Ralph's revenge on ZR1
03-21-2013, 08:17 PM
#41
Le Mans Master
Lap times aren't any more conclusive than 1/4 mile times done on different days with different cars. They're simply the time that driver made it around the track in that particular car on that day. Too many variables to conclude anything more than the Viper TA and ZR1 appear to be about as evenly matched as can be. Sports car and track enthusiasts should praise and respect them both equally for achieving such high performance.
I just don't see why so many Corvette owners have such negative feelings about the Viper. As an impartial forum observer considering buying one or the other, Viper owners generally seem to be overwhelmingly enthusiastic about their cars, and respectful of other performance cars. Corvette owners...not so much.
Bruce
I just don't see why so many Corvette owners have such negative feelings about the Viper. As an impartial forum observer considering buying one or the other, Viper owners generally seem to be overwhelmingly enthusiastic about their cars, and respectful of other performance cars. Corvette owners...not so much.
Bruce
Viper owners are more generally enthusiastic about their cars, simply because it puts the driver back in controll.
Corvettes are great cars no doubt, but are getting so refined , it takes the enjoyment out of driving the car, while this may be great for your 60 year old senior, its not fun for somebody who is still young.
I had a ZR1 for almost a year, a c6 z06 for almost 2, my procharged boss, while more primitive and much less fined, always puts a bigger smile on my face.
The corvette people who don't like to think out of the box, have never been out of the box, they are not true car people, and certainly have never come close to testing half the limit of their cars, yet will quote you ,magazine times and comments all day long.
03-21-2013, 09:04 PM
#42
Heel & Toe
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Well thankfully there's no BS at track days, and owners are generally great high performance driving enthusiasts. I've met outstanding people from both camps...although the Vette drivers generally don't give the pass-by signal too willingly 
Maybe they don't like Supras either!
Maybe they don't like Supras either!
03-21-2013, 11:01 PM
#43
I think Ralph and Randy are okay. I heard Randy was a consultant to help sort out the car after the ZR1 challenge so there's probably no bad blood. Too much nobody knows, and likely serious Viper marketing spin going on to get too caught up in those kind of details, but I agree that comments seem disrespectful on the surface.
I'm on viperclub.org and yes, there's always going to be a few rabid nut cases in every group!
Bruce
I'm on viperclub.org and yes, there's always going to be a few rabid nut cases in every group!
Bruce
I think it's more than "a few" over at Viper Alley.
03-22-2013, 06:21 AM
#45
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Changing the subject some............ I read somewhere that the Viper's V10 was some reason not "DI friendly" and was why with everyone going to DI for better performance the Viper motor does not have it.
Any knowledge of this ?
Any knowledge of this ?
03-22-2013, 08:56 AM
#46
03-22-2013, 09:15 AM
#47
Melting Slicks
Am I the only one that's thrilled about this new Viper? Chevrolet will recognize the Viper's superior performance and that will push them even harder to improve the C7 Z06 and ZR1. Competition breeds a better product. Would it be sacrilegious to respect both cars for their abilities?
03-24-2013, 02:04 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
A lot of things and especially when they are "an agreement not to or else" are never going to appear in written agreement form that is the only real proof other than a tape that is still only hearsay
This is a copy and paste of what I saw reading Motor Authority when speaking of the new ACR due out next year
Word is that the car would come to market sooner, if tire-supplier Michelin would only sell its Pilot Sport Cup product to SRT. The Viper’s Pirelli tires don’t return the same level of performance, so SRT has requested that Pirelli develop a tire specifically for the Viper ACR, and that takes time.
As for why Michelin reportedly won’t sell its Pilot Sport Cup tires to SRT, the answer is simple: they’re delivered on the range-topping Corvette ZR1, and Michelin isn’t going to endanger its relationship with GM.
Like the previous Viper ACR, the new model isn’t expected to produce more horsepower (to the delight of aftermarket suppliers), but it will serve up track-ready brakes, an adjustable (but track-focused) suspension, functional aerodynamics and weight savings via the deletion of luxury items.
Developing tires is tricky business, so it’s hard to say when the new SRT Viper ACR will hit the market in 2014. The same can be said of price, which, we suppose, will be determined by how many trick parts the new Viper ACR uses.
This type of "common knowledge" is probably as close to "proof" as possible
This is a copy and paste of what I saw reading Motor Authority when speaking of the new ACR due out next year
Word is that the car would come to market sooner, if tire-supplier Michelin would only sell its Pilot Sport Cup product to SRT. The Viper’s Pirelli tires don’t return the same level of performance, so SRT has requested that Pirelli develop a tire specifically for the Viper ACR, and that takes time.
As for why Michelin reportedly won’t sell its Pilot Sport Cup tires to SRT, the answer is simple: they’re delivered on the range-topping Corvette ZR1, and Michelin isn’t going to endanger its relationship with GM.
Like the previous Viper ACR, the new model isn’t expected to produce more horsepower (to the delight of aftermarket suppliers), but it will serve up track-ready brakes, an adjustable (but track-focused) suspension, functional aerodynamics and weight savings via the deletion of luxury items.
Developing tires is tricky business, so it’s hard to say when the new SRT Viper ACR will hit the market in 2014. The same can be said of price, which, we suppose, will be determined by how many trick parts the new Viper ACR uses.
This type of "common knowledge" is probably as close to "proof" as possible
03-25-2013, 04:59 AM
#49
Word is that the car would come to market sooner, if tire-supplier Michelin would only sell its Pilot Sport Cup product to SRT. The Viper’s Pirelli tires don’t return the same level of performance, so SRT has requested that Pirelli develop a tire specifically for the Viper ACR, and that takes time.
As for why Michelin reportedly won’t sell its Pilot Sport Cup tires to SRT, the answer is simple: they’re delivered on the range-topping Corvette ZR1, and Michelin isn’t going to endanger its relationship with GM.
As for why Michelin reportedly won’t sell its Pilot Sport Cup tires to SRT, the answer is simple: they’re delivered on the range-topping Corvette ZR1, and Michelin isn’t going to endanger its relationship with GM.
That article fails to address a fundamental error in the logic: It would be dumb to prioritize a Cup tire for the SRT since by the time the SRT hits the market, the Cup is more or less made obsolete by the Cup 2 tire which is already hitting the market. And Trofeo Rs have been available to retailers for over a year already. Sounds like more 3rd hand rumor mongering as an excuse for why the ZR1 beat the Viper, probably emanating from the same dubious and disgruntled source.
03-25-2013, 04:48 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
And did Michelin endanger its relationship with Porsche? How about BMW (which also has an OEM fitment for the M3)? Which relationship did Michelin endanger by providing Cup tires concurrently to the GT2, GT3 RS, and Viper ACR?
That article fails to address a fundamental error in the logic: It would be dumb to prioritize a Cup tire for the SRT since by the time the SRT hits the market, the Cup is more or less made obsolete by the Cup 2 tire which is already hitting the market. And Trofeo Rs have been available to retailers for over a year already. Sounds like more 3rd hand rumor mongering as an excuse for why the ZR1 beat the Viper, probably emanating from the same dubious and disgruntled source.
That article fails to address a fundamental error in the logic: It would be dumb to prioritize a Cup tire for the SRT since by the time the SRT hits the market, the Cup is more or less made obsolete by the Cup 2 tire which is already hitting the market. And Trofeo Rs have been available to retailers for over a year already. Sounds like more 3rd hand rumor mongering as an excuse for why the ZR1 beat the Viper, probably emanating from the same dubious and disgruntled source.
Also it is not any new knews that the viper that originally lost to the ZR1 was a preproduction car, it didn't matter as loss is a loss, SRT should have known better, regardless all that doesn't mean a darn thing anymore,,the ZR1 is a marvelous car, but is now extinct , coming in second at Laguna and the superbowl of tracks(the ring) is very respectable from such a non race riding comfortable vehicle..
03-25-2013, 08:17 PM
#51
03-26-2013, 08:37 AM
#52
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
03-26-2013, 08:57 AM
#53
Safety Car
Am I the only one who found it odd that SRT ran a lap with slicks as opposed to using MPSC tires after the TA set the record? Obviously there is something we don't know otherwise they would have run a lap with the cups. Either way it is 1000% fair to say the TA would have run a faster time with cups which only means that the ZR1 time will soon be destroyed by the ACR and the TA if they put cups on it.
03-26-2013, 09:58 AM
#54
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Am I the only one who found it odd that SRT ran a lap with slicks as opposed to using MPSC tires after the TA set the record? Obviously there is something we don't know otherwise they would have run a lap with the cups. Either way it is 1000% fair to say the TA would have run a faster time with cups which only means that the ZR1 time will soon be destroyed by the ACR and the TA if they put cups on it.
03-26-2013, 11:55 AM
#56
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Only an assumption (I hate that word) on my part, but I think if they were available in the tire size SRT has chosen for the Viper, we would hear of then being used on a track test for a heads-up comparison between the two cars
03-26-2013, 12:41 PM
#57
Safety Car
Unless as some have said Michelin has some sort of exclusive deal with GM although I highly doubt that. Or maybe another reason is that SRT (being Fiat/Italian) has an exclusive deal with Pirelli.
03-26-2013, 01:09 PM
#58
A lot of things and especially when they are "an agreement not to or else" are never going to appear in written agreement form that is the only real proof other than a tape that is still only hearsay
This is a copy and paste of what I saw reading Motor Authority when speaking of the new ACR due out next year
Word is that the car would come to market sooner, if tire-supplier Michelin would only sell its Pilot Sport Cup product to SRT. The Viper’s Pirelli tires don’t return the same level of performance, so SRT has requested that Pirelli develop a tire specifically for the Viper ACR, and that takes time.
As for why Michelin reportedly won’t sell its Pilot Sport Cup tires to SRT, the answer is simple: they’re delivered on the range-topping Corvette ZR1, and Michelin isn’t going to endanger its relationship with GM.
Like the previous Viper ACR, the new model isn’t expected to produce more horsepower (to the delight of aftermarket suppliers), but it will serve up track-ready brakes, an adjustable (but track-focused) suspension, functional aerodynamics and weight savings via the deletion of luxury items.
Developing tires is tricky business, so it’s hard to say when the new SRT Viper ACR will hit the market in 2014. The same can be said of price, which, we suppose, will be determined by how many trick parts the new Viper ACR uses.
This type of "common knowledge" is probably as close to "proof" as possible
This is a copy and paste of what I saw reading Motor Authority when speaking of the new ACR due out next year
Word is that the car would come to market sooner, if tire-supplier Michelin would only sell its Pilot Sport Cup product to SRT. The Viper’s Pirelli tires don’t return the same level of performance, so SRT has requested that Pirelli develop a tire specifically for the Viper ACR, and that takes time.
As for why Michelin reportedly won’t sell its Pilot Sport Cup tires to SRT, the answer is simple: they’re delivered on the range-topping Corvette ZR1, and Michelin isn’t going to endanger its relationship with GM.
Like the previous Viper ACR, the new model isn’t expected to produce more horsepower (to the delight of aftermarket suppliers), but it will serve up track-ready brakes, an adjustable (but track-focused) suspension, functional aerodynamics and weight savings via the deletion of luxury items.
Developing tires is tricky business, so it’s hard to say when the new SRT Viper ACR will hit the market in 2014. The same can be said of price, which, we suppose, will be determined by how many trick parts the new Viper ACR uses.
This type of "common knowledge" is probably as close to "proof" as possible
03-26-2013, 01:46 PM
#59
At 345mm, the Cup tire for the Viper ACR is still nominally 10mm wider than the ZR1's Cups, and they aren't compromised by a runflat design. The SRT's Corsas are 20mm wider.
*Here is the SLS Black Series, being released this summer, on Cup 2 tires at the LA Auto Show in 2012:
03-26-2013, 02:02 PM
#60
