Michael A

"The AAA Automotive Research Center in Southern California found that the average range of an electric car dropped 57% in very cold weather – at 20 degrees Fahrenheit – and by 33% in extreme heat, a temperature of 95 degrees."

95 degrees is "extreme heat"?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...icles/6622979/

No thank you.

jefnvk

The other half to the "batteries will be too expensive to replace"? Electric motors are dead simple. Nowhere near the complexity of an ICE, nowhere near the number of moving parts to break, nowhere near the lubrication and cooling and fueling fluids required to leak.

No more blown head gaskets. No more leaky rear mains. No more coolant dumping over an Optispark and disabling the whole thing. No more dropping 25 gallon fuel tanks you literally just filled up from underneath an SUV to swap out a fuel pump that went bad. No more stuck thermostats. No more plugged heater cores. DO I need to go on? The mechanical complexity you eliminate is massive.

punky

"How can competition bring down cost"? Hard to believe that anyone that has been educated beyond the 8th grade would be so ignorant about one of the most basic concepts in economics. Your post is absolutely wrong and flatly laughable.

NY09C6

Shaka

Obviously you don't know the futures and commodity markets. Oh yeah, the ****** have cornered this market. You also don't know anything about crony capitalism. Do you know the story behind ethanol in your gas? Just follow the money. The joke is on you. Read Michael A's post again, slowly. Go to where ever you got your education and ask for your school fees back.

punky

Ah Yes! It must be "collusion". Got love the guys this mindset. EVs are here Dude and there will be more of them on thee road with each passing day. Every major international car manufacturer will be bringing a fully electric vehicle to market in the very near future and the per unit cost to the end user will drop, There is absolutely no doubt about any of that. It is actually entertaining to watch the Cro-magnons resist even the mere thought of EVs permeating the automotive world. The same stupidity existed when the notion of a PC in every home was pondered. Technology changes our world whether some of the knuckle heads like it or not.

jefnvk

mschuyler

Michael A

I welcome disagreement and thoughtful discussion. However, if you can't discuss the issues and provide supporting evidence, and instead resort to name calling and insults, then you go on my Ignore List. Congratulations! Don't bother responding. I won't see it.

mschuyler

Here's an eye-opening video on fuel cells. Tl;Dr They won't work for "replacing" batteries.

Michael A

Funny you should mention this. I was reading some reports last night on the impact of electric vehicle battery production increases on the raw material supply markets. Currently, most of the cobalt in lithium ion batteries comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo, a country with political instability and a history of human rights violations, including using child labor to mine cobalt. Congo is expected to cut production, and the price of cobalt has gone up. As prices have gone up, new suppliers of cobalt have been induced into the market, but the ramp up is expected to be gradual.

JoesC5

I posted that exact information many months ago. The EV lovers just ignored it, or started throwing insults my way because they could not defend it.

I said that we did not want to let the Congo hold us captive, because they had something we needed to maintain our economy..

Remember back in the 1970's, when we started storing crude oil that we imported, underground, as a reserve, so we would not be held captive in case the Middle east decided to shut us off, for any reason..

NY09C6

jefnvk

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/26/...oline-engines/
https://af.reuters.com/article/commo.../idAFL8N1WP2DI
https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankah.../#297048932ff0
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ele...sales-by-2030/

Just a couple articles to get you started.

Considering that my decade old daily driver doesn't even have equipment that is mandated on new cars today, I fail to understand why people think automotive won't be radically different ten years from now than it is today.

sunsalem

This thread needs to be closed.
Whenever the subject of EVs is brought up nastiness erupts on this forum.
Name calling, political POVs, and the rest.
Guys, let's get back to discussing the C8...

NY09C6

jefnvk

Eh, didn't go far enough back the argument thread. I won't disagree that five years may be a bit aggressive, but it still won't be too long. At least one OEM has already committed to manufacturing all new vehicles with at least hybrid tech and discontinuing ICE engines when the current platforms end, and the numbers of platforms from everyone else that are offered hybrid or EV only is only going to continue to rise. People can scream and shout, like they did about airbags, ABS, stability control, backup cameras, and such, but it is coming.

JoesC5

It appears that VW is the most aggressive auto manufacturer about dipping their toes into the water regarding EV's. The best article I have read is https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating...pla-1829257860

Some cliff notes:

1million EV's annually starting in 2025, manufactured in 16 "e-locations" around the world with one in the USA by 2022. Subcompact first starting at $23,000.

First to be sold in China, then in Europe, and then in the USA

In 2025, 50% of the 1,000,000 annual EV's will be sold in China(and most built in China), with 30-40% being sold in Europe and 10-20% sold in the USA(100,000 to 200,000 out of 17+ million cars sold in the USA annually)

the VW EV will be available with either a 48 kWh battery(175 mile range), 62 kWh battery or a 82 kWh battery(300 mile range).

Compare that to the Tesla 3 mid range(62kWh) with it's 264 mile range, or the Model 3 extended range(74 kWh) with it's 310 mile range.

And the Bolt(60 kWh with it's 238 mile range and the Leaf(40 kWh) with it's 151 mile range or the Leaf(60 kWh) with it's225 mile range.

VW's charging 48 kWh and 62 kWh at 100 kW, or the VW 82 kWh at 125 kW that takes 30 minutes to charge to 80%..

Now take those miles of range listed above for the VW EV and multiply by 80% to get a real world range of driving.

I sure don't see anything revolutionary in the VW EV's engineering during the next 6 years. No 600 mile range that can be charged in 10 minutes in a $23,000 EV because of so-called new battery technology..

VW is counting on Electrify America to provide the 484 charging locations in the USA to provide the infrastructure to charge those VW EV's when you leave home.

Look at the map in the article I linked on the charging stations. As usual anytime the EV is discussed, the true facts are not disclosed. On the sidebar of the map it says that stations are located 70 miles apart on average and no more than 120 miles maximum. That's a bunch of crap. They are implying that you can travel any direction and never have to drive further than 120 miles to the next charging location.

I live in Springfield, MO. If I want to drive to Little Rock, AR, it is 237 miles between their charging locations. Or drive to Wichita, then it's 277 miles to their next charging location. That is true all over the USA. With a 80% charge(so I don't damage the battery), the range of that NEW VW EV with 48 kWh battery is 140 miles. I'll be up **** creek, trying to find that magical charger between Springfield, MO and Little Rock at that 140 mile marker. Then, if it's cold or hot, further reduce that range. **** that, when I can get in my ICE Mercedes or Z06 and drive 450 miles IN ANY DIRECTION before needing gas

Not everyone lives next to a major Interstate highway where Electrify America plans to install most of those chargers(by looking at their map) and then ONLY drives on those Interstate highways all the way to their destination.

JerriVette

Michael A

I recall that it was predicted that oil would run out by the year 2000. The V8 engine was supposed to be dead long before that. It's now 2019, and none of it came true.

There are few things to work out before consumers will flock to electrics, some of which I have already pointed out.

1) Starting the battery electric car when it is -20F out.
2) Staying warm without the battery going dead.
3) Charging in five minutes or less.
4) How to recycle batteries.
5) How to charge battery electric cars at night without fossil fuels.
6) How to upgrade the electric grid.
7) How to keep range from excessively dropping when driving at 75 mph.
8) How to keep range from excessively dropping when using the air conditioning.
9) Charging a battery at -20 F.
10) How to explain to your family that you have to stop at the charging station for an hour on the way to grandma's house. And then do it again on the way home.
11) How to explain to your family that they have to bundle up, because you can 't use the cabin heater, and make it to your destination without stopping to charge.
12) How to build an electric C8 that doesn't weigh 5000 pounds.
13) How to build an electric C8 where the battery isn't dead in 15 minutes of track use.
14) How to build an electric C8 where the battery doesn't overheat in 15 minutes of track use.
15) How to build an electric C8 where the battery isn't dead before you get to the top of a mountain road while driving in a spirited manner.
16) How to build an electric car that isn't ready for the junkyard after eight to ten years or 100,000 miles, because the cost to replace the failed battery is more than the value of the car after the battery is replaced.
17) How to tow trailers when there is so little energy in the battery.

It's really easy to say "Ban internal combustion engines. Make all cars electric.", but it much harder to make that a practical reality and build cars people actually want to buy in other than specialty car volumes. There is a lot of work to do. If the government forces these cars on the public before the are fully developed, it's going to look like Cuba around here.

"Tesla Ramped Up Production in 2018, But Analysts Say Demand May Be Slowing"

https://www.inc.com/associated-press...e-slowing.html