Good luck downshifting in a turn while cornering and being at the limit of lateral grip in ANY car, with ANY transmission. Plus there is no reason to do that, down shifting during cornering has no advantage.
This is from Nissan, from their GTR site, no shifting during cornering:
Read some more about Quattro, it is a Torsen based system, instant torque distribution, all mechanical. It is heavy and expensive, but not outdated.
GTR has the ATTESA E-TS AWD, not Altessa. What you are describing ("put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose") is nothing new. Any Limited Slip Differential does that, including the one in the Z06.
Again, the AWD is an advantage in very slow and tight corners, like a hair-pin (traction grip, dig out required). But it does not help in all the larger radius corners (majority in any serious track), like a sweeper (lateral grip required). Z06 will go faster than GTR through the high speed corners because is lighter, has more rubber and wider tracks. You have to be in a C6 Z06 with Hoosier tires for some fast cornering to understand.
This is from Nissan, from their GTR site, no shifting during cornering:
Read some more about Quattro, it is a Torsen based system, instant torque distribution, all mechanical. It is heavy and expensive, but not outdated.
GTR has the ATTESA E-TS AWD, not Altessa. What you are describing ("put the power tot he outer wheel in a turn to push the car through the turn faster without getting the car loose") is nothing new. Any Limited Slip Differential does that, including the one in the Z06.
Again, the AWD is an advantage in very slow and tight corners, like a hair-pin (traction grip, dig out required). But it does not help in all the larger radius corners (majority in any serious track), like a sweeper (lateral grip required). Z06 will go faster than GTR through the high speed corners because is lighter, has more rubber and wider tracks. You have to be in a C6 Z06 with Hoosier tires for some fast cornering to understand.
12-06-2007, 12:10 PM
#251
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It says it on the official Nissan GT-R site. The RE070's are Specially designed for the GT-R.
And we all know good and well what the Japanese can do with specially designed tires. Look at the HKS Time Attack car that came here and murdered the Super Lap Battle because they have "special" Advans (which are still labeled A048's) that blistered after 3 laps, tires no one in the US could get.
That's a great assessment, which all goes out the window when the Z06 gets a better set of tires.
You dont shift while taking a turn dude, what track have you been on? That is rediculous!!!!! If you are shifting while taking a turn you turned in in the wrong gear.
Have you watched F1? They dont shift while taking turns, the are in gear before turn in and putting the power down right before apex just like everyone else. Then they start shifting.
Stop making up
And we all know good and well what the Japanese can do with specially designed tires. Look at the HKS Time Attack car that came here and murdered the Super Lap Battle because they have "special" Advans (which are still labeled A048's) that blistered after 3 laps, tires no one in the US could get.
That's a great assessment, which all goes out the window when the Z06 gets a better set of tires.
You dont shift while taking a turn dude, what track have you been on? That is rediculous!!!!! If you are shifting while taking a turn you turned in in the wrong gear.
Have you watched F1? They dont shift while taking turns, the are in gear before turn in and putting the power down right before apex just like everyone else. Then they start shifting.
Stop making up
Contact MSR. I am a instructor there. Right you DON'T downshift in a turn, but the GT-R allows you to downshift more safely especially when you come out of a turn so you don't have to bog the car or without loosing the tail end of a RWD car.
Obviously you have never done a Late Apex.
12-06-2007, 12:17 PM
#252
Team Owner
Thats it..I am locking every GTR thread on this board 
This is ridiculous....every thread is like this...I am done
This is ridiculous....every thread is like this...I am done
