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Old 01-04-2010, 01:48 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post
Yes being a patriot is supporting US workers. Do you understand that buying foreign cars the US currency no longer circulates here. And if it continues there will be no more currency left. We are our own worst enemy. Id rather buy american and keep the money here.
Yes, I'm fully capable of understanding what you are saying. You apparently don't understand or simply elect to disagree with the concept of a global economy and how it works both ways. We also disagree on whether that makes folks like me patriotic or not.

I can accept that we have a disagreement on this issue and I certainly respect your opinion.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:54 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by dbhajek View Post
Sure you have a problem with driving a import, dont kid yourself. I have told you I have worn the Military Uniform, I have fought for this country, you dont even know me and you call me unpatriotic because I drive a honda. You wouldnt go up to some one and call him a A$$HOLE unless you had a problem with him but that is what you are doing to me.

But like I said, I wore the uniform and my wife still does wear the uniform so you can have your opinions, no mater how wrong they are, and be able to buy any car you want.
I agree with you all the way. Americans blindly supporting American companies is what got this country (meaning the auto industry in particular) in trouble to begin with.

The U.S. auto companies got complacent assuming they would not have to respond to the foreign cars coming to the U.S. 30-40 years ago. They kept ignoring the changes that the market place was responding to.

BTW, the odds are pretty strong that I would win a bet if I bet pTr73 that I've bought far more American vehicles than he has despite the fact that probably 40% of the vehicles I've owned have been foreign

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Old 01-04-2010, 01:57 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post
You being in the armed forces doesnt make you any more patriotic than the next man. I doubt you chose the military because of your patriotic love of this country, you've made a career out of it. I have nothing but total respect for what you and your wife do for this country, and my hats off to you for that, honestly. And its because of your duties and from others to this country I have freedom to do and say as I please.

I just dont see how anyone can proclaim true patriotism but yet support foreign economies. A true patriot thinks... "lets buy american, to support america". There is a reason some things have labels saying "made in the USA".

Again you are wrong, I chose to joined the military because my father did it and I saw how prod he was that he served our country even though he is suffering till this day for it. To bad my dad and I drive hondas, which in your books makes us unpatriotic.

With my wifes education she could easily be making more money out of the military but she choses to stay in because of the love she has for this country. To bad she drives a toyota, which in your books makes here unpatriotic.

Last edited by dbhajek; 01-04-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:01 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by jschindler View Post
I agree with you all the way. Americans blindling supporting American companies is what got this country (meaning the auto industry in particular) in trouble to begin with.

The U.S. auto companies got complacent assuming they would not have to respond to the foreign cars coming to the U.S. 30-40 years ago. They kept ignoring the changes that the market place was responding to.

BTW, the odds are pretty strong that I would win a bet if I bet pTr73 that I've bought far more American vehicles than he has despite the fact that probably 40% of the vehicles I've owned have been foreign
I agree 100% with you also.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:43 PM
  #45  
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you keyboard was imported, throw it out.
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:24 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by FourG63 97GST View Post
you keyboard was imported, throw it out.
Microsoft keyboard last I checked it is american. About 90% of my computer utilizes american parts (by choice).

As I said earlier there are a few instances where you cant buy American. But a true patriot supports america when he/she can. Buying a foreign car and claiming how pro-american you are is just plain contradictory. Its the equivalent of having a lifelong friend who is homosexual and then later in the day go march in an anti-gay rally!
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:40 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post
Microsoft keyboard last I checked it is american. About 90% of my computer utilizes american parts (by choice).

As I said earlier there are a few instances where you cant buy American. But a true patriot supports america when he/she can. Buying a foreign car and claiming how pro-american you are is just plain contradictory. Its the equivalent of having a lifelong friend who is homosexual and then later in the day go march in an anti-gay rally!
My Microsoft Keyboard 1000 is made in China.

So you only buy American when its convenient.

Thats equivalent to marching in a anti-gay rally but you have gay friends.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:10 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post
Microsoft keyboard last I checked it is american. About 90% of my computer utilizes american parts (by choice).

As I said earlier there are a few instances where you cant buy American. But a true patriot supports america when he/she can. Buying a foreign car and claiming how pro-american you are is just plain contradictory. Its the equivalent of having a lifelong friend who is homosexual and then later in the day go march in an anti-gay rally!
Okay, I must say that I'm getting a little annoyed. Feel free to share your opinions about buying American. But I think you are crossing a line when you tell us that just because we are buying foreign cars that we are not partiotic.

I think the breakdown in this discussion is that these cars are not being handed out for free. You are suggesting that we spend our hard earned money on what we consider inferior design or quality just to support other Americans who design and build said inferior products. Sorry - I don't consider that being related to whether or not I am patriotic or not.

I also think you are totally ignoring my point about a "global economy". The U.S. brings in huge sums of money buy selling products to other countries (I guess you would say that we are preying on the unpatriotic folks in those countries who are not being loyal themselves). Do you think the folks in China who eat at McDonalds are not patriotic to their country?
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:35 AM
  #49  
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[QUOTE=dbhajek;1572645548]My Microsoft Keyboard 1000 is made in China.[\quote]

Its made in china to keep manufacturing costs down, its still an american company and the profits stay here, case in point!!!!!

So you only buy American when its convenient.
No... I buy american when I can not when its convenient. Especially with cars. U claim you bought a lexus over a caddy because you think its better (let me guess more it was more refined right)? Then why did you opt for a vette? Why not a porsche or a M6? Doesnt everyone seem to say that euro cars are more refined than american? I buy american because I am an american, aside that I like american cars better.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:50 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by jschindler View Post
Okay, I must say that I'm getting a little annoyed. Feel free to share your opinions about buying American. But I think you are crossing a line when you tell us that just because we are buying foreign cars that we are not partiotic.
How is that crossing the line? Dont call yourself a true patriot of a country when you support the interests of other countries. And if your getting annoyed then dont respond anymore.

I think the breakdown in this discussion is that these cars are not being handed out for free. You are suggesting that we spend our hard earned money on what we consider inferior design or quality just to support other Americans who design and build said inferior products. Sorry - I don't consider that being related to whether or not I am patriotic or not.
So why did you buy a vette? If american cars are of "inferior design"? America offers some of the greatest technologies.

Just one example:
Motor Trend july '09 issue Caddy CTS-V bests the M5 in almost every aspect and costs about $25k less. And you say american cars have inferior design? Now your sounding ridiculous.

I also think you are totally ignoring my point about a "global economy". The U.S. brings in huge sums of money buy selling products to other countries (I guess you would say that we are preying on the unpatriotic folks in those countries who are not being loyal themselves). Do you think the folks in China who eat at McDonalds are not patriotic to their country?
You are going into all these loopholes and stuff... The bottom line is...

Do you think supporting foreign economies is being patriotic to your country??????

Its a simple yes or no answer, there is no need to go into global trade and/or embargo and import/export mumbo jumbo crap.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:23 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post
How is that crossing the line? Dont call yourself a true patriot of a country when you support the interests of other countries. And if your getting annoyed then dont respond anymore.
sorry, I'm not that easily driven off - apparently we have something in common

So why did you buy a vette? If american cars are of "inferior design"? America offers some of the greatest technologies.
I guess I'll have to be more specific in the future. I'm sorry you took my post to mean that all American cars are inferior. Maybe you missed my earlier post where I effectively put up a bet that I've owned more American vehicles than you have. Here are my numbers - 33 American, 22 Japanese, 1 Swedish.

Just one example:
Motor Trend july '09 issue Caddy CTS-V bests the M5 in almost every aspect and costs about $25k less. And you say american cars have inferior design? Now your sounding ridiculous.
I've read all the tests. I know that stuff well. But I'm glad you brought it up. At this moment, I have a 2008 Cadillac CTS that I've had four two years now. I also have in my garage a 2010 Lexus GS350 that is replacing the CTS. If you think you know more about which is the better vehicle than I do, I'd be happy to debate it. I gave the Caddy a try - spent a lot of money to drive it for two years. I was very dissapointed in the car overall.


You are going into all these loopholes and stuff... The bottom line is...

Do you think supporting foreign economies is being patriotic to your country??????

Its a simple yes or no answer, there is no need to go into global trade and/or embargo and import/export mumbo jumbo crap.
Loopholes??? Not sure I understand that. And if you think it's "mumbo jumbo crap", then it shows me you have brought a knife to a gunfight.

There is not a yes or no to your question because I think you are confusing issues. All these patriots you are referring to is amusing. Are your ancestors American Indians? Damn few of us actually can trace our ancestory to North America. Most of our roots are from foreign countries. I'd like to explain that further - but I don't see how you'll grasp the concept any more than the other mumbo jumbo stuff I've been laying on you.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:27 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post
...aside that I like american cars better.
For once we can agree on something. We are both buying what we buy because we think its better. I respect that!
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:08 PM
  #53  
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[QUOTE=pTr73;1572647397]
Originally Posted by dbhajek View Post
My Microsoft Keyboard 1000 is made in China.[\quote]

Its made in china to keep manufacturing costs down, its still an american company and the profits stay here, case in point!!!!!



No... I buy american when I can not when its convenient. Especially with cars. U claim you bought a lexus over a caddy because you think its better (let me guess more it was more refined right)? Then why did you opt for a vette? Why not a porsche or a M6? Doesnt everyone seem to say that euro cars are more refined than american? I buy american because I am an american, aside that I like american cars better.
Are you reading all my post or the ones you want?

If you really believed in all this buy American, keep the money in the states then you would do without when you couldnt find a product that wasnt American made, like I said you only buy American when its convenient. For some reason you can decide when its OK to buy American or when its not on certain products, but not when it comes to cars.

I bought a Lexus for many reasons over a Cadillac, but the main reason is after my wife test drove all the cars, even american made cars, the IS350 was the one my wife like the best. Just because you wont look at a Lexus and buy American cars blindly doesnt mean I will.

Same goes for the Vette, after test driving and doing research on a Porsche 996TT, Nissan GT-R and a C6 ZO6 I like the ZO6 the best.

I dont buy imports because they are imports and I dont buy American because it American, and the same goes for all my products I buy not just cars.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:03 PM
  #54  
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[QUOTE=pTr73;1572647397]
Originally Posted by dbhajek View Post
My Microsoft Keyboard 1000 is made in China.[\quote]

Its made in china to keep manufacturing costs down, its still an american company and the profits stay here, case in point!!!!!
Wait, your OK with this!!!! Isnt one of the reason buyng American is to keep the jobs in America? Or your OK with American companys sending jobs out of this country as long as it keeps your cost down on the products you want to buy?

So you would be OK if all US Autos were made in Mexico just as long as they were keeping cost down?

Who do you think pays the salaries of the workers putting togethet that keyboard in china? Maybe Microsoft and how did they get that money to pay those keyboards made in china, maybe you from buying a microsoft keyboard. There goes your money to china.

Like I said before, it looks like you are picking and chosing what products this buy American patriotism applies to.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:47 AM
  #55  
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[QUOTE=dbhajek;1572649078]
Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post

Are you reading all my post or the ones you want?
I am reading all your posts, I can not respond to every thing everyone says. I am debating you and jshindler over this.

If you really believed in all this buy American, keep the money in the states then you would do without when you couldnt find a product that wasnt American made, like I said you only buy American when its convenient. For some reason you can decide when its OK to buy American or when its not on certain products, but not when it comes to cars.
That is a crock of Convenience has nothing to do with anything. What is so inconvenient about buying foreign? Please tell me since I am confused why you used that word. I buy american because I support it not because its convenient.

Stop trying to reach for straws, the difference between you and I is that I look for things that say "made in the USA" and then support it, you dont. So that right there makes me more patriotic then you are, bottom line!

It doesnt matter what uniform you wear. I am a uniformed employee for the city of new york. And like yourself I have always wanted to work for the city (like my father did). Does that mean I love NYC more than anyone else?
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:10 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by jschindler View Post
sorry, I'm not that easily driven off - apparently we have something in common


I guess I'll have to be more specific in the future. I'm sorry you took my post to mean that all American cars are inferior. Maybe you missed my earlier post where I effectively put up a bet that I've owned more American vehicles than you have. Here are my numbers - 33 American, 22 Japanese, 1 Swedish.
I am not that old, lol
I been driving since 1990 and can count on 1 hand how many cars I have had. They were all american I can assure you that. Kept them for long stretches because I never had any major issues with them.


I've read all the tests. I know that stuff well. But I'm glad you brought it up. At this moment, I have a 2008 Cadillac CTS that I've had four two years now. I also have in my garage a 2010 Lexus GS350 that is replacing the CTS. If you think you know more about which is the better vehicle than I do, I'd be happy to debate it. I gave the Caddy a try - spent a lot of money to drive it for two years. I was very dissapointed in the car overall.
I am sure you think the lexus is better than the caddy. But that is more opinion over fact and that is fine. We are all entitled to do as we please. This is a free country after all isnt it?

Loopholes??? Not sure I understand that. And if you think it's "mumbo jumbo crap", then it shows me you have brought a knife to a gunfight.

There is not a yes or no to your question because I think you are confusing issues. All these patriots you are referring to is amusing. Are your ancestors American Indians? Damn few of us actually can trace our ancestory to North America. Most of our roots are from foreign countries. I'd like to explain that further - but I don't see how you'll grasp the concept any more than the other mumbo jumbo stuff I've been laying on you.
I am not confusing anythng, I asked a question which requires a simple yes and no answer. Not some elongated sentence explaining about global trade and all.

Loopholes means being evasive to the question I asked which was... Do you think supporting foreign economies is being patriotic to your country?

My answer is no which is one of the reasons I try to buy american. This way I know some man or woman who has a family can keep their job. Its bad enough that humans are already being replaced by robots, computers and machines.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:18 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post
....I am not confusing anythng, I asked a question which requires a simple yes and no answer. Not some elongated sentence explaining about global trade and all...
I had no idea that my yes or no answer was not already clear. I've said that I don't think the two issues are as related as you think they are. I think one can be patriotic and still buy foreign cars.

Let's just agree to dissagree and move on to other things to argue about. Somehow I'd bet if we met each other for lunch we'd actually get along well. We're both hard-head and stand behind what we believe. I respect you for that
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:44 AM
  #58  
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[QUOTE=pTr73;1572658808]
Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post

I am reading all your posts, I can not respond to every thing everyone says. I am debating you and jshindler over this.



That is a crock of Convenience has nothing to do with anything. What is so inconvenient about buying foreign? Please tell me since I am confused why you used that word. I buy american because I support it not because its convenient.

Stop trying to reach for straws, the difference between you and I is that I look for things that say "made in the USA" and then support it, you dont. So that right there makes me more patriotic then you are, bottom line!

It doesnt matter what uniform you wear. I am a uniformed employee for the city of new york. And like yourself I have always wanted to work for the city (like my father did). Does that mean I love NYC more than anyone else?
and I can say that the difference between you and I is I served and fought for my country and you havent, so that right there makes me more patriotic then you are, bottom line! But I dont believe me serving in the military makes me any more patriotic then you but you think your more patriotic then me because you go down to the local Chevy dealer and buy a Vette or type on a Microsoft keyboard made in china. When they say freedom doesnt come free they didnt mean it was the price of a Corvette.

So no you trying to buy American in this global economy doesnt make you more patriotic then me, case in point your microsoft keyboard made in china.

You working for New York City because of your love for New York city and that shows the love and pride you have for the city. No different then me showing the love and pride I have for my Country by joining the military.

18 year old kid graduates from high school and joins the army for the love of this country. Goes to 12 weeks of infantry basic then gets assingned to his infantry unit. He deploys to afghanistan where he spends the next 6 - 12 months in a really crappy and hostile environment, getting shot at even might have to take someones life. He comes back to America and with the money he saves from afghanistan he buys a Honda Civic and you are telling me you are more patriotic them him because you have a Microsoft Keyboard made in china and a corvette in your driveway?

Its not crock or reaching for straws, there is a limit to your buying in America patriotism. A perfect example is you buying a Microsoft Keyboard made in China and then trying to convince yourself even though its a American company its OK to send jobs to china since they are trying to cut down the cost. Another example is you saying "I know I cant buy everything american as with alot of electronics such as sony, and panasonic" no one is making you buy sony or panasonic and arent even a necessity but this hole buying American patriotism goes out the window I guess when it comes to electronics, which means there is a limit to your patriotism. Your like someone that calls themselfs a vegetarian but eats meat 30% of the time.


My wife was asked to give a speech at the Guadalupe CA war memorial on Veterans Day last year. I put it up so you can see who you are calling unpatriotic because she drives a toyota and what it means to wear the military uniform and how being a true patriot has nothing to do with what car you drive. She will also mention my dad who drives a honda and toyota. You think those veterans sitting around my wife that day that drove up in imports are not as patriotic as you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTU80MKtNPE

What did you do on your day off you recieved for Veterans Day?

Last edited by dbhajek; 01-06-2010 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:38 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by iridelow View Post
Sounds like he got a Lemon or needs to take it to the dealership.
I agree, my pops has a 07 LS460 we bought new and that car is quiet, and only rattle was from a speaker cover, which there is a TSB for
looks like your son got a lemon or that car was previously wrecked or flooded
definetly bring it to the dealer

as to fit and finish...it is light years ahead of the vette, the leather is a lot nicer, center console is solid etc..if he has all the packages his center console should be leather wrapped, and side door are wrapped with nice and soft leather, just like on my dad's car
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:13 PM
  #60  
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[QUOTE=dbhajek;1572660264]
Originally Posted by pTr73 View Post

Your like someone that calls themselfs a vegetarian but eats meat 30% of the time.
Now you are trying to twist things! I dont contradict myself as you do. You claim your a patriot but you buy japanese cars, I dont... Do you have one of those American flags on it too? That looks even more contradictory dont you think? And as I said there are some things you cant avoid buying that are domestic. But I try to avoid it 99% of the time, you dont!

I support my country's economy and buy domestic not foreign. And stop bringing up my keyboard. Microsoft is an american company, and if it was manufactured in china does that make it chinese then? No! Just as your dad's honda was manufactured in Greensburg, Indiana its still japanese isnt it? Doesnt japan get the proceeds?



What did you do on your day off you recieved for Veterans Day?
Its a paid holiday, so I sat home and was paid for the day!
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