OregonC6

1/ Since when does 8 years make an "era" in automotive engineering? The C5 and C6 together , plus the development time for the C5 maybe is an era. The C6 used a LOT of concepts and materials proven on the C5. It remains to be seen if the C7 will build on the C6 to a similar degree or be significantly different. Until we know the answer to that I suggest we have seen the "C5 and C6 Era". We might eventually see it frozen at that or become the C5, C6, and C7 Era". Time will tell.

2/ Nobody says anything without clearance from the publicity and marketing planning department. My guess is that the mop the floor quote was preplanned.

3/ Speaking of plans there is no Corvette Company or Camaro Company. Everything that is happening is coordinated and planned to happen that way. It's called a marketing plan. It's purpose is to maximize profit by achieving the desired product line "mix".

They may play Camaro owners off against vette owners and vis versa. The "target market" for the two cars overlaps but is significantly different. It's not as different as in the past IMO but still plenty different.

4/ One of these days some of you are going to get the point about profit margin on the vette and how much money is being made per unit. If you doubt this consider those Brembos on the Camaro. These are better and considerably more expensive than even Z06 brakes. How can they afford to supply these on a car that lists for considerably less ( same as with the CTS-V ). It's because the market segments served are different. The vette segment will pay more $ for the name and therefore can be hosed.

5/ Not many of these top 550 hp Camaros will be built. This will produce artificial scarcity. They won't build enough to satisfy demand at the stated full list price. You know what happens then? This a juicy morsel for the dealers. What happens next is the dealer adds a $20,000 "market adjustment".

6/ Ultimately, the top Camaro will be built in small numbers for one primary reason....that being to pump up the sales of all the "other" Camaro models on which even higher profit margins are made. It's the halo car of the Camaro line. Kind of why the ZR-1 exists.

Some manufacturers carry this to the extreme. You can spot this easily when you see some flashy sports model briefly on a TV commercial just before the utility van from the same manufacturer comes on the screen. The poor sap who will never afford the ZR-1 ( or whatever ) CAN and MUST afford the grocery van to carry around the wife and kids.

7/ I continue to believe that everyone who graduates from university ( and perhaps high school ) should have to take "Marketing 101" at a minimum. Add to that "Intro to Marketing Research" and perhaps an advertising class and very little of this smoke and mirrors game could be played with all your heads.

Repeat after me: "It's all planned. Nothing happens by accident or slip of the tongue. The same corporation builds and sells both cars. Their marketing plans are fully integrated."

8/ All this might be totally , and I mean totally academic if gasoline goes to $4.50 a gallon or more. The inertia of marketing plans in a huge corporation is such that plans being implemented now were in the works years ago when different conditions prevailed. One of the rarest American muscle cars of all time could prove to be this new top dog Camaro because so few could end up being built.

Amen

ps I might add that these are my opinions. I frequently change my opinions based upon new information. Therefore, if anyone wishes to take issue with my opinions what I'm looking for is new facts or new analysis. Given new facts or better analysis I usually change my opinion. It's called constructive criticism and I take it well.

wildanblue

jrc50

For someone who has been in the market for a new Corvette (apparently one of the few from the deteriorating sales numbers), the long delayed appearance of the "super" Camaro in whatever badge GM decided to give it really confuses the choices out there.
I certainly agree that the C6, especially the GS, remains an excellent choice in overall balance, power and appearance-but for blunt force and impact the ZL1 takes the performance prize, even if in more of a straight line. Employing some of the little remaining "sacred" Corvette technology, GM seems to be picking the remaining product development flesh off the C6 platform for use elsewhere.
This will only help continue the erosion of the Corvette-repeated posts here and in the auto news world comment that the C7 is simply a "transition car" for the C8, whatever and whenever that might/might not come
The Corvette remains a great "touring car" especially in convertible form but GM has now effectively minimized the brand going forward until such time as they see fit to dedicate the resources to return it to what it once was among competitors.

cthusker

The the only thing holding back the base C6 from having 450 to 475 hp is the Z06! It's almost ridiculously easy for the LS3 to pump out another 40 hp while keeping it N/A. I'd bet the only reason that hasn't been done is to avoid completely killing Z06 sales.....

If GM thinks having these cars over lapping in performance helps sell more Camaro's good luck! I do believe it will siphon off a few vette buyers but perhaps GM really doesn't care.....

kenedds

CETA 256

We love our SS.

GOLD72

A heavier LSA Camaro isn't going to beat an LS9 ZR1 at anything but will accommodate 4 persons in the car. The story didn't imply that it would beat a ZR1 or a Z06 for that matter.

tim414

This supposed/proposed ZL1 Camaro may whip up on a BASE C6/GS.....but, however, comma, I do NOT believe the camaro will hang with ZR1.....They weigh alot less to start with. And still have more power to boot. 550 vs 600+ while weighing less.....Nope....I do NOT believe it will hang with a Z06 either because of weight issues.....

I think the thought here is one that Chevy is competing with Ford Mustangs.....they are getting faster and faster......out of the box.

If it does though....why would Chevorlet/GM destroy Corvette???? Because it would. Does NOT make any sense to destroy a marque they have work so hard to be competitive and to keep on the world stage....I WOULD dump my Vette if Chevorlet DOES do something like this. They sure as hell better get that C7 to market....and it better be one badass animal....all I care to say.

wizzy2k2x

Idk what your ISF has but that car can barely hang with base corvette in straight or track go look at reviews and times before you state that.

KneeDragr

The only thing an IS-F will beat a C6 in is a back seat contest.

And that Camaro might win a drag race but with those narrow tires it isnt going to get around a road course any faster than a C6 base.

Look at the Ford GT500, its only a few seconds faster than the 5.0 around VIR, and almost 7 seconds off the Grand Sport.

Thats all this ZL1 is, a car for stop light showoffs.

KneeDragr

BTW, the Corvette is certainly a fast car in a strait line, but you guys are missing the point if you think thats what Corvette performance is about.

All this 'whipping up' talk is absurd - you guys are only talking about 0-60 and 1/4 mile performance, and at best the C6 might be a few tenths slower than this ZL-1. 'Whipping up' to me means something different than a few tenths in the 1/4 mile. If it was pulling 10 second quarters, you could say that, not if it pulls a 12.2 to the C6's 12.4.

And once the road hits the first braking zone or corner, the contest is over, Corvette wins.

Does the 911 Turbo 'whip up' on the ZR-1? It pulls a 2.6 0-60 time and a 10.9 1/4 mile.

Yet as far as I can tell, every comparo Ive see picks the ZR-1, which also sets faster lap times.

lastcowboy

AND THIS IS THE SLOW MODEL,YOU CAN ORDER OVER 700+HP GUESS THIS IS THE 2012 VETTE The 1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 was a performance monster, featuring an all-aluminum engine displacing 427 cubic inches that was originally intended for racing. Just 69 units were built, and they are highly coveted by collectors today. Perhaps it shouldn't come as a surprise, then, that Chevrolet chose to resurrect this classic moniker for what it is calling the fastest and most technologically advanced Camaro ever built.

At this point, specifications are still preliminary, but Chevrolet is estimating that its supercharged and intercooled 6.2-liter LSA V8 engine will put out around 550 horsepower and 550 pound-feet of torque. Those ponies will be sent to the rear wheels via a six-speed manual transmission using a dual-disc clutch that's necessary to properly harness all those horses. There's also a dual-mode exhaust system that alters the sound level and character in response to engine rpm.

Chevrolet tells us that its goal was to build "a Camaro intended to reach optimal lap times on top road-racing circuits and excellent driving dynamics on the street." To that end, the 2012 Camaro ZL1 will be fitted with a new electric power steering system and Magnetic Ride Control that will offer both Tour and Sport modes. Brembo brakes measuring 14.6-inch (370 mm) in the front (with six-piston calipers) and 14.4-inch (365 mm) at the rear (with four-piston calipers) bring it all back down from speed.

Naturally, there's an updated body kit to differentiate the ZL1 from lesser machines. Most notable are the redesigned fascia that features a front splitter, vertical fog lamps and air intakes designed for brake cooling. There's also a new aluminum hood with a raised, satin black-finish carbon fiber insert that uses a unique air extractor that is said to increase downforce by directing oncoming air over the car. There's also a spoiler at the rear of the car and new 20-inch aluminum wheels fitted with specially developed Goodyear Supercar F2 tires.

Chevrolet promises to have the Camaro ZL1 on dealer lots in the beginning of 2012, and it will be available in any color offered on the Camaro. We can hardly wait. In the meantime, check out all the details in the video and press release after the break, and feel free to drool over the high-res image gallery below.

lastcowboy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zdTZ4O_E58

zoom

lastcowboy

well looks like gm screwed us again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IguAH_3jqe0

AFVETTE

I'm glad I own a Z06 and won't have to obsess or come up with excuses if/when I come face to face with a ZL1.

Of course you'll always be able to mod the base 430HP C6 to be faster than a stock ZL1. BTW I believe the Corvette has reached the upper limit to how much folks are willing to pay for a Cheverolet. Which makes it easy for GM to market a Camaro costing $40+K with 550HP look very attractive for the vast majority of blue collar workers. It's called MSRP creep for the C6 that is going to kill C6 sales even further.

For the record I'm looking at a CTS-V wagon as my retirement vehicle by selling my 09 SRX and 07 Z06 and down sizing to ONE bad *** vehicle that carries everything we want/need and goes plenty fast.

Tom

vettedoogie

Ultimately, this really all comes down to GM vs Ford (and other competitors) as to what performance choices a buyer can get. GM CLEARLY offers a vastly larger and more diverse arsenal of performance cars including the Corvette, CTS-V, and Camaro. Ford offers the Mustang...GM wins this segment with the Camaro already! The Z28, ZL1, and SSX are CLEARLY going to answer anything Mustang has to offer for some time to come. Result - GM makes money!!

The C7 is coming and the CTS-V and ZL1 are great indicators of the positives GM will be bringing to the party. The C7 will add the next generation of technology such as lighter connectivity technology for lighter weight, direct injection, and who knows what else? They have to develop/market/use these newer technologies so they can keep offering them in the up-coming Caddy's and Camaro's!

lastcowboy

sounds like GM put everything we wanted on the new vette into the CAMMARO +++++more and cheaper.
it was nice to hear the corvette team worked on it with them.looking at all 3 HP options they offer i don't know how a corvette could compete at those prices .i do know one will be setting in my garage

lastcowboy

i think the point here is the vette is being left behind with a long way to catch up and how can it do it at these prices .i have to give to gm on this one but it should have been the vette.for the vette to offer what the cammro has now it will have to sell for150k

lastcowboy

WELL THEY DID CHANGE THE SEATS...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goMxupIoQfE:)

KneeDragr

Thats a lot of assumptions there "Tom". You are assuming how fast this ZL1 will be, you are assuming its price, and you are assuming blue collar workers could afford either of these cars. Remember the rule of thumb is you should never spend more than 4 months salary on your car. I dont see a lot of blue collar workers making 120k+ a year do you? Sure some stupid ones might purchase one, but they cant afford it, and will be forced to make sacrifices in other areas.

Also, Im going to make an assumption and suggest that if you think a CTS-V is good replacement for a Z06 corvette you really have no idea how to drive your Z06.