Shurshot

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._srt_viper_ta/

Viper comes out with a new model that squeaks by the ZR1

rob62

Is anyone really surprised? As I've said before the new viper has to get it's s#^$t together or it will go the way of the dinosaurs. Viper boys,enjoy it while you can.

ATC399

Viper comes out with a new model that squeaks by the ZR1.

Shurshot

Yes, it is a "just barely" and when you consider the performance capability of a PDE optioned ZR1, it takes a lot just to hang with it. That being said the Viper's performance was accomplished with a much "lesser tire" than what comes on a PDE ZR1 car.

The increase was all due to a softening of the rear suspension and a more robust front brake.

Where IMO the new C7 corvette ZR1 replacement will continue to rule over the competition is in its "street/strip comfort and ability" in one package getting decent millage......... something IMO the Viper is not ready to compete with.

Albeit it is a very "cool" and American made car that all American car enthusiasts can be proud of

VeryUnoriginal

Even though I'm more of a Corvette fan, I still like the Vipers. Even if it still does want to brutally murder you when you're behind the wheel. But that's what makes a car fun, right?

But I don't understand why people argue which is better?


I'd have both if I could.

NytmereZ

That was done on purpose, its still pretty much the base model, even still has the all season tires on it, the ACR will have more HP and some real tires on it.
Out of the past15 plus years, the vette has a total of maybe 3 months where it has outperformed viper, hence all the locked threads in the ZR1 section , that weren't locked a couple of months ago

Poor sports, not even any excuses from fanboys this time, as the ZR1 had the supposed better chassis , and track tires on it vs all season tIres, wait and see which tires the ACR will be running

It's funny how these threads are trying to be buried

Big Dan 427

I agree with you, it's funny how all the other threads regarding the Z beating the "mule" Viper at LS were allowed to be left open and discussed. Now the Z gets spanked with all season tires and the threads get locked, pretty pitiful. And all the trash talkers have seemingly vanished, it's a shame b/c the ZR1 is a bad *** car too. I love a good debate, their is nothing wrong with taking pride in something but it should go both ways.

racerns

I guess I will play since no one else will.

I personally think the discussion should be allowed in ZR1 section. I am not a mod but my guess is that if SRT had some ***** and had brought a ZR1 back out to test with the TA then these threads would be allowed in the ZR1 section since a ZR1 had been tested. The fact is that SRT could not risk the chance that on this different day with different track condtions that the ZR1 might run an even faster time. They knew they were close and it was much safer for them to just go after a time then go head to head. Who knows maybe the ZR1 would have run slower but they couldn't take that chance.

You guys are hillarious with this "all season tire" crap. While the Zero Corsa has more grooving for wet weather than the PSC it is not an "all season tire" It has the same cautions as the PSC when it comes to wet and cold weather.
Need I remind you that at the first test both cars posted a 1.08g skid pad result and Corsa has a lower tread wear rating. I would still pick the PCS over the Corsas for dry track use but the difference is not this wide expanse that you guys are making it out to be.

And since when is a .08 sec lap time difference a spanking? At the start/ finsh line the ZR1 would be ~1/2 car behind (using the best lap times).

Oh and I bet Nytmere will call me the Biggest ZR1 fanboi.

LEE427

I think what we are witnessing is the "PEAK" out of these performance street cars & street performance tires. Meaning that the next C7 ZR1 IF quicker won't be much. Possibly splitting hairs..

This is what I like about competition. I love owning both..

Guibo

Quite right. PZero Nero would be the all-season tires from Pirelli. Not Corsas. Additionally, the ZR1's tires will have some level of compromise built in for runflat capability.

Shurshot

i see no reason for SRT to need bring a ZR1 to be tested with their new TA model after having supplied a pre-pruduction model to be tested up against the latest and best of the ZR1 cars....... and I admit to being pro-vette

I never said anything about the Corsa being an all season tire but instead mentioned that it was a"lesser tire" than what the ZR1 used. I still say that even with taking into consideration Guibo's contribution to the conversation about the sport cups being "run flat" tires.

racerns

No you didn't say it was all season, that was the viper guys. You did say it was a much "lesser tire" and that I do not agree with. Everyone was pointing to the tires after the first test but in reality it was the suspenstion tuning, brakes, aero that made the difference. The fact that the Corsa can put down similar skid pad numbers in my mind makes it a slightly "lesser tire".

Also, yes it was a pre-production model that was tested but I have not seen anything to say that the production GTS w/ track pack will be any different than what was tested. This TA option was brought forward in production just because the GTS was being beat by the ZR1 in comparison test. I think it was orginally going to be a 2014 option.

Big Dan 427

I said the "all season" comment which was mainly stated b/c it is a much better wet weather tire. Also with Fiat being Italian I'd guess that had something to do with Pirelli product ending up on the snake, if I had to guess Ralph would have wanted cups or maybe they are just saving them for the ACR.

Also Randy made it very clear that the car that ran against the ZR1 head to head was kind of a "parts shelf" car, not a production model. He raved about how much better this car was. And lastly we keep forgetting that the GM big boy is the Z, SRT's big boy is the ACR which we all know is going to smash the TA's time. Thoughts guys?

Guibo

Ralph probably wouldn't need Cups, with Trofeo Rs in the lineup.
Randy raved how much better the car was, which shoots down Ralph's prior assertion that it was Randy who was at fault for the Viper's previous lower performance. It had to do with the aero, the suspension, and the brakes.
It's good to see one does not need such an extreme vehicle to get these lap times, as we saw in the last ACR. The new C7 is said to be much more rigid, giving clearer feedback, inspiring more confidence. If it has new Cups, it will most likely be the next generation, Cup 2, as seen on the 918 and SLS Black Series. There have been reports by people who seriously track them that the magnetic shocks in the ZR1/Z07 are prone to overheating. And this is another concession the ZR1 makes to everyday comfort relative to the Viper. From a total product development standpoint, I'm more interested in seeing how these cars compare on real-world roads. If the next ACR is as extreme as the last (de-contented with the Hardcore Package, hard ride, aero add-ons that reduce practicality), then we might just see a repeat of the generation before: ACR faster on the track, but the ZR1 winning in the showroom.

Big Dan 427

You have to remember Guibo, Dodge never built more than a few ACR's per year, GM built an awful lot of ZR's up until 2013. My 2009 was 1 of 300 or so and 1 of 3 in Viper Blue. I like the fact that they build limited product and add "specialty" cars such as the 1 of 33 Orange TA etc.

Your comment about Ralph has unanswered questions that we don't know about. He said Randy "always" was timid in the Viper, maybe it was what caused Randy to hang it out in the TA. There is more to that story than we know IMO.

racerns

Randy said he "had to work hard" to get the new record in the TA. I wonder how many laps he took before he broke the record? I know the he was able to get the ZR1 time in only 5 laps.

Guibo

They only build that few because they have no better option, at that price. GM builds more because they can sell more. I get the appeal of exclusivity. But you can bet that given a choice between exclusivity and being able to build (and sell) hundreds of thousands of these things at these prices, Dodge/GM would jump on that opportunity at the drop of a hat. Not even Ferrari ignores the profits of higher sales against the prestige of exclusivity.
Randy was always timid in the Viper? His time in the ACR was only 1.2s slower than Dodge's factory pilot, who I'm betting didn't have the constraint of having to test 9 other cars that very same day. Obviously Randy isn't so timid that SRT wouldn't go to Motor Trend to have him re-test the car after they made changes. If Randy was the problem, then they should have left the car alone and re-tested with their own factory pilot. And if they really want a legit test, invite GM to bring along the ZR1 with Mero or Heinricy for a true same-day, same-conditions test.

Big Dan 427

@ racers, I wouldn't have expected him to be flossing his teeth...lol. There is no such thing as sunday driving when trying to get the most out of a car. Not sure how many laps he ran, my guess would just be a handful though, these guys know pretty quickly if they've gotten it all out of the car, even I know that after a few laps.

@ guibo, Ralph said that not me. He mentioned that Randy has always struggled in the snake and has questioned his getting everything out of the car. As for exclusivity, GM has always flooded the market which does not bode well for resale, look at a 2010 ZR1 that can be had fo 80k or so wthat had a 125k sticker, a 2010 ACR with a 110k sticker is worth more money than the ZR.

Guibo

And why would Ralph say that? The answer is clear: The Viper was beaten. If Randy did not get everything out of the Viper, that doesn't really matter because similar could be said of his laps in the ZR1. Hell, I've seen 1.2 seconds between teammates in Formula One qualifying lapping mere seconds apart.
Resale values on used cars doesn't tell us much about profitability. Obviously, the rarer car can hold values better, but that has little impact on the profitability of a car (aside from the fact that GM has a much larger pool of Corvette owners to draw on for parts and service). Modern Ferraris don't hold value like they used to, but Ferrari seems not to care too much. They will continue to escalate production to meet demand (despite a claim years ago that they would not exceed 3500/yr; they doubled that last year). It would be suicidal for them not to. Just look at the direction the new Viper has taken compared to the old one: broader appeal leads to more sales leads to higher rate of sustainability.

SLO VETTE

badass car.

that said i'd take a zr1 and cruise in comfort all day or just do daily driving in exchange for those tenths or so of faster viper lap times.

unless i was loaded, in which case i'd have the viper just for the helluvit.