afinuk

I bought my C5 last year and these areas were having a problem. I just got back from an overseas deployment and noticed the problem has gotten worse. Unfortunately, my wife wasn't able to drive the Vette a lot while I was gone due to our small children, so it sat in the Arizona sun for a majority of the time I was gone. She did start it up every other day though

I'm guessing the clear coat is failing? Here are some pictures. One area is located on on the hatch, the other on the passenger door.









If it's the clear coat failing, is there anything I can do to fix or at least stop the spread of the failure? These two locations are the only areas on the car that has this issue.

If it's not the clear coat failing, then what is this problem?

I'm fairly competent with a rattle can, but auto body paint is new territory for me. I appreciate any advice or insight!

Dave Tracy

That is a mess. it sure appears to be a clearcoat failure. DUB will likely have all of the answers for you. It may be a repaint that is failing. My guess is that the areas will need to be sanded and new BC/CC. Thank you for your service for us.

DUB

QUESTION 1 : The clear that is popping off of the rear hatch lid area by the rear glass. IS the paint under it shiny????

QUESTION 2 : Can you tell by looking really close...has the rear hatch been painted before???? Easy ways to tell that it has been shot on over the factory paint is there will be small specs of trash in the surface texture....and you might actually see where they taped off the rear glass gasket area...you can see silver or clear on it due to an improper masking job.

QUESTION 3 : Is this car being covered when outside??? if so...with what.

The area on the door looks like wear....such as the car sitting where water would fall onto this area a lot....thus wearing the clear down and causing it to fail due to being too thin to fight against the UV's of the sun.

There is no stopping the problem. When clearcoat begins to pops off like that (rear hatch)....to me...it is an indicator that something is not right...which is WHY I asked some of the questions I asked and need answers to.

Attempting to sand out the bad areas on the rear hatch and leave a majority of the other paint to stay. You are taking a chance that the areas you do not sand down all the way and remove the layer of clear that is peeling off can come back and haunt you and then you are doing it all over again.

The repair on the door is slightly different due to it is not popping off in large bubbles. SO...prepping it can be not as extreme as the rear hatch...BUT....once again.....if you do not remove the clear and get down to the basecoat...you CAN BE taking a chance that it can cause for a future repair again.

So much of it depends on how the clear on the door reacts to sanding.

IF you are planing on using aerosol paints on this.....do as you wish.....but I would not do that. I paint cars professionally...and something about endorsing someone to use a rattle can for the exterior paint just makes my head spin. Keep in mind that aerosol paints are NOT catalyzed....and the clears are thus...more than likely going to take numerous coats to get enough build to keep it form failing due to teh sun. The amount of time and effort for me to do that to someones car is a loosing proposition due to I have the correct clear and know how to shoot the paint and clear so it will have good hold out.

BUT...once again...do as you wish.

DUB

afinuk

That's what my fear was--clear coat failure. Forgive my newbie question, is BC body color and CC clear coat?

Thank you for your support!

afinuk

Question 1:
I looked at the paint underneath and I don't believe it's shiny. I could see the metallics reflecting in the sun, but overall it didn't look shiny like the rest of the car. It also didn't feel smooth to the touch. The car color is pewter, but in these areas it almost seems more like a gray or silver.

Question 2:
I think it has been repainted or re-cleared or both. I looked at the thin edges of the hatch and the color seems more shiny than the exposed hatch area. Does this pic show an improper masking job? First time I really noticed this.



Question 3:
The car is not being covered and I'm unable to garage it. The car sits on a angled driveway and the sun hits that side from roughly 11 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. Normally, the car is not sitting there when I'm at work and has a more even sun distribution, if there is such a thing With the deployment and my wife not being able to drive it nearly as much as I (my DD), it sat in the driveway for 7 months getting its tan. Pic to give you an idea of what I mean:



I do not have any experience with auto body painting or sanding and I'm a bit apprehensive on doing this myself. I'm pretty sure the auto hobby shop here on base has a paint booth, but I'd have to remove the hatch/door and walk it in.

My wife likes to DIY crafts and stuff, so I always end up doing the sanding/spraying for her. I won't be attempting any rattle canning on the Vette though

Dave Tracy

BC-Base Coat
CC-Clear Coat

DUB

THANK YOU for answering my questions.

Being apprehensive is OK....but IF you want to do it....you can do it.

This gets a BIT more involved than removing a part and taking it to a paint booth. The reason is due to the possibly (rather high possibility) that the paint may need to be blended to the adjacent panel so it will match.

IF you plan on doing this yourself...and you have an area that you can do it with the proper tools,etc. I would be willing to help you. BUT...IF this is your FIRST TIME doing this...I would HIGHLY advise you to PRACTICE on something else until you get comfortable. AND..when you do that...the amount of TIME you spend and money for material MAY exceed what it would cost to pay someone like myself to do it for you...BUT...what you DO GAIN out of it is KNOWING HOW to do it....and that can be PRICELESS.

NOW..with the clear popping of and what is under it is NOT shiny is 'kinda' good. IF you plan on doing this there would be something I would want you to try and see how well the clear is actually bonded to the silver/pewter basecoat.

And YES...that edge that you took a photo of can be where they back-taped it and do not prep it correctly to the edge when they did the paint repair for whatever reason.

DUB

afinuk

No problem, DUB. Thank you for taking time to reply back!

I'll have to take a look and see what is available at the auto hobby shop. I've been up there to work on the wife's truck a few times, but never peeked in to see the painting booth. Is there any specific equipment I should look for?

I totally understand what you mean by the priceless of knowing how to do this. I've always been interested in this subject, but it seems a bit overwhelming with the amount of attention to detail that goes in to painting. Just like you said with blending to make it match with the adjacent panel, that might be over my skill set even if I practiced!

If I decide to attempt this myself, should I buy a spare Vette body panel for practicing? What else would I need?

I'm interested in seeing what you want me to try for how well the clear is bonded, let me know!

DUB

If your car were in my shop...I would take my razor blade inspection sticker knife and burnish the single edged razor blade but pulling it backwards on my pant leg a few times....and then I would go in and see if the razor blade would strip the clear right off the quarter panel.

IF the clear literally falls off easy...that is so much faster to strip the entire panel of the clear...than it would be sanding it off. BUT...keep in mind I KNOW how to use the razor blade scraper. NOT 'saying' that you cant use it...it just takes some finesse.

IF the clear FIGHTS to come off...requiring some extra effort...then that is telling me that there is still some degree of adhesion....which can make me take a step back and possibly rethink my 'game plan'...where there are other variables that would help me make my decision when I am only concerned with what the END RESULT will look like.

DUB

afinuk

I went by the auto hobby shop today and checked out the paint booth. It's a fully enclosed booth with proper ventilation and I can drive the Vette in. For equipment, it only has the compressor and hoses. I'd have to bring my own gun, paint, and anything else needed. No sanding is allowed in the booth; all that has to be done prior to using it. I can leave the car in the booth for the work to dry and it costs $53/day to use the booth/let the car sit in it.

What is a good time estimate for how long a project like this would take for a professional?

I attempted to use your method to test the clear. I don't think I was doing it properly, plus the only razor I had available to use was from a utility knife.

The clear that was already bubbled and peeling had no issues coming off, but once I got up to the edge of the more hardened clear it was not going to come off unless I really forced it. I got nervous and didn't want to press too hard and mess up the layer underneath. I didn't try it on the door's problem area. There didn't seem to be a spot where the edge of the clear was visible.

DUB

WELL...it is hard to tell what is going on ...BECAUSE...did you burnish the razor blade as I described???? Running it backwards on your pants leg??? AND using the tool I mentioned DOES make a difference due to the control of the tool and edge of the razor blade IS DIFFERENT.

Going of of what you wrote on how it got really hard to get the clear to come off. I would then feel that it is still bonded...BUT...NOW...the question is this. DO I...OR...DO I NOT remove the clear off this panel? IF I DON'T....it can come back and possibly peel off like what it is doing now.....BUT....IF I take it off...it can't pop off because it it no longer there.

DUB

afinuk

I did try burnishing the razor on my pant leg, but again, I probably wasn't wearing the correct type of material (Under Armour sport pants) to do it properly. Do I need to get it warmed up pretty good?

I want to attempt it again; could I get this specific type of razor tool at an auto supply store?

If the results are the same and the clear is bonded on there well, how hard is it to hand sand the clear off?

DUB

This is the type of razor blade tool I use.

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/imag...kerRemover.jpg

You wrote:If the results are the same and the clear is bonded on there well, how hard is it to hand sand the clear off?

It is not so much as how hard it is as how much time and effort that it will take. Using power tools to speed up you sanding are all well and good...but if they get out of hand....they can do MORE DAMAGE than you can imagine.

The chances that the clear will not easily sheet off the basecoat seems to be what will happen. SO...then it is up to you on how much time you want to spend in this.

There oftentimes come a point when i am prepping a panel where I have to determine if I am wasting my time CAREFULLY prepping a panel or I need to then plan on blending into the adjacent panel...which can aid me in speeding up the process. I KNOW you may think...."How does getting into the adjacent panel speed up the process? It seems like more work". WELL..it is... but it is not. The reason to get into a adjacent panel is often times due to trying to make sure the color match is good and if I break through the silver/pewter paint on your quarter panel...because I sanded through the clear too aggressively and thus lost my color match.....getting into the adjacent panels is then a MUST if a COLOR MATCH is important.

In this scenario...trying to sand of the clear and NOT damage the pewter/silver is going to be almost impossible.,...so prepping the adjacent panels is almost a MUST.

This type of repair I call a "Texas blend". The repair area starts off small...but by the time the 'smoke clears'...you had prepped other panels and thus....it being much more that was initially thought...thus..."Texas blend".

DUB

afinuk

Ohh, I've seen that type of razor tool before. I'll try to source one locally and if not, then I'll order one.

How does the blending process work? Would I be painting over the clear that is currently on the car?

DUB

YES...AFTER the clear on the adjacent panel has been PREPPED so the paint and clear will adhere through mechanical adhesion. when the rear deck panel has been prepped and you apply the pewter paint on it...you will take the paint gun and allow the paint to get onto the prepped adjacent panel that STILL has clear on it. Then the next coat of paint you apply you will go out a little bit further on the adjacent panel. WHAT you DO NOT want to do is to take the paint so far out onto the adjacent panel that you start getting paint at the furthest edge of that panel.

Then you apply the clear....and THAT is also tricky due to NOT wanting to clear coat the ADJACENT PANEL as much as you cleared the panel that needed to be painted....BECAUSE....IF you get 3 coats of clear on the ENTIRE adjacent panel...and KNOWING that your color is pewter....that thickness of clear that you are adding to the furthest edge of the adjacent panel that is adjacent to the next panel YOUR COLOR CAN DARKEN due to the added thickness of clear.

SO...when clearing the adjacent panel....you want to get clear on it but you have to remember that your still HAVE CLEAR on it....and that is WHY you do not need to coat the entire adjacent panel as much as you do the panel that is damaged.

AND YES...CLEAR can darken a color...just like how a swimming pool looks darker in the deep end ( from a birds eye view) versus the 3 foot end of the pool.....and YET...they painted the bottom of the swimming pool the same color light blue.

Enough of that...you have a lot more to worry about and we can get to this stuff when you are ready.

DUB

afinuk

Thank you for the quick breakdown on blending. I appreciate the info and it gives me a better idea of how it works.

I was able to find a sticker remover tool locally. I'll try your method again in the morning and report back what happens.

Aside from me trying your method again, what should my first step be with this whole thing?

Again, thank you DUB for taking the time out of your day to help

DUB

It all depends on what happens when you use your new razor blade tool.

DUB

afinuk

I tried it and the results were still the same. The clear wouldn't budge with the new razor tool.

DUB

OK.

NOW this is where the 'plot thickens'.

If you prep the area where the clear did pop off and NOT remove the rest of the clear on the panel...there COULD POSSIBLY BE a chance that that clear will pop off because you did not remove it.

NOW...that clear...due to being stuck really good and not wanting to flake off easily...it can be a good surface that you can prep and use to repair this problem.

NOW...the 'problem' that you can have is that when you feather out the surrounding clear...when you go and apply a primer or sealer or even the paint itself....the solvents in these products will effect the basecoat that remains DIFFERENTLY than the surrounding clear that has been catalyzed. SO...in time.

You can have what it called 'ring-out'. And this is where in time...you can see where the clear that stayed on the panel is showing up in some slight surface distortion. I am sure you may have seen this on some car paint repairs in the past. And this 'ring-out' can be quite noticeable because if a repair was done where a person went throguh 5 layers of material....each of those layers that may look like a cut onion...these rings will show up.

SO...the dynamic of what needs to be done is what I run into QUITE OFTEN. One way of doing it is not that labor intensive and you can take a chance...the other way is QUITE LABOR INTENSIVE and you reduce the chance of failure in time....and unfortunately..I do not have a crystal ball to tell you what to do. And when I have to repair issues like this...I am having an in depth conversation with my customer so THEY KNOW what I am up against and that is is not as easy as 1.2.3. And the choice on which direction that is made DOES effect there wallet.

DUB

afinuk

I'm tracking with everything you're saying, DUB. I have seen the 'ring-out' you described.

Cost is definitely going to be a factor with how I fix this and may have to hold off on it depending on the numbers.

If I have $1,000 to spend, what would be my best course of action to fix this?

Here's what I see as my options:
1. Attempt the fix myself. Method to be determined.

2. Take it to a professional and have them do the work.

3. Find some pewter body panels from Vette recyclers. Replace and try to sell the removed panels to recoup some cost.

Some background on the car:
It's my daily driver and has over 155K on the clock. I'm the third owner and previous owner had it since 2001. A lot of important maintenance was done to it, so the car is very mechanically sound. No accidents listed on the Carfax. Plan on keeping this Vette til it dies.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!