Painting Over Where Stripes Were
03-16-2016, 11:11 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Painting Over Where Stripes Were
I have a 1991 ZR-1 that is painted red with a white, Grand Sport, type stripe on it. You can barely feel the stripe.
All of the paint is in great shape, the red and the white stripe, but I'm wanting to paint the car solid black.
I've been told that even if I sand the stripe off until you can't feel it there's a Good chance you may still be able to see where the stripe was.
HELP!
Thanks
All of the paint is in great shape, the red and the white stripe, but I'm wanting to paint the car solid black.
I've been told that even if I sand the stripe off until you can't feel it there's a Good chance you may still be able to see where the stripe was.
HELP!
Thanks
03-17-2016, 06:11 PM
#2
Race Director
I KNOW this can occur when the stripes were applied by using a wide colored stripe tape. Such like adhesive backed pinstripes. Or the Trans Am decals on the hood years ago.
The adhesive on the decal or pinstripe or what ever does something to the paint under it where it will come back as a 'ghost outline' and you can see where the decal or stripe once was.
IF the white stripes are actually paint....There is a lot to consider.
IF when they painted the hood RED...in basecoat....allowed that to dry.....THEN they masked off the stripes...painted them..and THEN they clearcoated the entire hood....thus burying the stripes under clear and thus making it so you can sand it down slick and buff it and NOT feel the stripes at all.
I would prep the hood and NOT ...repeat NOT break through the clearcoat if at all possible and then seal and paint it or whatever.
The reason is...IF the stripes were applied as I just wrote....prepping the clear should not cause the stripes to surface. I have done intense graphic work...such as flames, murals and other custom effects and bury them all in clear...then later on..the owner wants a change and I prep the clear and go over it and nothing ever shows back up again.
IF the white stripe is applied ON the clear that they applied on top of the red....this is where things can change a bit. Becasue you would want to very carefully remove the white paint and NOT break through the clear that is on the red.
IF you break throguh the clear coat in large patches....it is HIGHLY possible...because you are painting BLACK...these areas can come back and ring out due to the solvents in whatever you apply on the prepped hood will attack and make the lower coating react differently from the solvents. You can NOT expect the basecoat to react the same as the clear,,,,,THUS...that is where you can have a ring show up in time. AND when you are applying a primer or a sealer....things may look perfectly fine and lay down perfect....and paint it and clear it and its perfect.....BUT...give it TIME.....and one day....you will walk by the car knowing the spots your broke through the clear and WHAM...you can see the rings.
BUT...NOT ALL IS LOST!!!!! Let that coat of clear cure out for a good while (1 year+) and that does not mean sittign in your garage...I mean out in the SUN.
Then you prep the entire hood again....get the 'ring-out' to sand out flat and smooth and then clear the hood again and the ring out will NOT come back up....BUT...this ONLY works if you allow the clear you applied initially to really cure out.
I KNOW this method works...because I have to do it form time to time when I am NOT being paid to entirely strip a panel all the way down. Which completely stripping the panel would STOP any chance of the 'ring-outs' becasue there is nothing there are NO layers to react differently. KEEP IN MIND ...I am writing this for others also BECAUSE if the color is a metallic or pearl color....these 'ring outs' can actually distort the paint structural appearance itself and when you sand it down...you will still see the disruption. IN THAT CASE...blow in some of the paint and blend it out and then clear it and you will be GOODS TO GO.
LASTLY....knowing that your car is going black.,....what you can do is what I do on SOLID color cars....IF I feel that these ring-outs are going to come back and HAUNT ME....I apply another coat of clear on these KNOWN areas and then apply 3 good coats of clear.
SO...IF I were painting your car.,...and it was time to clear it out....I would walk in the booth and apply a good coat of clear on these areas....let that coat flash...then apply 3 more coats. The reason is...if the ring-outs show up...you can have enough clear on the panel to simply sand and buff them out. SO...when you are applying eh clear on these areas of concern...keep in mind you may be sanding it out and buffing it again so do not keep the coat of clear you apply on these areas so small....let the clear blend out further than what you know is the actual area.
DUB
The adhesive on the decal or pinstripe or what ever does something to the paint under it where it will come back as a 'ghost outline' and you can see where the decal or stripe once was.
IF the white stripes are actually paint....There is a lot to consider.
IF when they painted the hood RED...in basecoat....allowed that to dry.....THEN they masked off the stripes...painted them..and THEN they clearcoated the entire hood....thus burying the stripes under clear and thus making it so you can sand it down slick and buff it and NOT feel the stripes at all.
I would prep the hood and NOT ...repeat NOT break through the clearcoat if at all possible and then seal and paint it or whatever.
The reason is...IF the stripes were applied as I just wrote....prepping the clear should not cause the stripes to surface. I have done intense graphic work...such as flames, murals and other custom effects and bury them all in clear...then later on..the owner wants a change and I prep the clear and go over it and nothing ever shows back up again.
IF the white stripe is applied ON the clear that they applied on top of the red....this is where things can change a bit. Becasue you would want to very carefully remove the white paint and NOT break through the clear that is on the red.
IF you break throguh the clear coat in large patches....it is HIGHLY possible...because you are painting BLACK...these areas can come back and ring out due to the solvents in whatever you apply on the prepped hood will attack and make the lower coating react differently from the solvents. You can NOT expect the basecoat to react the same as the clear,,,,,THUS...that is where you can have a ring show up in time. AND when you are applying a primer or a sealer....things may look perfectly fine and lay down perfect....and paint it and clear it and its perfect.....BUT...give it TIME.....and one day....you will walk by the car knowing the spots your broke through the clear and WHAM...you can see the rings.
BUT...NOT ALL IS LOST!!!!! Let that coat of clear cure out for a good while (1 year+) and that does not mean sittign in your garage...I mean out in the SUN.
Then you prep the entire hood again....get the 'ring-out' to sand out flat and smooth and then clear the hood again and the ring out will NOT come back up....BUT...this ONLY works if you allow the clear you applied initially to really cure out.
I KNOW this method works...because I have to do it form time to time when I am NOT being paid to entirely strip a panel all the way down. Which completely stripping the panel would STOP any chance of the 'ring-outs' becasue there is nothing there are NO layers to react differently. KEEP IN MIND ...I am writing this for others also BECAUSE if the color is a metallic or pearl color....these 'ring outs' can actually distort the paint structural appearance itself and when you sand it down...you will still see the disruption. IN THAT CASE...blow in some of the paint and blend it out and then clear it and you will be GOODS TO GO.
LASTLY....knowing that your car is going black.,....what you can do is what I do on SOLID color cars....IF I feel that these ring-outs are going to come back and HAUNT ME....I apply another coat of clear on these KNOWN areas and then apply 3 good coats of clear.
SO...IF I were painting your car.,...and it was time to clear it out....I would walk in the booth and apply a good coat of clear on these areas....let that coat flash...then apply 3 more coats. The reason is...if the ring-outs show up...you can have enough clear on the panel to simply sand and buff them out. SO...when you are applying eh clear on these areas of concern...keep in mind you may be sanding it out and buffing it again so do not keep the coat of clear you apply on these areas so small....let the clear blend out further than what you know is the actual area.
DUB
03-17-2016, 10:06 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I KNOW this can occur when the stripes were applied by using a wide colored stripe tape. Such like adhesive backed pinstripes. Or the Trans Am decals on the hood years ago.
The adhesive on the decal or pinstripe or what ever does something to the paint under it where it will come back as a 'ghost outline' and you can see where the decal or stripe once was.
IF the white stripes are actually paint....There is a lot to consider.
IF when they painted the hood RED...in basecoat....allowed that to dry.....THEN they masked off the stripes...painted them..and THEN they clearcoated the entire hood....thus burying the stripes under clear and thus making it so you can sand it down slick and buff it and NOT feel the stripes at all.
I would prep the hood and NOT ...repeat NOT break through the clearcoat if at all possible and then seal and paint it or whatever.
The reason is...IF the stripes were applied as I just wrote....prepping the clear should not cause the stripes to surface. I have done intense graphic work...such as flames, murals and other custom effects and bury them all in clear...then later on..the owner wants a change and I prep the clear and go over it and nothing ever shows back up again.
IF the white stripe is applied ON the clear that they applied on top of the red....this is where things can change a bit. Becasue you would want to very carefully remove the white paint and NOT break through the clear that is on the red.
IF you break throguh the clear coat in large patches....it is HIGHLY possible...because you are painting BLACK...these areas can come back and ring out due to the solvents in whatever you apply on the prepped hood will attack and make the lower coating react differently from the solvents. You can NOT expect the basecoat to react the same as the clear,,,,,THUS...that is where you can have a ring show up in time. AND when you are applying a primer or a sealer....things may look perfectly fine and lay down perfect....and paint it and clear it and its perfect.....BUT...give it TIME.....and one day....you will walk by the car knowing the spots your broke through the clear and WHAM...you can see the rings.
BUT...NOT ALL IS LOST!!!!! Let that coat of clear cure out for a good while (1 year+) and that does not mean sittign in your garage...I mean out in the SUN.
Then you prep the entire hood again....get the 'ring-out' to sand out flat and smooth and then clear the hood again and the ring out will NOT come back up....BUT...this ONLY works if you allow the clear you applied initially to really cure out.
I KNOW this method works...because I have to do it form time to time when I am NOT being paid to entirely strip a panel all the way down. Which completely stripping the panel would STOP any chance of the 'ring-outs' becasue there is nothing there are NO layers to react differently. KEEP IN MIND ...I am writing this for others also BECAUSE if the color is a metallic or pearl color....these 'ring outs' can actually distort the paint structural appearance itself and when you sand it down...you will still see the disruption. IN THAT CASE...blow in some of the paint and blend it out and then clear it and you will be GOODS TO GO.
LASTLY....knowing that your car is going black.,....what you can do is what I do on SOLID color cars....IF I feel that these ring-outs are going to come back and HAUNT ME....I apply another coat of clear on these KNOWN areas and then apply 3 good coats of clear.
SO...IF I were painting your car.,...and it was time to clear it out....I would walk in the booth and apply a good coat of clear on these areas....let that coat flash...then apply 3 more coats. The reason is...if the ring-outs show up...you can have enough clear on the panel to simply sand and buff them out. SO...when you are applying eh clear on these areas of concern...keep in mind you may be sanding it out and buffing it again so do not keep the coat of clear you apply on these areas so small....let the clear blend out further than what you know is the actual area.
DUB
The adhesive on the decal or pinstripe or what ever does something to the paint under it where it will come back as a 'ghost outline' and you can see where the decal or stripe once was.
IF the white stripes are actually paint....There is a lot to consider.
IF when they painted the hood RED...in basecoat....allowed that to dry.....THEN they masked off the stripes...painted them..and THEN they clearcoated the entire hood....thus burying the stripes under clear and thus making it so you can sand it down slick and buff it and NOT feel the stripes at all.
I would prep the hood and NOT ...repeat NOT break through the clearcoat if at all possible and then seal and paint it or whatever.
The reason is...IF the stripes were applied as I just wrote....prepping the clear should not cause the stripes to surface. I have done intense graphic work...such as flames, murals and other custom effects and bury them all in clear...then later on..the owner wants a change and I prep the clear and go over it and nothing ever shows back up again.
IF the white stripe is applied ON the clear that they applied on top of the red....this is where things can change a bit. Becasue you would want to very carefully remove the white paint and NOT break through the clear that is on the red.
IF you break throguh the clear coat in large patches....it is HIGHLY possible...because you are painting BLACK...these areas can come back and ring out due to the solvents in whatever you apply on the prepped hood will attack and make the lower coating react differently from the solvents. You can NOT expect the basecoat to react the same as the clear,,,,,THUS...that is where you can have a ring show up in time. AND when you are applying a primer or a sealer....things may look perfectly fine and lay down perfect....and paint it and clear it and its perfect.....BUT...give it TIME.....and one day....you will walk by the car knowing the spots your broke through the clear and WHAM...you can see the rings.
BUT...NOT ALL IS LOST!!!!! Let that coat of clear cure out for a good while (1 year+) and that does not mean sittign in your garage...I mean out in the SUN.
Then you prep the entire hood again....get the 'ring-out' to sand out flat and smooth and then clear the hood again and the ring out will NOT come back up....BUT...this ONLY works if you allow the clear you applied initially to really cure out.
I KNOW this method works...because I have to do it form time to time when I am NOT being paid to entirely strip a panel all the way down. Which completely stripping the panel would STOP any chance of the 'ring-outs' becasue there is nothing there are NO layers to react differently. KEEP IN MIND ...I am writing this for others also BECAUSE if the color is a metallic or pearl color....these 'ring outs' can actually distort the paint structural appearance itself and when you sand it down...you will still see the disruption. IN THAT CASE...blow in some of the paint and blend it out and then clear it and you will be GOODS TO GO.
LASTLY....knowing that your car is going black.,....what you can do is what I do on SOLID color cars....IF I feel that these ring-outs are going to come back and HAUNT ME....I apply another coat of clear on these KNOWN areas and then apply 3 good coats of clear.
SO...IF I were painting your car.,...and it was time to clear it out....I would walk in the booth and apply a good coat of clear on these areas....let that coat flash...then apply 3 more coats. The reason is...if the ring-outs show up...you can have enough clear on the panel to simply sand and buff them out. SO...when you are applying eh clear on these areas of concern...keep in mind you may be sanding it out and buffing it again so do not keep the coat of clear you apply on these areas so small....let the clear blend out further than what you know is the actual area.
DUB
My brother has a body shop and he will be doing the painting. He's painted a few of my other vettes, several years ago, and they still look good. He's actually trying to talk me out of this. He's also the one that said the stripe might show back up.
I guess I need to do more thinking about it. I really appreciate your input on this.
03-18-2016, 11:19 AM
#4
Drifting
i have stripped a firebird hood to metal and repainted it only to have the bird come back in the sun. when i had my van shop we would get the 2 tone trucks at the end of the year. remove the tape strip , da it with 80 then repaint them. the tape strip will ghost back every time .
not as bad on glass but the uv does something to the metal .
as dub said if they are cleared over your good to go. if not i would remove all of it .
not as bad on glass but the uv does something to the metal .
as dub said if they are cleared over your good to go. if not i would remove all of it .
03-18-2016, 05:48 PM
#5
Race Director
randy ransome,
AS your brother more than likely knows....it has EVERYTHING to do with how the previous people prepped the factory paint to do what they did to it that is on the car currently.
I guess it all depends on how 'married' you are going to be to the ZR-1. If ti is going to be a 'keeper'...then I guess taking the process to the extreme is worth it. IF this ZR-1 is just a passing 'fancy'...I would have to agree with your brother.....leave it alone or prep it and paint it and deal with what may happen down the road. Because stripping this car down is NO PICNIC....as you may already know. Changing from factory red to black.....MAN...there is A LOT to contend with so when it is done and down the road you have a great looking car. Especially if you can live with light stone chips showing the red paint underneath if it is NOT stripped. And paint flaking off the door hinges due to not being stripped and all the grease washed off and all that mess.
Best of luck in your decision....regardless in what direction you plan on taking it.
DUB
AS your brother more than likely knows....it has EVERYTHING to do with how the previous people prepped the factory paint to do what they did to it that is on the car currently.
I guess it all depends on how 'married' you are going to be to the ZR-1. If ti is going to be a 'keeper'...then I guess taking the process to the extreme is worth it. IF this ZR-1 is just a passing 'fancy'...I would have to agree with your brother.....leave it alone or prep it and paint it and deal with what may happen down the road. Because stripping this car down is NO PICNIC....as you may already know. Changing from factory red to black.....MAN...there is A LOT to contend with so when it is done and down the road you have a great looking car. Especially if you can live with light stone chips showing the red paint underneath if it is NOT stripped. And paint flaking off the door hinges due to not being stripped and all the grease washed off and all that mess.
Best of luck in your decision....regardless in what direction you plan on taking it.
DUB
03-18-2016, 05:51 PM
#6
Race Director
i have stripped a firebird hood to metal and repainted it only to have the bird come back in the sun. when i had my van shop we would get the 2 tone trucks at the end of the year. remove the tape strip , da it with 80 then repaint them. the tape strip will ghost back every time .
not as bad on glass but the uv does something to the metal .
as dub said if they are cleared over your good to go. if not i would remove all of it .
not as bad on glass but the uv does something to the metal .
as dub said if they are cleared over your good to go. if not i would remove all of it .
I am glad you responded and shared you experiences with what decals and such can do when you go do a re-paint. It can serious screw things up....that is for sure. I am not glad that it happened to you...but I am glad that I am not the only one who has experienced this weird phenomenon.
DUB
03-19-2016, 09:59 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies folks. I guess I'll have to do more thinking on the subject. I do plan to keep the car, only if I repaint it. It's a nice car with only 27,000 miles and a 368 cubic inch motor.
04-05-2016, 09:17 AM
#8
Heel & Toe
I had a friend with a late-seventies Chevy pickup with a package that included factory stripes on the hood. He wanted the truck all one color and the hood was sanded to bare metal. Yet after it was done, the striped area still showed. We couldn't believe it!