Very interesting Camaro news given the Corvette going mid-engine
06-25-2019, 09:55 PM
#21
Safety Car
I'm thinking Camaro can't outlive it's stigma, they've figured that out, no reason to keep it in a CAFE world if it can't move into the territory once occupied by Corvette. Think about it, a ZL1 is a great car that can beat up those sitting at double the MSRP but they're sitting on lots and being discounted; people will buy a cheap Camaro but start asking a little money for it and they'll buy something else. When you can only have a small number of gas guzzling V8s you can't afford to squander resources on one people won't buy because the nameplate can't outlive it's wife-beater with a mullet stigma.
06-25-2019, 10:55 PM
#22
Race Director
GM does this every time with the F body. They did it with the Fiero, too. GM builds a sporty car, and then they don't update it. The 6th Gen Camaro from the public's standpoint looks identical to the 5th Gen. It has the same visibility problems. The same body style. We are now ten years into this car, and GM wonders why it is not selling well. Duh! Look at the Corvette sales. Same thing. No updates since the release, Sales drop.
Before someone says, "Look at the Challenger. It looks the same, and sales are going up." Yes, but Dodge keeps updating the car. There's a new engine almost every year, and new models every year. Ford updates their Mustang all the time, too. GM? Nope. Stupid.
I can pretty much guarantee that the C8 will come out in 2020, and the base C8 will be the same in 2027 and GM will again be wondering why sales are down.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
Before someone says, "Look at the Challenger. It looks the same, and sales are going up." Yes, but Dodge keeps updating the car. There's a new engine almost every year, and new models every year. Ford updates their Mustang all the time, too. GM? Nope. Stupid.
I can pretty much guarantee that the C8 will come out in 2020, and the base C8 will be the same in 2027 and GM will again be wondering why sales are down.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
GM got away with MURDER on the 5th gen Camaro. Ridiculous visibility, beyond crappy interior, heavy, etc...BUT, there was enough pent up demand that it sold great, no doubt to many guys that wanted another Camaro plus a pile of folks that didn't want a Mustang.
Then comes the 6th gen...and it looks basically the same, has the same laughable visibility, has a new but equally crappy interior, but it did lose some weight.
IMO, the Camaro's ergonomic issues along with interior quality are what is killing the car. GM continues to come out with parts bin specials that are actually pretty cool. But after 10 years, GM hasn't solved the car's BIGGEST failings and now GM is paying for it.
Last edited by jimmyb; 06-25-2019 at 11:00 PM.
06-26-2019, 06:14 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
Agree almost 100%!
GM got away with MURDER on the 5th gen Camaro. Ridiculous visibility, beyond crappy interior, heavy, etc...BUT, there was enough pent up demand that it sold great, no doubt to many guys that wanted another Camaro plus a pile of folks that didn't want a Mustang.
Then comes the 6th gen...and it looks basically the same, has the same laughable visibility, has a new but equally crappy interior, but it did lose some weight.
IMO, the Camaro's ergonomic issues along with interior quality are what is killing the car. GM continues to come out with parts bin specials that are actually pretty cool. But after 10 years, GM hasn't solved the car's BIGGEST failings and now GM is paying for it.
GM got away with MURDER on the 5th gen Camaro. Ridiculous visibility, beyond crappy interior, heavy, etc...BUT, there was enough pent up demand that it sold great, no doubt to many guys that wanted another Camaro plus a pile of folks that didn't want a Mustang.
Then comes the 6th gen...and it looks basically the same, has the same laughable visibility, has a new but equally crappy interior, but it did lose some weight.
IMO, the Camaro's ergonomic issues along with interior quality are what is killing the car. GM continues to come out with parts bin specials that are actually pretty cool. But after 10 years, GM hasn't solved the car's BIGGEST failings and now GM is paying for it.
the charger and mustang weren't great either but they're "better". The only reason fiat still sells cars is because their marketing is great. The challenger and charger are both rolling on a roughly 15 year old platform, there is absolutely no other company that would be able to get away with that today. I don't even know how they do it, but more power to them because it works. 
06-26-2019, 11:36 AM
#25
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: Near Cold Lake Alberta
Posts: 4,334
Received 713 Likes
on
370 Posts
2022 C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified
C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
http://fordauthority.com/2019/06/mus...amaro-delayed/
Delayed, not killed...clickbait sites annoy me.
Delayed, not killed...clickbait sites annoy me.
06-26-2019, 11:41 AM
#26
Instructor
http://fordauthority.com/2019/06/mus...amaro-delayed/
Delayed, not killed...clickbait sites annoy me.
Delayed, not killed...clickbait sites annoy me.
06-26-2019, 12:50 PM
#27
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: Near Cold Lake Alberta
Posts: 4,334
Received 713 Likes
on
370 Posts
2022 C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified
C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
Who's to say which one is correct? I'm going with the individual running Muscle Cars & Trucks considering his track record of reliable information, and GM specific inside information. Also, he left GM (and Ford) authority to start MC&T so makes sense they would dispute him in some fashion.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...vrolet-camaro/
06-26-2019, 12:52 PM
#28
The car needs to be derivable by all, it is my opinion that is why its behind Ford and Dodge. The visibility out of it is a killer, everyone and I mean everyone complains about that. Get in a Stang or Chall and you can see well and drive it without feeling like you are in a Sub.
I like the car, I can drive it, I would love a ZL1LE! I also dont like the visibility but I can get used to it.
Would my wife or any average woman get in one and drive it? No. I see lots of women driving Mustangs, my wife would. Challenger's are very drive-able and roomy. Put her in a current gen Cam and she is like "hell no". Causes her to feel claustrophobic.
I like the car, I can drive it, I would love a ZL1LE! I also dont like the visibility but I can get used to it.
Would my wife or any average woman get in one and drive it? No. I see lots of women driving Mustangs, my wife would. Challenger's are very drive-able and roomy. Put her in a current gen Cam and she is like "hell no". Causes her to feel claustrophobic.
06-26-2019, 01:27 PM
#29
Instructor
Sorry, I'm not putting faith in a website no one has heard of until now...
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...vrolet-camaro/
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...vrolet-camaro/
06-26-2019, 01:41 PM
#30
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: Near Cold Lake Alberta
Posts: 4,334
Received 713 Likes
on
370 Posts
2022 C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified
C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
I ignored that clickbait as well...because the LT5 was not tunable as well - and we all know how that turned out. It's okay if you enjoy look-at-me sites, but those of us with a little background knowledge find better sources for our information.
06-26-2019, 05:56 PM
#31
Team Owner
I have driven the 5th and 6th gen and it is no harder to drive due to visibility than my 4th gen.
Proper mirror placement, sit correctly without a gangsta lean, and stop slumping back and you can see fine.
Whole lot of **** for nothing. Also, last time I checked my head still turns. Remember parking big trucks before having cameras and sensors everywhere? lol
It's as if people can't drive.
Proper mirror placement, sit correctly without a gangsta lean, and stop slumping back and you can see fine.
Whole lot of **** for nothing. Also, last time I checked my head still turns. Remember parking big trucks before having cameras and sensors everywhere? lol
It's as if people can't drive.
06-29-2019, 07:00 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
To answer my own question, no, the camaro can’t : http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...vrolet-camaro/
IF GM can pump major $$ into a clean slate redesign (put one of the concepts into production) the. It would work. But, the current model design failed...
and it it doesn’t look like GM is going to pump $$$ into camaro , vis a vis the $$ put into corvette C8.
oh, and there’s this : http://fordauthority.com/2019/05/a-f...a-possibility/
IF GM can pump major $$ into a clean slate redesign (put one of the concepts into production) the. It would work. But, the current model design failed...
and it it doesn’t look like GM is going to pump $$$ into camaro , vis a vis the $$ put into corvette C8.
oh, and there’s this : http://fordauthority.com/2019/05/a-f...a-possibility/
Last edited by tcinla; 06-29-2019 at 07:16 PM.
07-01-2019, 05:56 PM
#33
Instructor
Original Article, a month old...
https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/cadillac-blackwing-replacing-v-series-as-weve-known-it/
Or is Cadillac Society still not good enough? We'll just revisit when Cadillac announces it....
http://cadillacsociety.com/2019/06/2...led-blackwing/
07-01-2019, 10:14 PM
#34
Race Director
R
Fwiw i drove the sixth gen camaro ss and found the visibility fine. Of course my first car was a 1969 firebird convertible.
with stylish designs comes compromises.
people comparing the mustang, challenger and camaro are really finding reasons to get a cheaper v8...
the styling on the fifth gen was about the same as the sixth gen.
we are on 10 years..
gM s safe play on sixth gen styling backfired...
people got bored with the sixth gen styling...
as good looking as it is...people want passionate reasons to drop more coin for the better performing 6 th gen ca,aro...
if gm designs the 7 th gen to look like a ferrari portofino and it had the same visibility everyone would still buy it as quickly as they were produced...IMO
next gen camaro will probably be a ev in 2023...
awd hot rod cuv like a lamborghini Urus but a full electric...
by then GM will change the name...
halo vehicles will be hot rod soft roaders by then...
pony cars have become commodities..
dodge is giving away their v8 5.7 liter challengers...
fwiw i dont think the front facia was where the restyle should have gone...its the c pillar on the sixth gen thats aging the vehicle...not the nose or tail...
probably too expensive to change...
the mustangs c pillar is sleeker and more modern.
too had because that alpha platform kicks some serious ***..
The car needs to be derivable by all, it is my opinion that is why its behind Ford and Dodge. The visibility out of it is a killer, everyone and I mean everyone complains about that. Get in a Stang or Chall and you can see well and drive it without feeling like you are in a Sub.
I like the car, I can drive it, I would love a ZL1LE! I also dont like the visibility but I can get used to it.
Would my wife or any average woman get in one and drive it? No. I see lots of women driving Mustangs, my wife would. Challenger's are very drive-able and roomy. Put her in a current gen Cam and she is like "hell no". Causes her to feel claustrophobic.
I like the car, I can drive it, I would love a ZL1LE! I also dont like the visibility but I can get used to it.
Would my wife or any average woman get in one and drive it? No. I see lots of women driving Mustangs, my wife would. Challenger's are very drive-able and roomy. Put her in a current gen Cam and she is like "hell no". Causes her to feel claustrophobic.
Fwiw i drove the sixth gen camaro ss and found the visibility fine. Of course my first car was a 1969 firebird convertible.
with stylish designs comes compromises.
people comparing the mustang, challenger and camaro are really finding reasons to get a cheaper v8...
the styling on the fifth gen was about the same as the sixth gen.
we are on 10 years..
gM s safe play on sixth gen styling backfired...
people got bored with the sixth gen styling...
as good looking as it is...people want passionate reasons to drop more coin for the better performing 6 th gen ca,aro...
if gm designs the 7 th gen to look like a ferrari portofino and it had the same visibility everyone would still buy it as quickly as they were produced...IMO
next gen camaro will probably be a ev in 2023...
awd hot rod cuv like a lamborghini Urus but a full electric...
by then GM will change the name...
halo vehicles will be hot rod soft roaders by then...
pony cars have become commodities..
dodge is giving away their v8 5.7 liter challengers...
fwiw i dont think the front facia was where the restyle should have gone...its the c pillar on the sixth gen thats aging the vehicle...not the nose or tail...
probably too expensive to change...
the mustangs c pillar is sleeker and more modern.
too had because that alpha platform kicks some serious ***..
Last edited by JerriVette; 07-01-2019 at 10:17 PM.
07-24-2019, 07:40 PM
#36
Sad to see the 6th Gen Camaro's go away.
Bought a stripper 1SS back in 2017, only options the extra cost paint and NPP exhaust. It's been fast, handles great and I've had zero issues. Tremendous performance for the money paid.
Love the car but the styling IS for F body lovers only..it is weird. Hoping there are folks who want one in a year or so, as I'm moving to a C8.
Bought a stripper 1SS back in 2017, only options the extra cost paint and NPP exhaust. It's been fast, handles great and I've had zero issues. Tremendous performance for the money paid.
Love the car but the styling IS for F body lovers only..it is weird. Hoping there are folks who want one in a year or so, as I'm moving to a C8.
07-25-2019, 05:52 AM
#37
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2000
Location: munising MI USA
Posts: 5,761
Likes: 0
Received 47 Likes
on
45 Posts
odd I would think that they sold ALOT more Camaros then corvettes. Add to that nascar chev would have to start all over again with a new car. I would think they would be in the KNOW if anyone was and wouldnt have even started playing with the camaro body. Guess ill believe it when I see it.
Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 07-25-2019 at 05:54 AM.