Captain Chaos

So this may be a stupid question........

K36 and K38 primers.......

Can they be reduced with DTR 602?

The PDF says DT reducer so does that mean ANY product that starts with DT???

Sorry for my ignorance.

And thanks for the help.

Jim Dillon

I do not believe that is what they are referring to. I believe they are referring to DT870 which is normal shop reducer and DT885 which is for warm shop conditions (there also is a cold shop reducer but that is not necessary at this time of year). DTR is for the Delstar system and I do not believe it is meant to be as versatile as the normal DT products. I try not to experiment with expensive paint jobs (painting the old rider lawn mower is another story). DT 870 is what I use. DT 885 will stay wetter longer which often gives it a chance to eat into the lower layers.A Sometimes it can be used if the temp is really hot as well. It also flows out a bit better but flow on my primer is not as important to me as flow on my final coats, at least not to the point of keeping my primer really wet for extended periods. Reducer is relatively cheap-why risk disaster if you don't need to? Good luck-Jim

Captain Chaos

Thanks for the info. I couldn't remember why I had this reducer laying around???? And still don't know???

I'm having trouble adjusting to the new way of doing it. Assuming I'm doing it right of course.......

I painted fleet trucks 20 years ago and know which end of a Binks model 7 to use, right. Fast forward 20 years.... maybe more even since my first gun was a Thor Model 7. Cowboy buys a new rope (hvlp gun) and cant heard.

So what am I doing wrong if I cant get DP40 to lay flat. If we were having a contest to see how much orange peel could be produced..... I'd be king.


PPG said no reducer in that stuff. I would have cut that stuff in half way back when. So who you gots to be to make that come out of a gun smooth??????

So I use the K36 with DT885 and the hardener and the same lovely no flow. Do they make a molasses gun?

Gun set up? I was using a 1.3 cap and nothing I tried seemed to work????

Some comparison, of yesteryear and todays technique would be helpful here.,...... maybe?

Old dog needs to know how to do new trick.

derek 91 vette

1. what temperature was it in the spray booth? (while you were priming)

2. what spray gun are you using now?

3. how was your fluid flow? open up the material all the way!

4. how is your airflow in the booth? What kind of booth?

5. How much humidity? spray some water on the floor if its too dry/hot out.

Use slower reducer. Look into adding reducer into your epoxy.( I'm pretty sure you can do it. use the proper one)
I think PPG uses a bigger spray gun. That NCP stuff is sprayed out of a 1.7... I think.

crazywelder

Try not to get caught up in the "new paint versus old paint" mindset too much. Sure, products have changed and gotten more complex, but twenty years ago you were probably using acrylic enamel in the fleet environment which was good experience for applying todays paints, the biggest change today is the chemistry and following directions on the product sheets, and you can no longer eyeball the mix or guess dry times.

Sounds like you bought a new HVLP gun, does your compressor put out enough cfm to operate it? Low air pressure will cause the problems you are having besides what others mentioned with temperature and using the correct reducer for flow. A 1.5 tip might help also. And, if you have that old Binks gun lying around, you might clean it up and try it. Although newer spray guns make it easier for you to do good work, the older ones will still spray todays paint.

Captain Chaos

I dont think you'll catch me doing that. The one thing I DO like about HVLP is I can see while I spray cause all the material is going where I need it. Shame though to let 3 of them sit and do nothing. But I'm liking how much material gets on the car and no where else.

I didnt have the "stones" to open the needle all the way. Call that one pressure feed paranoia.

It was a bit warm bout 80 and 60 on the humidity.

The first time I shot the DP40 I called PPG and asked about a reducer. As I said before from appearance I would have cut it 100% or more. They said shoot it as is. Asked again about verying conditions even.... same response.

So how much color does it take these days to change the color of a vette? (doorjambs, under hood and such)

Jim Dillon

As to your gun, I believe 1.3 to be too small of an orifice. For primer surfacers and other thick paints I would not use less than 1.7. Devilbiss on their primer gun (PRi) use a 1.8 for surfacer. I have a gravity feed for some of my primers but for the thick stuff I use an old JGA with a large needle (2.0+, i forget how large but bought it years ago for thick primers).

As to opening the fluid needle all the way I believe it is something to try and get used to. I rarely ever close my down and use my finger pressure to adjust. May take some getting used to but I believe a half closed fluid needle is only making your work harder.

Whomever you spoke to at PPG is incorrect (believe me I have argued with some of those guys for as long as I have been painting). You can thin DPLF40 with DT reducers ( I use DT870 all the time when I use it as a sealer coat). If you look in the product sheet they even specify doing so for flex parts but it is totally acceptable. I don't thin it when I use it as an adhesion coat (my first coat but do so on sealer coats). You can thin it 2 parts DPLF to 1 part hardener to 1/2 part DT reducer).

Both K36 and K38 should be reduced with DT. If you are spraying it dry then add a bit more. It will make it easier to spray but may cut down on film build which is what you are shooting for with surfacer. You often put in on thick so it gives you some build to block flat.

Be careful with watering down the floors with today's use of hardeners as some of the iso based hardeners create iso clumping (looks like dirt in the paint). I do use some water but only to hold down dust and then squeegee the area before I start. Standing water will give you more headaches than help.

If you are going to shoot a lot of surfacer I would suggest putting a 2.0 needle in an old gun. It will work fine. If you are throwing that much overspray then adjust your gun accordingly. Good luck-Jim

Captain Chaos

I appreciate the help. This old dog may hunt yet.

Captain Chaos

OK so lets just say I'm done blocking the car. (yea right)

To seal or not to seal that is the question. And with what?

Jim Dillon

Paint reps will often tell you it is unnecessary; that you can shoot right on top of finely sanded surfacer. That is true and I have painted directly on surfacer on parts that I did not feel were as critical as a show car. Old habits die hard and I used to use the old PPG 1970 sealer to hold down sanding scratches and unnecessary swelling. I like DPLF as a sealer (thinned 1/2 part as explained above with DT870 so it flows out real smooth) and I have found in my own little orb that it seems to help hold down minor problems. I also like to use different colors of the DPLF so that I can achieve the different looks, otherwise I would have to tint my surfacer. You don't need a bunch of sealer as it is unnecessary film build but I cannot think of any negative aspect that it entails. I have found the more careful (meticulous) you are with everything under the finish coats the more the end result will give you everything you desired-Jim

derek 91 vette

I've seen ppg guys over here on the west coast adding a little voc compliant solvent in the primer. I think acetone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone

Captain Chaos

Thats everything a Fleet painter isn't.

But on the positive side I have a Trans Am I Diamond Black(ed) that you can read the newspaper in.

Looks almost as good as this dudes car...




So I guess I can do it if I want. And I want cause I get to send the wife a bill when its done since its HER car.

Captain Chaos

I broke out the K38 for the first time tonight.... It mixed up and shot like any paint I ever used.

And I'm already starting to collect on the bill.

derek 91 vette

In your situation I'd say you should seal it. Because you may have some imperfections that you missed.
The next problem is die back. You have to let the sealer dry the appropriate time. Otherwise you'll get die back. After its dried up properly. then nib it down with some 800 grit.