downsyndrome

You're too dependent on biased opinion, only digesting what you want to hear. Impartial consumer reports is public information, a tool for you to use.

Dave68

Consumer Reports is the BEST source of reliability data when it comes to 5 years of ownership. Take a look at any of their April annual auto issues. Toyota on average has an incredible record, far surpassing any American car company. That's not going to change any time soon.

No one will win an argument that sides with GM being the more reliable brand.

PeterK

Is there a particular outlet of reliability information that you would recommend?

So, far my personal experiences are corroborated by CS ratings, so I don't see a reason not to trust them.

FaSSt67

Toyota could have a slight edge on GM, im not callng toyota junk and bashing them like you are with GM. I however worked in a auto shop where I see 30-40 cars a day and in my personal opinion, most new cars seem to be pretty close in quality and reliability. Feel free to bash me all you want for my opinion. I dont base my opinion on magazines, just my own observations.

BTW, anyone who thinks consumer reports is a good magazine for information on cars is a jackass.

Dave68

On the contrary, anyone who does NOT believe CR when it comes to reliability is ignorant. They send out a questionaire every year to thousands upon thousands of people. All reliability data is compiled based upon these completed qustionairs.

You are right in that most BRAND NEW cars are close in reliability. It's the three year-old vehicles that are so different. Ask any GM owner if his or her car was completely trouble-free for the first 3-5 years. Now ask a Honda or Toyota owner.

Again, if a brand new car isn't reliable for 6 months, the manufacturer will be out of business in short order.

downsyndrome

Your observation is miniscule compared to the information compiled from any consumer report. This isn't a GM bashing thread, it's fact vs opinion. There's no need in fighting a battle that you know you cannot win. The reports are consitencies in the industry, your opinion is complete denial and . Although this is a GM based site, most members on here are enthusiasts who recognize and understand the foundation of each manufacturer, the source of good information. You are the complete opposite, so full of pride and ignorance you disregard half the information presented to you, the source of bad information.

FaSSt67

You think just because I disagree with you my opinion is denial and bs? haha what a joke you are. My family has owned a lot of cars, american and imports. I am just saying from what ive seen and the cars weve had, the imports have not been leaps and bounds better than any GM we have owned(my dads civic and honda pilot have been considerably less reliable but hey im sure he just got a bad one lol). Sorry that i do not take consumer reports seriously. I will buy whatever import they recommend from now on...

downsyndrome

People have always told me that in a debate of opinion vs. facts, the opinion will more than likely win based on the persistence of the source of that information and the diversion that source creates to result in a favorable condition. It is evident that you are persistent even after being caught with your foot in your mouth and have won this debate, I will say no more, have a nice day.

MidLifeinMI

Because they have put food on my table for much of my life, I've always been a staunch GM supporter. However, even I have to grudgingly admit that in years past, Toyota quality has eaten GM's lunch. What I think is happening now (I'm seeing much of this happening first-hand) is that GM's newer or newly-remodeled plants are turning out vehicles with quality comparable to Toyota & Honda, and that the product development practices used for their newer vehicles will help to make sure that this quality continues well beyond the initial purchase.

What still needs to change is the perception of poor quality (remember, overall perception=reality) from years past, AND the dealer experience at GM. Even in light of this Toyota recall, I would venture to say that the vast majority of owners will get friendly, courteous, efficient and quality service at the Toyota dealership - I still would not claim that to be the case at an unacceptably high percentage of GM dealers. The dealer is the first impression most people have of a car, and unfortunately, GM has (or takes) little control of their delinquent dealers.

FaSSt67

Yes I agree about the dealerships. I have nothing good to say about any of the GM dealerships I have ever been into, especially after the car was bought.

PeterK

So, even if GM starts making cars that are just as reliable as toyota, the perception of poor reliability will remain simply because GM dealers just can't seem to fix a problem at the first try.

MidLifeinMI

It may not be the only reason, but it will be a big one. You'll still have 5YO pieces of GM "junk" with hard plastic dashboards and wide sheetmetal gaps until the entire fleet catches up to today.

Allthrottleandsomebottle

Some folks with deleted posts best go read the rules on personal attacks.................

Personal attacks/hostility toward others

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The Forum should be a place where we treat one another with civility so that it remains a fun and friendly place to hang around with other Corvette enthusiasts. Hostility to others is rude and inappropriate.

Personal attacks cannot be tolerated. Attack ideas, not fellow Forum members.

Follow them or be ready to be gone..........

TBIRD57

yep they were included

rbartick

My brother bought a Calypso washer about 5 years ago because it was top rated by Consumer Reports. It turned out to be the biggest piece of $hit ever, consumers who purchased the washer filed a class-action suit against the manufacturer.

http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Large_A...~reviews/pp_~7

I once bought an answering machine based on CR's opinion and it was also a piece of crap. I can't say I would use CR as a reference when buying a car.

downsyndrome

Some people just can't grasp the significance of CR, failing to understand how a national survey works or just lack in the understanding of basic statistical data. Nobody is asking you to put down your bible, it's just simple consumer data, that is all.

Dave68

Anyone who looks at the problem areas for C5 Corvettes in CR will note how incredibly accurate they are. They should be, since I'm just one of the many people who report any issues, year after year.

The same is true of the many issues confronting Mercedes, Audi, and Volkswagen owners; it's all there - just go to any of the respective forums to verify. On the other hand, our Lexus is now 3 years old and has had zero problems. A quick look at a popular Lexus forum shows "What color did you pick?" as a typical post. There are just not many prblems to talk about!

rbartick

For a goof I just checked the Lexus forum and I see plenty of problem reports:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...p?showforum=96

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...p?showforum=90

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...p?showforum=92

Dave68

Yes, here are some of the big problems they are having:

Key Fob Locking Give Long Beep

Cleaning Under Rear Seats ('99 Rx)

Stabilizer Bar Link Removal

'03 Rx300 Transmission Fluid Flush

2002 Rx300 2x4 Wheel Alignment Specs

Yep, major issues with those Lexus vehicles......

PeterK

Well, all vehicles have problems. However what toyota is good for is for not having endemic problem or addressing them quickly. Unlike GM with its CL fiasco and ever-leaking rear differential.