Price gap Corvette vs, 2013 Mustang
05-17-2012, 02:26 AM
#41
Le Mans Master
05-17-2012, 08:45 AM
#42
Thank you. I just got my window sticker. So the factory has my car scheduled to be built on Tuesday. Soon it will go from a pile of raw materials to an actual car haha.
05-24-2012, 01:03 AM
#43
Team Owner
05-24-2012, 11:15 AM
#44
Le Mans Master
i lost what? sorry if wikepedia isn't on my highlights as a fact source. i checked out barry-o and there was no entry describing the fact that he's a weed smoking socialist that was born no where near the us of a.
jinx = lose
good day, maddam
06-10-2012, 09:17 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
There are situations that make sense....if you owned GM preferred stock for the nice yield, you lost it all....horrible outcome for those of us who invested in what should have been a stable, dependable investment....reason enough to turn your back on GM forever IMHO.
) buy it and be happy!
06-10-2012, 10:46 AM
#47
NO it isn't. ........ and for many of us it isn't even about the idea of tax payer money given to GM. It's about THEFT sanctioned at the highest level of Government.
Lot's of alternatives out their now both Ford and alll those foreign makes. He gives up nothing to make this stand on principle.
Taking this stand against what happened to bond holders and the twisted way in which current UAW employees and Retired UAW employees benefited and CONTINUE to benefit at the expense of Bond holders.
This isn't the political section so I won't go into it very deeply I'll just skim the surface of the important stuff too many current GM buyers probably don't even realize.........but you might want to really look at that settlement and the pressure applied by the "Debtor in Possession" to take from creditors what they were LEGALLY ENTITLED TO and give it to the UAW interests that Politically favor this administration.
I was one of the people who applauded Government money to save GM......... the company truly was too big to fail......especially in those already horribly dark days of late '08 and early '09..... but my enthusiasm went away pretty quick when the leverage of being the only available lender was used to "up-end" and do great damage to the predictability of 100 years of precedent in the bankruptcy courts.
When someone says, "Ill never buy GM again!"....... you don't have to agree with 'em but I do hope you understand what actually happened and how very damaging it was to the entire idea of property rights, bankruptcy proceedings and the idea of America as the safest place to invest because of our "rule of law".
For me what happened amounted to THEFT and buying a GM car today is not at all unlike buying stolen product from a thief in an ally way.
He's far from alone.........but fear not. Your beloved company and it's union thieves will survive. Memories are short and most Americans don't get it anyway.
Let's face it.......... if Volkswagen could sell as many Beatles as they did in the States and Europe after WW2............ I'm relatively certain GM will survive this too.
But you're dead wrong when you say that those who take a stand on this are "crazy"........... if you insist ...... I might have to suggest you are short-sighted and unable to see how you are rewarding what amounts to theft when you choose to buy a new GM car or truck.
Lot's of alternatives out their now both Ford and alll those foreign makes. He gives up nothing to make this stand on principle.
Taking this stand against what happened to bond holders and the twisted way in which current UAW employees and Retired UAW employees benefited and CONTINUE to benefit at the expense of Bond holders.
This isn't the political section so I won't go into it very deeply I'll just skim the surface of the important stuff too many current GM buyers probably don't even realize.........but you might want to really look at that settlement and the pressure applied by the "Debtor in Possession" to take from creditors what they were LEGALLY ENTITLED TO and give it to the UAW interests that Politically favor this administration.
I was one of the people who applauded Government money to save GM......... the company truly was too big to fail......especially in those already horribly dark days of late '08 and early '09..... but my enthusiasm went away pretty quick when the leverage of being the only available lender was used to "up-end" and do great damage to the predictability of 100 years of precedent in the bankruptcy courts.
When someone says, "Ill never buy GM again!"....... you don't have to agree with 'em but I do hope you understand what actually happened and how very damaging it was to the entire idea of property rights, bankruptcy proceedings and the idea of America as the safest place to invest because of our "rule of law".
For me what happened amounted to THEFT and buying a GM car today is not at all unlike buying stolen product from a thief in an ally way.
He's far from alone.........but fear not. Your beloved company and it's union thieves will survive. Memories are short and most Americans don't get it anyway.
Let's face it.......... if Volkswagen could sell as many Beatles as they did in the States and Europe after WW2............ I'm relatively certain GM will survive this too.
But you're dead wrong when you say that those who take a stand on this are "crazy"........... if you insist ...... I might have to suggest you are short-sighted and unable to see how you are rewarding what amounts to theft when you choose to buy a new GM car or truck.
06-10-2012, 11:02 AM
#48
WOW!!!.......just WOW!!!
You really need to go back and read.
Your post is just so laced with total IGNORANCE of what actually happened I wonder if you know anything about the process of saving GM at all.
Again......saving GM isn't the problem.
Using tax payer money when NOTHING was available to 'em in the unbelievable bad and seized up private sector also.....NOT THE PROBLEM HERE!!
The UAW got WAY MORE than they should have based on any example you will ever find in a bankruptcy proceeding before or since.
They got it because the Obama administration simply could not and would not allow the courts to act as they should based on precedent.
Obama used his available leverage to reward a loyal political support base.
That ISN'T how the law is supposed to work. It's bad enough when something this corrupt and twisted happens on a small scale and out of sight but to happen so publicly and on such a BIG SCALE!!!????!!!!???
It's reason enough for me to not only say I won't buy a GM car or truck.......it's enough all by itself to say this President can't win a second term. His blatant disregard and ignorance for what makes America the preferred destination and home for Capital from the world over as well as American's themselves threatens our most significant advantage over others in the world who'd be only too happy to "eat our lunch" and take our place.
You really need to go back and read.
Your post is just so laced with total IGNORANCE of what actually happened I wonder if you know anything about the process of saving GM at all.
Again......saving GM isn't the problem.
Using tax payer money when NOTHING was available to 'em in the unbelievable bad and seized up private sector also.....NOT THE PROBLEM HERE!!
The UAW got WAY MORE than they should have based on any example you will ever find in a bankruptcy proceeding before or since.
They got it because the Obama administration simply could not and would not allow the courts to act as they should based on precedent.
Obama used his available leverage to reward a loyal political support base.
That ISN'T how the law is supposed to work. It's bad enough when something this corrupt and twisted happens on a small scale and out of sight but to happen so publicly and on such a BIG SCALE!!!????!!!!???
It's reason enough for me to not only say I won't buy a GM car or truck.......it's enough all by itself to say this President can't win a second term. His blatant disregard and ignorance for what makes America the preferred destination and home for Capital from the world over as well as American's themselves threatens our most significant advantage over others in the world who'd be only too happy to "eat our lunch" and take our place.
06-10-2012, 11:17 AM
#49
Drifting
Member Since: May 2009
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WOW!!!.......just WOW!!!
You really need to go back and read.
Your post is just so laced with total IGNORANCE of what actually happened I wonder if you know anything about the process of saving GM at all.
Again......saving GM isn't the problem.
Using tax payer money when NOTHING was available to 'em in the unbelievable bad and seized up private sector also.....NOT THE PROBLEM HERE!!
The UAW got WAY MORE than they should have based on any example you will ever find in a bankruptcy proceeding before or since.
They got it because the Obama administration simply could not and would not allow the courts to act as they should based on precedent.
Obama used his available leverage to reward a loyal political support base.
That ISN'T how the law is supposed to work. It's bad enough when something this corrupt and twisted happens on a small scale and out of sight but to happen so publicly and on such a BIG SCALE!!!????!!!!???
It's reason enough for me to not only say I won't buy a GM car or truck.......it's enough all by itself to say this President can't win a second term. His blatant disregard and ignorance for what makes America the preferred destination and home for Capital from the world over as well as American's themselves threatens our most significant advantage over others in the world who'd be only too happy to "eat our lunch" and take our place.
You really need to go back and read.
Your post is just so laced with total IGNORANCE of what actually happened I wonder if you know anything about the process of saving GM at all.
Again......saving GM isn't the problem.
Using tax payer money when NOTHING was available to 'em in the unbelievable bad and seized up private sector also.....NOT THE PROBLEM HERE!!
The UAW got WAY MORE than they should have based on any example you will ever find in a bankruptcy proceeding before or since.
They got it because the Obama administration simply could not and would not allow the courts to act as they should based on precedent.
Obama used his available leverage to reward a loyal political support base.
That ISN'T how the law is supposed to work. It's bad enough when something this corrupt and twisted happens on a small scale and out of sight but to happen so publicly and on such a BIG SCALE!!!????!!!!???
It's reason enough for me to not only say I won't buy a GM car or truck.......it's enough all by itself to say this President can't win a second term. His blatant disregard and ignorance for what makes America the preferred destination and home for Capital from the world over as well as American's themselves threatens our most significant advantage over others in the world who'd be only too happy to "eat our lunch" and take our place.
You know for the sake of being consistant.
06-10-2012, 11:24 AM
#50
Heel & Toe
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A Mustang and Corvette cannot be compared. They are two different cars completely.
As far as price gap. A c5 z06 is the best buy out there as it provides the most bang for the buck.If need be add some extra money for mods and you have the best buy for the money. BTW- 08,09 Z06's are another steal.
As far as price gap. A c5 z06 is the best buy out there as it provides the most bang for the buck.If need be add some extra money for mods and you have the best buy for the money. BTW- 08,09 Z06's are another steal.
06-10-2012, 02:13 PM
#51
Team Owner
Name one.
And please don't conveniently leave out any of the critical standard elements (ie: awesome combination of speed, handling, braking, interior comfort/space, open roof, fuel economy and price) that make the car great when attempting to do so either.
Sometimes standing simply on principle alone can be very counterproductive, even self destructive.
So it sounds like your problem is with the Government (in particular the Obama admin) and the UAW not really GM as a company. In that case I can only assume that since the UAW is big part of Ford and Chrysler you must feel the same about them too.
You know for the sake of being consistant.
You know for the sake of being consistant.
Exactly. And I do like how he conveniently overlooks so many of the crooked tax/corporate business practices that other governments have implemented yet buying vehicles with origins/manufacturing based in those nations is ok?
They have all pulled crap like this, it's just that this one was a little bigger and a little more public.
06-10-2012, 06:03 PM
#52
Team Owner
I've owned 3 Vettes, did that mean I had to buy another to remain a moderator here on the site? No! I have no intent of stepping down either.
Many of the moderators here no longer own a Vette(s.)
Original stockholders got the shaft. DC and the unions own the majority of GM now. The way it went down was illegal. So eff GM and our current admin.
Picked up the Boss 2 weeks ago. $45K MRSP. Fit and finish smokes the GM product. Right out of the box the Boss handles better than any of my 3 prior Vettes. As quick, no, but close. It's only 302 CI which isn't 427 CI. My 09 ZO6 was $85K MSRP, wasn't worth the additional $25K I paid for it over the Boss.
06-10-2012, 08:37 PM
#53
Drifting
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Wow bunch of haters here in others cars.
I've owned 3 Vettes, did that mean I had to buy another to remain a moderator here on the site? No! I have no intent of stepping down either.
Many of the moderators here no longer own a Vette(s.)
Original stockholders got the shaft. DC and the unions own the majority of GM now. The way it went down was illegal. So eff GM and our current admin.
Picked up the Boss 2 weeks ago. $45K MRSP. Fit and finish smokes the GM product. Right out of the box the Boss handles better than any of my 3 prior Vettes. As quick, no, but close. It's only 302 CI which isn't 427 CI. My 09 ZO6 was $85K MSRP, wasn't worth the additional $25K I paid for it over the Boss.
I've owned 3 Vettes, did that mean I had to buy another to remain a moderator here on the site? No! I have no intent of stepping down either.
Many of the moderators here no longer own a Vette(s.)
Original stockholders got the shaft. DC and the unions own the majority of GM now. The way it went down was illegal. So eff GM and our current admin.
Picked up the Boss 2 weeks ago. $45K MRSP. Fit and finish smokes the GM product. Right out of the box the Boss handles better than any of my 3 prior Vettes. As quick, no, but close. It's only 302 CI which isn't 427 CI. My 09 ZO6 was $85K MSRP, wasn't worth the additional $25K I paid for it over the Boss.
If it is your opinion that your new Boss handles better out of the box then an 09 Z06. Then forgive me if I discount all other opinions in this post as Ford fanboy rethoric.
06-10-2012, 08:58 PM
#54
Team Owner
You would be in the minority with that view. Jersey still has years of experience with Corvettes, as well as years of interacting with members on this forum, that you simply do not have(at least on the second part).
06-10-2012, 09:57 PM
#55
Team Owner
I for one believe a condition of being a moderator on car specific forum should include owning one. If you don't own a Vette and are one of the 'I'll never going to own another GM again' then why would you stick around?
If it is your opinion that your new Boss handles better out of the box then an 09 Z06. Then forgive me if I discount all other opinions in this post as Ford fanboy rethoric.
If it is your opinion that your new Boss handles better out of the box then an 09 Z06. Then forgive me if I discount all other opinions in this post as Ford fanboy rethoric.
I stick around to help those whom require it.
Ford fanboi rethoric, get a clue. I've only owned GM and foreign product all my life. This is the first Ford I've ever owned.
Foot meet azz.
06-11-2012, 12:11 AM
#56
Team Owner
but do you at least still like Corvettes?I mean, strictly from a logic/reasoning point of view, I would think that a moderator/administrator on a Corvette specific automobile message board would (should?) at least still be a Corvette enthusiast of some sort, no?
06-11-2012, 10:18 AM
#57
Drifting
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True, but not being a moderator doesn't mean he couldn't still interact as a member. To me it's like an officer of a motorcycle gang driving a scooter.
06-11-2012, 10:21 AM
#58
Drifting
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Sorry, I'm not going to honor your request. Nor are the many other moderators on this site who no longer own a Vette.
I stick around to help those whom require it.
Ford fanboi rethoric, get a clue. I've only owned GM and foreign product all my life. This is the first Ford I've ever owned.
Foot meet azz.
Thanks
I stick around to help those whom require it.
Ford fanboi rethoric, get a clue. I've only owned GM and foreign product all my life. This is the first Ford I've ever owned.
Foot meet azz.
Thanks
06-11-2012, 07:18 PM
#59
Le Mans Master
Anyone else shocked at the huge difference? I know they are not totally comparable vehicles, but the fun factor is nearly identical as far as fun to drive, fun to mod, etc. $60-65k for a nicely equipped C6, $40-48k for a loaded Mustang GT, or a Boss 302...and the options on the new Mustang are fantastic....such as the Track Pack, glass roof, side exhaust, etc. I've read all the reviews and concluded that 2013 Stang is a bargain, do you agree?
What's your point?
It's always been that differential. Yes, the Mustang is a fun car. I prefer the Corvette.And while we're at it, that $65,0000 C6 you yap about can probably be had for $55,000.
06-11-2012, 07:36 PM
#60
Le Mans Master
Borrowing is borrowing, and Ford was as effed up as all the others, including several foreign auto companies.