Porsche acccuses Nissan of cheating
09-30-2008, 12:05 PM
#21
Racer
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Sorry, but you are very wrong.
25 seconds is the difference between a Z06 and a Chevy Cobalt at the N-Ring.
Do you really think that "on the right day" anyone is going to be able to make a Cobalt beat the time of a Z06?
Porsche's best time on the GT2 is 7:32 with Rohl driving. We can probably assume that's about as good as it gets for the GT2. They also ran the GT2 the same day they ran the GT-R and they got 7:34 in the GT2 that day.
2 seconds is about right for "different driver, different days". 25 seconds is not about right. 25 seconds is "no way in hell is that possible" level of not right....
as in... "there is no way in hell it's possible that the same trim level and setup GT-R could run 7:29 one day and 7:54 another. That's the difference between a C5 Z06 and a Zonda F Club Sport or Carrera GT... in other words, a HUGE difference. There is no way the same car has a variance of 25 seconds from day to day.
In short, something smells very very fishy, and it's Nissan
25 seconds is the difference between a Z06 and a Chevy Cobalt at the N-Ring.
Do you really think that "on the right day" anyone is going to be able to make a Cobalt beat the time of a Z06?
Porsche's best time on the GT2 is 7:32 with Rohl driving. We can probably assume that's about as good as it gets for the GT2. They also ran the GT2 the same day they ran the GT-R and they got 7:34 in the GT2 that day.
2 seconds is about right for "different driver, different days". 25 seconds is not about right. 25 seconds is "no way in hell is that possible" level of not right....
as in... "there is no way in hell it's possible that the same trim level and setup GT-R could run 7:29 one day and 7:54 another. That's the difference between a C5 Z06 and a Zonda F Club Sport or Carrera GT... in other words, a HUGE difference. There is no way the same car has a variance of 25 seconds from day to day.
In short, something smells very very fishy, and it's Nissan
Good post. Their times for GT2 and 911 Turb were close to what they've published. Nissan was off by 25 seconds.
Ringers.
I hope Chevy had its hands clean on the ZR1 run.
09-30-2008, 12:23 PM
#22
Team Owner
It's funny how they say Nissan is cheating but then they run their cars on Michelin Pilot Sport Cups and the GTR with street tires. LOL
MPSCs are almost as sticky as Hoosiers if you have the pressures right.
These magazines need to agree on one tire to use for testing.
Just goes to show you how much the right tire matters in performance.
Did I mention I sell Hoosier A6 Racing Tires and Michelin Pilot (Full Race) Slicks?
MPSCs are almost as sticky as Hoosiers if you have the pressures right.
These magazines need to agree on one tire to use for testing.
Just goes to show you how much the right tire matters in performance.
Did I mention I sell Hoosier A6 Racing Tires and Michelin Pilot (Full Race) Slicks?
09-30-2008, 01:39 PM
#26
Le Mans Master
About time somebody called Nissan out, I never believed that time was a stock GTR. There was a video on Autoblog where they took the GTR and ZR1 ring videos and played them side-by-side. The ZR1 gained all it's time in the twisty parts and the two cars were pretty much dead nuts even down the straight. That just doesn't make sense for a 480hp car vs. a 638hp car. Something isn't right. Maybe a V-Spec will run 7:29, not the the current production one though.
09-30-2008, 02:09 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
About time somebody called Nissan out, I never believed that time was a stock GTR. There was a video on Autoblog where they took the GTR and ZR1 ring videos and played them side-by-side. The ZR1 gained all it's time in the twisty parts and the two cars were pretty much dead nuts even down the straight. That just doesn't make sense for a 480hp car vs. a 638hp car. Something isn't right. Maybe a V-Spec will run 7:29, not the the current production one though.
09-30-2008, 02:09 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
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its hype. the porsche driver in the gtr is biased. just as steve millen is biased in the gtr. i wish some unbiased driver would drive all these cars on the same track to really see which one is fastest. wait a minute...someone already did! top gear's stig. u can make arguments that it was a differernt stig, weather was different, and it was even yet another ringer car. but really...the gtr is the real deal. its ugly, big, heavy, expensive, but its quick.
09-30-2008, 02:16 PM
#30
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Oh, wow, I stand corrected...Cool!
09-30-2008, 02:27 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
The only thing that puzzles me is they bought a GTR in the USA,took the time to ship it to the 'ring.....but couldn't fit something they went to this much time & trouble to do into Walter Rohls' schedule???
09-30-2008, 02:49 PM
#32
Racer
It's funny how they say Nissan is cheating but then they run their cars on Michelin Pilot Sport Cups and the GTR with street tires. LOL
MPSCs are almost as sticky as Hoosiers if you have the pressures right.
These magazines need to agree on one tire to use for testing.
Just goes to show you how much the right tire matters in performance.
Did I mention I sell Hoosier A6 Racing Tires and Michelin Pilot (Full Race) Slicks?
MPSCs are almost as sticky as Hoosiers if you have the pressures right.
These magazines need to agree on one tire to use for testing.
Just goes to show you how much the right tire matters in performance.
Did I mention I sell Hoosier A6 Racing Tires and Michelin Pilot (Full Race) Slicks?
MPSC's are standard tires for the GT2. The turbo I think comes with standard with PS2's so you have a point there.
09-30-2008, 03:08 PM
#34
Le Mans Master
It's funny how they say Nissan is cheating but then they run their cars on Michelin Pilot Sport Cups and the GTR with street tires. LOL
MPSCs are almost as sticky as Hoosiers if you have the pressures right.
These magazines need to agree on one tire to use for testing.
Just goes to show you how much the right tire matters in performance.
Did I mention I sell Hoosier A6 Racing Tires and Michelin Pilot (Full Race) Slicks?
MPSCs are almost as sticky as Hoosiers if you have the pressures right.
These magazines need to agree on one tire to use for testing.
Just goes to show you how much the right tire matters in performance.
Did I mention I sell Hoosier A6 Racing Tires and Michelin Pilot (Full Race) Slicks?
09-30-2008, 03:27 PM
#35
Safety Car
Though I would of liked to see a non-porsche driver behind the wheel... this proves exactly what is beginning to emerge from testing being done around the world. With the exception of the times put down by wanderer z06, all or mostly all of the times published by what we all know as the 'ringer-GTR's' are/were false. From the factory hp rating of 480hp to the outrageous Nring times, the GTR is nice, technology advanced than most cars on the road, with it's launch control that is absolutely brutal and necessary to get going in the quarter.. with all of that, the GTR is not 7:29 fast. Not even 7:38 fast.
i remember reading the initial reports where an insider of the nissan GTR camp stated that the car with production tires and an average driver that know the Nring well, would be in the 7:50's. Well, that is what this porsche driver produced.
Interesting indeed. Oh, i ran into one last night. We pulled over and talked, he let me sit in it, turn it on and check it out. The car, for its class (m6/e63/911tt) is fantastic... seats are very supportive, the interior has leather wrapped everywhere and has an organic feel to the interior. Very entertaining for sure... you won't get bored sitting in it for a long haul. But it was surprisingly NOISY in the cabin. Thought that was weird with all of the interior paddings and such. I heard the engine clearly in the cabin, not like the z06 at all... which some might like it... I think that might drive me nuts, really!
Anyways, fantastic car... just not as fantastic as nissan and the rest of the youtube fanboy constituents want us all to believe. Here are some real world facts and still some don't want to believe.
No matter, however, I do know NOW for sure that the GTR is NOT.. I repeat NOT faster than a z06 as soon want you to believe. It isn't. Transmission, launch control and all, it will not stay ahead of a z06 in stock trim. Hell, not even with 560awhp will it pass a z06.
Just my opinion of course!!!!!
i remember reading the initial reports where an insider of the nissan GTR camp stated that the car with production tires and an average driver that know the Nring well, would be in the 7:50's. Well, that is what this porsche driver produced.
Interesting indeed. Oh, i ran into one last night. We pulled over and talked, he let me sit in it, turn it on and check it out. The car, for its class (m6/e63/911tt) is fantastic... seats are very supportive, the interior has leather wrapped everywhere and has an organic feel to the interior. Very entertaining for sure... you won't get bored sitting in it for a long haul. But it was surprisingly NOISY in the cabin. Thought that was weird with all of the interior paddings and such. I heard the engine clearly in the cabin, not like the z06 at all... which some might like it... I think that might drive me nuts, really!
Anyways, fantastic car... just not as fantastic as nissan and the rest of the youtube fanboy constituents want us all to believe. Here are some real world facts and still some don't want to believe.
No matter, however, I do know NOW for sure that the GTR is NOT.. I repeat NOT faster than a z06 as soon want you to believe. It isn't. Transmission, launch control and all, it will not stay ahead of a z06 in stock trim. Hell, not even with 560awhp will it pass a z06.
Just my opinion of course!!!!!
09-30-2008, 03:31 PM
#36
Porsche accuses GT-R of cheating at the 'Ring
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/p...ting-the-ring/
IMHO its time for a 3rd party to officiate the Ring tests.
IMHO its time for a 3rd party to officiate the Ring tests.
09-30-2008, 03:32 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Porsche doesn't need to lie.
I wouldn't buy the marketing arguement against Porsche. Porsche has been notorious for consistantly being conservative, sometimes by a lot, in their factory performance figures. They always let the cars speak for themselves because they know people will go out and immediately race a lot of them so any 'fudging' would be readily apparent.
Also Porsche is in little or no need of 'bringing in' new buyers to the 911. It's always nice to sell more cars but the 911 like the Corvette has a huge built in enthusiast base that would never buy anything but a 911 and consider it the high point of all sports cars built. I feel that's wrong, but then again that's why I have a Corvette.
That being said, I see no legitimate reason for Porsche to try to skew any performance numbers on their cars. They can pretty much run the cars exactly as they will perform and let the chips fall where they may. I think the only reason they even bothered to dignify a response to the obviously false times put up by another manufacturer is that they were getting hammered directly on their forums and felt they needed to set a base benchmark to respond to that. Porsche has nothing to prove here, they are a known quantity in the sports car world. Love them or hate them.
P.S. btw the Top Gear GTR was also a early press car ringer so can't really take anything from it's lap times.
Also Porsche is in little or no need of 'bringing in' new buyers to the 911. It's always nice to sell more cars but the 911 like the Corvette has a huge built in enthusiast base that would never buy anything but a 911 and consider it the high point of all sports cars built. I feel that's wrong, but then again that's why I have a Corvette.
That being said, I see no legitimate reason for Porsche to try to skew any performance numbers on their cars. They can pretty much run the cars exactly as they will perform and let the chips fall where they may. I think the only reason they even bothered to dignify a response to the obviously false times put up by another manufacturer is that they were getting hammered directly on their forums and felt they needed to set a base benchmark to respond to that. Porsche has nothing to prove here, they are a known quantity in the sports car world. Love them or hate them.
P.S. btw the Top Gear GTR was also a early press car ringer so can't really take anything from it's lap times.
09-30-2008, 03:55 PM
#38
Racer
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Sweet!
09-30-2008, 03:57 PM
#39
Le Mans Master
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/p...ting-the-ring/
IMHO its time for a 3rd party to officiate the Ring tests.
IMHO its time for a 3rd party to officiate the Ring tests.
25 seconds at 7:54 sounds about right for a 480 hp 3900 lb vehicle.
09-30-2008, 04:01 PM
#40
Melting Slicks
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All Corvette has to do is offer an optional wheel and tire package. BMW has done this for years. Michelin and Corvette already have a good relationship so I don't see any reason why they can't offer an optional wheel/tire setup.
Maybe there is some liability with selling a non-runflat tire on a car with no spare. Hmmmm...
