Cadillac CT6-V Blackwing engine
09-22-2018, 07:04 AM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Cadillac CT6-V Blackwing engine
Not sure how new this information is, but was just reading about the new Cadillac CT6-V bi-turbo V8 engine and thought this might be a really nice offering in the C8. Very similar design to the Mercedes AMG 4.0 bi-turbo V8 in my C63S. Lightweight. Great torque. Hot-intake design with the turbos placed in the intake V area makes it super responsive.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...blackwing/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...blackwing/amp/
09-22-2018, 09:15 AM
#2
Race Director
No reason for a hot-V motor in a mid-engine. The responsiveness issue is not a factor of the Hot-V config, as the charge is still sent forward, through intercooler(s), and then intake. Piping can be done same length on a proper design turbo car with turbos right off side exhaust manifolds. All aids in cooling in a mid engine design, as it is harder to get the air moving above the motor, just behind the firewall.
09-22-2018, 09:17 AM
#3
Team Owner
Other than the name of the engine, the author has just rehashed info that was released months ago.
09-22-2018, 11:17 AM
#4
I like the rehash because there is a lot more to learn yet about this GM engine series. I learned that the overhead cam heads are being produced by Cosworth’s new plant in Ypsilanti Michigan and the engine will be assembled in the Bolling Green plant.
Also, the current State of the Art for turboed Certified engines is 187 HP per Liter.(MB 2.0L at 375 HP). If we use this as a maximum HP guide the 4.2L TT V8 can make 780 HP and Cadillac lists two engines at 500HP and 550HP. Additionally, GM lists a 5.5L TT V8 Hot V which should be able to make over 1000 HP. So where may they use it? In a truck? Or new ME Corvette? I want one.
Jim
Also, the current State of the Art for turboed Certified engines is 187 HP per Liter.(MB 2.0L at 375 HP). If we use this as a maximum HP guide the 4.2L TT V8 can make 780 HP and Cadillac lists two engines at 500HP and 550HP. Additionally, GM lists a 5.5L TT V8 Hot V which should be able to make over 1000 HP. So where may they use it? In a truck? Or new ME Corvette? I want one.
Jim
09-22-2018, 11:31 AM
#5
Advanced
Thread Starter
For the $100’s millions being invested in this engine, GM has to have bigger plans for it than Cadillac.
And, the beauty of a Hot-V design in a mid-engine car is packaging, great airflow to/over the turbochargers (although they have water jackets for cooling) and everything is in close proximity to the intercoolers.
So, I guess we’ll see where the engine ends up.
And, the beauty of a Hot-V design in a mid-engine car is packaging, great airflow to/over the turbochargers (although they have water jackets for cooling) and everything is in close proximity to the intercoolers.
So, I guess we’ll see where the engine ends up.
09-22-2018, 02:31 PM
#6
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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I like the rehash because there is a lot more to learn yet about this GM engine series. I learned that the overhead cam heads are being produced by Cosworth’s new plant in Ypsilanti Michigan and the engine will be assembled in the Bolling Green plant.
Also, the current State of the Art for turboed Certified engines is 187 HP per Liter.(MB 2.0L at 375 HP). If we use this as a maximum HP guide the 4.2L TT V8 can make 780 HP and Cadillac lists two engines at 500HP and 550HP. Additionally, GM lists a 5.5L TT V8 Hot V which should be able to make over 1000 HP. So where may they use it? In a truck? Or new ME Corvette? I want one.
Jim
Also, the current State of the Art for turboed Certified engines is 187 HP per Liter.(MB 2.0L at 375 HP). If we use this as a maximum HP guide the 4.2L TT V8 can make 780 HP and Cadillac lists two engines at 500HP and 550HP. Additionally, GM lists a 5.5L TT V8 Hot V which should be able to make over 1000 HP. So where may they use it? In a truck? Or new ME Corvette? I want one.
Jim
Last edited by JerryU; 09-22-2018 at 04:01 PM.
09-22-2018, 02:59 PM
#7
Safety Car
No reason for a hot-V motor in a mid-engine. The responsiveness issue is not a factor of the Hot-V config, as the charge is still sent forward, through intercooler(s), and then intake. Piping can be done same length on a proper design turbo car with turbos right off side exhaust manifolds. All aids in cooling in a mid engine design, as it is harder to get the air moving above the motor, just behind the firewall.
A nightmare in the making. Only the Germans can be this stupid. Oh, wait a moment, this is going into a Cadillac.
Last edited by Shaka; 09-22-2018 at 03:01 PM.
09-22-2018, 03:07 PM
#8
Team Owner
I like the rehash because there is a lot more to learn yet about this GM engine series. I learned that the overhead cam heads are being produced by Cosworth’s new plant in Ypsilanti Michigan and the engine will be assembled in the Bolling Green plant.
Also, the current State of the Art for turboed Certified engines is 187 HP per Liter.(MB 2.0L at 375 HP). If we use this as a maximum HP guide the 4.2L TT V8 can make 780 HP and Cadillac lists two engines at 500HP and 550HP. Additionally, GM lists a 5.5L TT V8 Hot V which should be able to make over 1000 HP. So where may they use it? In a truck? Or new ME Corvette? I want one.
Jim
Also, the current State of the Art for turboed Certified engines is 187 HP per Liter.(MB 2.0L at 375 HP). If we use this as a maximum HP guide the 4.2L TT V8 can make 780 HP and Cadillac lists two engines at 500HP and 550HP. Additionally, GM lists a 5.5L TT V8 Hot V which should be able to make over 1000 HP. So where may they use it? In a truck? Or new ME Corvette? I want one.
Jim
The mid-engine CAD drawings show a engine/transaxle cradle designed for a wide engine with the turbo's located on each side of the engine, not a HOT-V with the turbos located in the valley between the heads. In fact another CAD drawing actually shows a wide V8 with the turbo's located on each side of the engine on that engine/transaxle cradle.
It's possible that when the Cadillac HOT-V engine was designed and money approved for R&D and tooling, that GM was(is?) planning on a Cadillac version of the mid engine sports car, or maybe Cadillac is planning on a "hot rod" SUV to counter the "hot rod" SUV's from Porsche, M-B, BMW etc. I agree that having the engine designed only for a 4 door sedan doesn't make sense.
I believe that Cadillac is trying to distance itself from Chevrolet to enable itself to lose the "rebadged Chevrolet" image. Difficult to gain the "status" of M-B, etc if people continue to associate Cadillac with Chevrolet. Cadillac continuing to share engines with Chevrolet isn't going to improve Cadillac's image.
It's possible that when the Cadillac HOT-V engine was designed and money approved for R&D and tooling, that GM was(is?) planning on a Cadillac version of the mid engine sports car, or maybe Cadillac is planning on a "hot rod" SUV to counter the "hot rod" SUV's from Porsche, M-B, BMW etc. I agree that having the engine designed only for a 4 door sedan doesn't make sense.
I believe that Cadillac is trying to distance itself from Chevrolet to enable itself to lose the "rebadged Chevrolet" image. Difficult to gain the "status" of M-B, etc if people continue to associate Cadillac with Chevrolet. Cadillac continuing to share engines with Chevrolet isn't going to improve Cadillac's image.
09-22-2018, 03:14 PM
#9
Team Owner
A nightmare in the making. Only the Germans can be this stupid. Oh, wait a moment, this is going into a Cadillac.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cRU12EpsVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cRU12EpsVI
If the mid-engine Corvette is going to have a retractable hardtop version, then I'm guessing that space above the engine will be a premium(and the less heat the better) for a compartment to house the hardtop when retracted. I would think that that would be a strong case for an engine design that has the turbo's mounted down low on each side of the engine, and not sitting on top of the engine.
Last edited by JoesC5; 09-22-2018 at 03:17 PM.
09-22-2018, 04:05 PM
#10
Safety Car
The AMG GT is not a "mid-engine" sports car, but a front engine car. The only car that Cadillac has said at this time that will have the HOT-V V8 engine is the CTC6 which also is a front engine vehicle.
If the mid-engine Corvette is going to have a retractable hardtop version, then I'm guessing that space above the engine will be a premium(and the less heat the better) for a compartment to house the hardtop when retracted. I would think that that would be a strong case for an engine design that has the turbo's mounted down low on each side of the engine, and not sitting on top of the engine.
If the mid-engine Corvette is going to have a retractable hardtop version, then I'm guessing that space above the engine will be a premium(and the less heat the better) for a compartment to house the hardtop when retracted. I would think that that would be a strong case for an engine design that has the turbo's mounted down low on each side of the engine, and not sitting on top of the engine.
09-22-2018, 04:09 PM
#11
A nightmare in the making. Only the Germans can be this stupid. Oh, wait a moment, this is going into a Cadillac.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cRU12EpsVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cRU12EpsVI
09-22-2018, 04:19 PM
#12
Team Owner
Corvette has NEVER had a production turbo'd engine(which is what we are talking about, isn't it). The intercooler on the supercharged Corvettes is placed on top of the supercharger housing because the compressed air flows upward from the supercharger into the intercooler, makes a 180 and flows downward through the bricks into the heads. The hot exhaust gasses on a supercharged Corvette NEVER comes near the top of the engine, as it does on a HOT-V turbo engine like the AMG GT.
Now my Mercedes has a roots supercharger(The Corvette also has a roots supercharger), but it has an air to air intercooler, that is located in front of the engine coolant radiator, The hot exhaust gasses on my Mercedes NEVER come near the top of the engine.
You brought up the AMG GT with it's HOT-V engine as if it was pertinent to the mid engine Corvette application. I pointed out that the AMG GT HOT-V engine application is nothing like what will be found in the mid-engine Corvette, especially since it appears the mid-engine Corvette will have a retractable hardtop, that has to be stored in a compartment above the engine.
Now my Mercedes has a roots supercharger(The Corvette also has a roots supercharger), but it has an air to air intercooler, that is located in front of the engine coolant radiator, The hot exhaust gasses on my Mercedes NEVER come near the top of the engine.
You brought up the AMG GT with it's HOT-V engine as if it was pertinent to the mid engine Corvette application. I pointed out that the AMG GT HOT-V engine application is nothing like what will be found in the mid-engine Corvette, especially since it appears the mid-engine Corvette will have a retractable hardtop, that has to be stored in a compartment above the engine.
09-25-2018, 06:02 PM
#14
Race Director
GM has had nothing but success with DOHC V9s. Remember the Northstar? This Northstar 2 now has the added benefit of direct injection and turbochargers! The Caddy dealer network is probably hiring mechanics like crazy right now...
Also, this engine was supposed to be for a V sport model. They then upgraded it to v level, despite making 50hp more than the base engine. The only reason to do that is of 550hp is the limit for this engine to be moderately reliable.
It's a moot point anyways, GM sells virtually no sedans anymore. They offer a lot, but nobody buys. This will likely be in the mid engine caddy that isnt a C8, and I would expect to see it in a next gen Escalade, or whatever 3 row crossover companion to the Escalade is introduced.
Also, this engine was supposed to be for a V sport model. They then upgraded it to v level, despite making 50hp more than the base engine. The only reason to do that is of 550hp is the limit for this engine to be moderately reliable.
It's a moot point anyways, GM sells virtually no sedans anymore. They offer a lot, but nobody buys. This will likely be in the mid engine caddy that isnt a C8, and I would expect to see it in a next gen Escalade, or whatever 3 row crossover companion to the Escalade is introduced.