Paint/Body Corvette Materials, Techniques, and How To

Macco Paint Job

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Old 02-28-2009, 12:03 PM
  #21  
porchdog
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none of you have any idea as to what i do or what i charge . i do what is expected of me and price accordingly . if i overcharged i would not have the backlog of work i have now. if i had a problem with guys looking for a less costly way of doing it i would not be giving free advise on several sites would i ? i do tell people not to use cheap paint or 2nd/3rd line paints as they are just asking for problems. i advise the use of spi because it is a great product and priced well. if your saving the labor cost that's enough , spend the money on quality products. but then some don't really care about quality just cost so they can be seen in a vette. cant help them.
but what i do have a problem with is remarks like the first post in this thread. i don't like being called a crook by someone who knows nothing about this business . 2 years slinging bondo does not make you a tradesman. to say painters jack the price up just because it's a corvette is insulting. restore a 54 corvette then tell me how easy it was. the 57 i'm finishing has a little over 400 hrs in body work and paint. most of my customers have been with me over 20 years.

as for macco i know a little about them as i have known owners of several. they shoot for volume not quality . most try for 2 cars an hour . some may have a good painter but most don't since the pay is below average . it's a crap shoot.
by the way. overhead has always been part of cost.

this is like saying my doctor rips me off because i'm sick. works both ways don't it.
Old 02-28-2009, 12:15 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by porchdog
none of you have any idea as to what i do or what i charge . i do what is expected of me and price accordingly . if i overcharged i would not have the backlog of work i have now. if i had a problem with guys looking for a less costly way of doing it i would not be giving free advise on several sites would i ? i do tell people not to use cheap paint or 2nd/3rd line paints as they are just asking for problems. i advise the use of spi because it is a great product and priced well. if your saving the labor cost that's enough , spend the money on quality products. but then some don't really care about quality just cost so they can be seen in a vette. cant help them.
but what i do have a problem with is remarks like the first post in this thread. i don't like being called a crook by someone who knows nothing about this business . 2 years slinging bondo does not make you a tradesman. to say painters jack the price up just because it's a corvette is insulting. restore a 54 corvette then tell me how easy it was. the 57 i'm finishing has a little over 400 hrs in body work and paint. most of my customers have been with me over 20 years.

as for macco i know a little about them as i have known owners of several. they shoot for volume not quality . most try for 2 cars an hour . some may have a good painter but most don't since the pay is below average . it's a crap shoot.
by the way. overhead has always been part of cost.

this is like saying my doctor rips me off because i'm sick. works both ways don't it.
Well said. My son and I are prepping a '64 for paint. It is a bitch with capital B. We are both very picky and are putting a lot of hours in it just LEARNING how to do it right. My painter says it still going to be 5 to 7K for a decent "driver" paint job. It won't be a show car but it will look pretty nice, and it's what we can afford.
I know what Porchdog is talking about. He comes here with a ton of free advice and I'm grateful to have guys like him in here. You can't get something for nothing, but lots of guys are satisfied with nothing.

Thanks for all the info Porch, it's appreciated here.

Dave and Bryan
Old 02-28-2009, 08:05 PM
  #23  
dariopop
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"but what i do have a problem with is remarks like the first post in this thread. i don't like being called a crook by someone who knows nothing about this business"
Are we looking at the same post? That's maybe why you're upset, you're reading more into it than was written. I never called anybody a CROOK.
I started this post to help the guy that may not have a lot of money like " YOUR " customers seem to have. You're taking this much too personal. Maybe YOU don't overcharge Vette owners, but I personally know of a couple of guys that were and the shop owners admitted to it when questioned, saying if you have a Vette you can afford the cost of an expensive paint job. I'm not saying ALL shops do this. If you have nothing but negativity to add don't bother.
Old 02-28-2009, 11:22 PM
  #24  
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porch dog away to way man, i sound like randy on America idle
Old 03-01-2009, 02:58 PM
  #25  
929nitro
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Originally Posted by porchdog
none of you have any idea as to what i do or what i charge . i do what is expected of me and price accordingly . if i overcharged i would not have the backlog of work i have now. if i had a problem with guys looking for a less costly way of doing it i would not be giving free advise on several sites would i ? i do tell people not to use cheap paint or 2nd/3rd line paints as they are just asking for problems. i advise the use of spi because it is a great product and priced well. if your saving the labor cost that's enough , spend the money on quality products. but then some don't really care about quality just cost so they can be seen in a vette. cant help them.
but what i do have a problem with is remarks like the first post in this thread. i don't like being called a crook by someone who knows nothing about this business . 2 years slinging bondo does not make you a tradesman. to say painters jack the price up just because it's a corvette is insulting. restore a 54 corvette then tell me how easy it was. the 57 i'm finishing has a little over 400 hrs in body work and paint. most of my customers have been with me over 20 years.

as for macco i know a little about them as i have known owners of several. they shoot for volume not quality . most try for 2 cars an hour . some may have a good painter but most don't since the pay is below average . it's a crap shoot.
by the way. overhead has always been part of cost.

this is like saying my doctor rips me off because i'm sick. works both ways don't it.
Porchdog I want to say thanks for the help you give on this forum. I am one who cannot afford the proffesionalism that put into your work. As a results I do my own work but because of guys like you and Road-Race Vette being willing to share your expertise I will be able to get a much better finish. Thanks and keep educating us.

Last edited by 929nitro; 03-01-2009 at 03:01 PM.
Old 03-01-2009, 09:07 PM
  #26  
0Road-Race Vette
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Originally Posted by 929nitro
Porchdog I want to say thanks for the help you give on this forum. I am one who cannot afford the proffesionalism that put into your work. As a results I do my own work but because of guys like you and Road-Race Vette being willing to share your expertise I will be able to get a much better finish. Thanks and keep educating us.
No problem, my friend. Helping other car guys with advice, is what the hobby is all about.

Once in a while, porchdog and I have to step in and clear some things up regarding what we do.

"QUALITY" Car building is a very hard and time consuming business.

What we do cannot be compared to "scuff and squirt" jobs.

There are places out there that will provide services for almost any budget, from low to high.

However it needs to be noted that the results of each are not the same.

It is all good as long as the customer is happy with what they paid for, no matter where they went and what the price was.

Best Regards,

http://www.2ndgenrestorations.com
Old 03-02-2009, 11:20 AM
  #27  
79vetter
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Dog, when you say you have 400 hours into a project are those actual timed hours where you were actually doing something on the car or are those "lawyer's" hours where you do something that takes 10 minutes but gets billed at an hour?
I kind of get the impression that you have been doing this a long time and have developed an ego/atitude about yourself that what you do is nothing short of miraculous - and that it would take someone 40 years to learn your skill. Stuck in your ways.
Raod Race Vette comes across as very nice person to deal with and I like reading his posts - yours just seem negative.
Don't worry about me though - I hope you stick around here and continue to help people out.
Old 03-02-2009, 12:28 PM
  #28  
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well there it is again . let's see , we overcharge because it's a vette , we see you coming for a mile, and bill you like a lawyer ( what ever that means )
i can tell you this. you don't survive in this business unless you perform. and your right cowboy , ego is what drives you to be your best . if i mistreated my customers they would not schedule a build wait their turn. i appreciate my customers and take very good care of them and their cars. some for around 20 years. i would not be building my bankers 57 vette or the 62 that just left . i do very little for the public anymore because my customers are repeats. i do it all by myself and i do it as right as i possibly can . i don't have problems with my customers because i choose them wisely .
and yes i tend to get a little negative when someone slams my profession when i've tried to help each and every person who has asked. between farming and corvettes i have plenty of aggravation and don't need this. yall have fun .
Old 03-02-2009, 05:22 PM
  #29  
Manuel Azevedo
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Originally Posted by porchdog
well there it is again . let's see , we overcharge because it's a vette , we see you coming for a mile, and bill you like a lawyer ( what ever that means )
i can tell you this. you don't survive in this business unless you perform. and your right cowboy , ego is what drives you to be your best . if i mistreated my customers they would not schedule a build wait their turn. i appreciate my customers and take very good care of them and their cars. some for around 20 years. i would not be building my bankers 57 vette or the 62 that just left . i do very little for the public anymore because my customers are repeats. i do it all by myself and i do it as right as i possibly can . i don't have problems with my customers because i choose them wisely .
and yes i tend to get a little negative when someone slams my profession when i've tried to help each and every person who has asked. between farming and corvettes i have plenty of aggravation and don't need this. yall have fun .


Hey dog I know you try and do the best you can in labor and price, I can tell that from the help you give here, I have asked a few quistion and I really appreciate the time and answers you give. Now there is always going to be people who the trade a bad new as well as people who think Macco paint job can be compared with a top quility paint job regardless how much they paid for the job. There is a difference in the look, do all have the ability to see the difference?? Think not by some of the posts here. Any way Thank You and others for help here, you are in buissness for a long time and getting top money for a reason, your good and fair!!!!!!!
Old 03-03-2009, 03:47 PM
  #30  
dariopop
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There is a difference in the look, do all have the ability to see the difference??
Well maybe not,but I saved $10,000 and I am totally satisfied with the look. Not a single person that has seen my car told me it looks bad ,in fact I love to tell people that its a Macco paint job and see their jaws drop. If you're the only one that can tell if its a $12,000 paint job and not a $1,400 in my eyes you're wasting your money. I've already put the money I saved into many other parts of my car and I am still way behind ( by about $7,000 ) the $12,000 I would have spent on just a paint job. The paint job is almost a year old now, ( never colored sanded , just polished ) so by what a lot of you Naysayers are telling me I only have a year left on the paint? Well if that is in fact the case then I will just throw another $1,400 into it and have it done again. ( every 5 years because its warrented for 5 years , pro-rated ,) wait a minute , it would be free if it happend within 2 years and for life if painted by a certified Sherwin Williams painter that works for Macco.

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Old 03-04-2009, 12:47 PM
  #31  
dariopop
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Joshwilson3:
I had it plastic media blasted and it really came out great. It cost me $800 but I know you could get it cheaper it you checked around. I had better offers to have it soda blasted but a friend of mine had problems with the soda getting into the electricals so I went with plastic media. I have not had any problems with scratches , maybe because I requested Ultra Flex cc950 clear ( Sherwin Williams ) it is the same clear that they use on Nas-cars to prevent the clear from chipping when debris hits it from other cars. ( no extra cost ) . I drive my car almost everyday (I do wash it quite offen ) . I also requested an extra coat of clear to give me plenty to color sand, but it came out so good that all I have done is polish it , last week was the 1st time I waxed it since it has been painted , and it looks better now than the Pictures I just posted.
There was no labor involved, I removed all lights, chrome and emblems B/4 for paint and replaced all of the chrome and lights with new ones after paint. I also did all of the seams ( ground out) .

Last edited by dariopop; 03-05-2009 at 10:58 PM.
Old 03-05-2009, 12:17 AM
  #32  
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Joshwilson3:
I took a few more pictures of my car,as you can see I don't really have any scratches and I have washed my car probably 30 times since paint. I do notice that my california duster leaves a few minor ones sometimes. But all in all it has held up pretty good for a year old paint job that is driven almost every day. I find it hard to get a good close-up because it has so much Gold metalic in the paint and I get a lot of back flash.

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Old 03-05-2009, 11:53 AM
  #33  
dariopop
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joshwilson3
If you remove all of those items then the cost for painting is all that should be charged.
Let me make myself clear here. I am talking about what I paid for at Macco ,if that's the route that you are taking than it going to cost you $1,499 for their best paint job like mine ( taping is included in the cost of the paint job ) and I would hold off on the color sanding like I did . I believe color sanding is not in the $1,499 cost anyways.. Mine cost a little extra because I had all of my door jams and under hood repainted because I had it painted two shades darker than original so that was $200 more ( but by my choice). They even shaved around my headlights because the painter was afraid that the paint buildup may bind after having a few layers of paint applied.
Now if you're going to a " professional shop " now that's another story, read this complete post, enough of them have mentioned what they charge and the reason why.
If you decide to go with Macco " DO YOUR HOMEWORK" I have had friends get bad paint jobs from professionals and I also have a few that got real bad paint jobs from other Macco's. ( In fact his small claims court is still pending ) Its a toss of a coin Josh.
I live in Connecticut and I took a drive to almost every Macco in the State , I toured the shops and looked at their finished product , checked out the condition of their paint booth and watched their workers taping and sanding cars. Then I made my pick of which shop I was going to use. It was really a no brainer because the shop I chose had three Corvettes being worked on while I was there and one that had just been painted in the last day or so and looked fantastic.
I am retired so I had a lot of time on my hands, but not much money, but I am more than happy with the end results that I got.
Any good shop should give a perspective customer a tour because good shops are proud of their establishments, there may be a few areas that you can't get close to because of safety issues or insurance reasons. But be leery of a shop that won't let you check them out.
Good luck, Dario

Last edited by dariopop; 03-05-2009 at 10:25 PM.
Old 03-05-2009, 04:28 PM
  #34  
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Well I would like to say congrats to you.
Every shop/ painter is different.

My experience with Maaco (the shop and headquaters) The shop I took my car to the body man was good and friendly The owners were scam types who use cheap stuff etc. I told them I was referred by someone and might have near future bus.
They tell me one month. Ok Two months later I had to get them to move on it, The broke all my emblems on my car and just tried to ignore it, The paint had clearly visible lines, drips etc.
I made them fix the paint and they claimed they would get me new emblems A week later (for the repaint) they call me and say pick up your car or we will charge you storage! WTF! The paint still was not good ended up flaking apart like crazy never got new emblems I called Maaco hq? (long time ago) Anyway told them my story and they didnt give a sh*t (They were just starting a national ad campaign w/ a famous star) I went back to shop and they were basically F U I will never use a Maaco even if they are good etc The national corp sucks in my opinion!
Old 03-05-2009, 05:28 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by porchdog
none of you have any idea as to what i do or what i charge . i do what is expected of me and price accordingly . if i overcharged i would not have the backlog of work i have now.....

........ but what i do have a problem with is remarks like the first post in this thread. i don't like being called a crook by someone who knows nothing about this business . 2 years slinging bondo does not make you a tradesman. to say painters jack the price up just because it's a corvette is insulting.

I've been following this discussion, since I tossed in my $0.02 a while back. It seems to me, somebody is getting their "panties in a wad" over nothing.

Some Corvette owner from Conneticuit does all the "BS" prep work on his car, and has the local Maaco shop shoot the color. This owner then relates his satisfactory experience to the rest of us.

For reasons unclear in this thread, some "restoration shop owner" from Texas, 2500 miles away, takes offense because the OP says he had good results from a "discount shop".

So What????

Did you expect the OP to drive all the way to your shop to get his car painted? Did you lose any business over his decision??


I thought the object of this website was for the friendly exchange of information and tips on maintaining/enjoying Corvettes....



BTW, not to throw any gas on the smoldering embers, here, but the OP showed us pictures of his finished car. Where are examples of the "professionally done" cars??
Old 03-05-2009, 10:06 PM
  #36  
dariopop
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Vettenova:
Sorry to hear about your problems , I did a lot of checking out to avoid situations like yours. My shop was very accomodating , called me the day he wanted it at the shop and it was done 5 days later. I actually got a call the 2nd day and the owner asked me if I wanted to block the 1st coat of k2 primer before the 2nd coat and I spent a whole day at the shop in a spare booth and fixed any minor imperfections that showed up after the primer dried. Sure made a difference in the end result. Now you tell me of any other shop that would be willing to let the car owner come into their shop for a day to sand their car , that literally is taking money out of their pockets. I was so pleased with the results after paint that I slipped the painter an extra $100.00 .


joshwilson3
$1,499 total paint which also included any prep for paint .
Total out the door price $1,499 complete.
One more time here for ya Josh,
$1,499 out the door. No extra cost unless you ask for something special like I did , example : Door jams and under hood( if your changing color)

PS:
Thanks Leftfoot4 , for a while I thought I did something sacrilegious against this forum from some of responses I was getting.

Last edited by dariopop; 03-05-2009 at 10:47 PM.
Old 03-06-2009, 11:04 AM
  #37  
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i have no problem whit where or who paints his car. i have a problem with his attitude towards painters .

leadfoot , i put a few in an album but have doubts you would believe me so follow this link if you have any questions about my work . i have nothing to prove to you or anyone else .

http://www.streetrodding.com/index.c...s.view&id=1558

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Old 03-06-2009, 02:59 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by porchdog
i have no problem whit where or who paints his car. i have a problem with his attitude towards painters .

leadfoot , i put a few in an album but have doubts you would believe me so follow this link if you have any questions about my work . i have nothing to prove to you or anyone else .

http://www.streetrodding.com/index.c...s.view&id=1558

"Dog", in a couple of your posts, you do a good job of "slamming" people because they don't automatically know who you are, aren't familiar with your work or your reputation, or in this case, choose to do some of the work themselves and farm out the rest to a low cost provider. Then you wonder why you're not getting the respect you seem to feel you deserve?




BTW, the 'Vette pictures you posted look pretty good....
Old 03-06-2009, 03:26 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by porchdog
dariopop , i find your post offensive and uncalled for. i hate to bust your bubble but i charge the same to paint any car . i get damn tired of guys like you saying i'm overpaid or overcharge because it's a vette. when you've invested 40 years and a ton of money into a building and equipment your opinion would be worth listening to. you know absolutely nothing about the restoration business or what it takes to please customers and stand behind work. this is the kind of thread that runs professional's off . i don't get paid to come here, i don't need any work , i just try to help guys that are stumped . sometimes i wonder why .
i would have thought you would have thick skin by now. you know there are many kinds of people. there are ones that have the money and will pay a professional to have top quality work done. there are the ones that just want a cheap as possible job that looks good for a while and have no idea what goes into a first class paint job. then there are people like me that dont have the money to pay a professional to get the results they want. this is where people like yourself have come to allow people like me to get closer to the goal of a top quality paint job by doing much of it myself. your answers in this section have saved me thousands and have helped me stay on the right track to my goal. i had no idea how much work was involved in preping a car for paint and i had no idea what materials to use until i came here for answers. you and others here provided them for me. after doing much of the work with help from an experianced friend i have learned why a top quality job costs so much. the money i have saved by learning from yourself and others will allow me to stay in my budget. i will now be able to pay an experianced painter to do the actual painting and finish work to get the results i want. even though i will have done all the body and prep work i still expect to pay quite a bit for the finish work. at least now i have an understanding why i am paying that amount for the work. there are many opinions of what is a show paint job, a good paint job, and what is too much to pay for each. dont get offended. sometimes you have to take everything with a grain of salt. you have to admit the macco paint job does look nice.
Old 03-06-2009, 04:55 PM
  #40  
79vetter
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P-Dog,

I see you are already back. You really need to lighten up. If you want to give free advice here then may God bless you. Do you want us to keep praising you on the helpful advice you give?
Otherwise lose the grumpy atitude that you bring here. As others have stated this is supposed to be a positive hobby about restoring Vettes. We are all lucky in that we are a select group of people in the universe that has the fortune of being able to own and work on them. Look at the bigger picture before you post next time.


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