ignatz

My 2007 is in the shop and the shop is attempting to get the front bumper correct. Water-based paints are mandated here in the SF Bay Area and the shop's supplier is PPG.

They've shot a number of variations on the color and none of them match. The new color is being put over the old color and not over a primer. Based on the original scrape that is being fixed the underlying primer was whitish colored.The variations have some sort of code numbering which seems to imply that there are a number of "velocity yellow's". I don't know where the codes come from.

The original paint looks somewhat transparent. I'm sure the factory uses just enough to satisfy the eye. We both think there's the slightest trend toward green but very very subtly. The new paint has a "creamier" solid look to it and the color is close but not right.

So far they've:

- exhausted the known variations sprayed onto color cards
- had the paint supplier out to "scan" the car without success

The shop's next step is to have the PPG rep come out and get his or her input.

Any tips on getting this right would very much be appreciated.

DUB

I assume you are using Envirobase???

I do know my paint rep that deals in PPG and the NEXA paint I use has the serious paint decks with him at all times. These color decks are chromatic and area full spectrum of the color...in this case.... yellow.... and will show the graduations of changes in the yellow...much like what you see when you go to one of the large hardware stores in their paint area and you can see how the colors graduate slightly. green tones, blue tones, red tones, etc.

You can be exactly correct in the fact that the color was not applied to full hiding. I have encountered Corvettes whose paint was weak and did not have a full rich color in comparison to what I shot on a spray out card to verify I have the color spot-on.

And we in the industry HOPE that the actual color we are dealing with was CORRECTLY mixed at the factory. Often times they ARE NOT...and this gives us painters VARIANTS to a color.

Al I can say...it is like what I deal with a lot of times when I am trying to get a color to match. I have to tint it and check it myself. When I do this I can have a few hours into gettign a color match so I can blend it....or..... I can have a few days in getting it to be so close I could butt-paint it to the adjacent panel.

I can 'say' this. I took a class in color matching paint....and in the class we were given panels that were purposely messed up and we had to find what it took to get the color match so we could spray it. One of the panels was painted in a away that it did not have full coverage...and with checked under alight...you could see the tint of the sealer slightly coming trough it. That panels kicked my butt...but I figured it out...because sometimes panels are not painted all the same and you have to think out of the box.

And HOW did I figure it out...just like how I figure out how many coats of pearl to apply to a tri-stage pearl color. I taped off my spray off card only showing 1 inch of it...applied a coat of base..then removed that tape and paper and moved it back another inch...apply the base to the exposed spray out card...NOW...the first area I painted will have two coats on it and the new section will have one coat. I kept doing that until I have 5 or 6 area that I applied the base...then I clear coated it..>WHICH CAN EFFECT YOUR COLOR ALSO!!!!...and then check it to what I was trying to match.

And if people feel that applying clear to paint does not change the color....then explain this to me. Why is it that when they build a swimming pool ...they paint the inside the light blue color....but yet...on a sunny day...looking from a 'birds eye view'...WHY is the shallow end a lighter blue...but the deep end where you dive is a darker blue...and YET..we know water is about as clear as you can get. SO....YES...excessive clear can throw off a color.

DUB

ignatz

Thanks for the long post DUB, much appreciated that you take the time, as all of us surely feel. I think a good part of the situation is that robots put just enough paint on the car and that is what's driving things.

My guy has not yet gotten to custom tints, he's showing me color cards that have some sort of code with each. I don't know where the codes come from. I will have to find out. We have one that seems to be in the right direction but isn't good enough.

It's kind of crazy you stand there and look at colors and say to yourself "why is this so hard".

I do think the factory paint has to be correct as all the parts are painted separately and mated later. They all are identical in color.

Anyway, am hoping that PPG will take notice and come out and have a look. I would guess given the CA restrictions. the paint is their most environmentally friendly. And possibly different from whatever Bowling Green uses.

Of note, my iPod camera will give me crude spectral content when I edit pictures, I think I will try that out on the spray outs.

Dt86

When I dinged up my Tacoma I had a friend (auto body painter) fix it for me. My truck was silver. When he came to look at it he brought a large key ring with what must have been two hundred silver color cards on it. We sat there and under different lighting conditions narrowed down the right one. I don't even think it was a Toyota color. Turned out flawless. No computer picking the color. I hope they get it right for you.

DUB

Sound interesting to use your camera. I trust what my eyes see. beacsue I can check the color under different types of light. I have had colors that looked perfect in the sunlight but under the sodium lights a gas station the red turned wickedly orange.

DUB

zrracer

I think the clear has a tint in it.

DUB

I shot a 2006 Z06 back to the factory yellow and it did NOT have tinted clear.

I called my paint manufacturer and the 'WA' code showed that it did not...or at least the 'WA" code I called in on did not have a tinted clear.

And for those who read this and may not know...if a paint has a tinted clear...or basically like and 'old school candy'....it makes it what is called a tri-stage.

DUB

ignatz

To follow up, my body shop guy did the best he could (on his nickel). He said he wasted a lot of paint, trying to get a match. The results are ... just ok. From 10' there's enough overall yellow in view that you can't really see any difference in the fascia. From the side it's decent, and in the shade, same. In the sun, if you're looking hard, you can see they're different, the repaint is just a little creamier looking. The first picture looks way better than it really is in the sunlight so you may be wondering what kind of nitpicking this is! But the human eye is still the ultimate visual instrument, and in person, unless you are color blind, you would see a difference in person in sunlight. I'm going to try it tonight in artificial lights, just for the hell of it.

The PPG guy came out to the paint shop and said getting a close match is "problematical". With all the technology we have (see last photo and text), I would think applying some of it would remove the difficulty. Ultimately though, it's just some paint guy mixing and matching. It's not a science project for him and anyway, it's not his car so his good enough is not necessarily the owners.





As DUB says, there are no tint recipes for this color.

So as to making a science project out of this after the fact, I took a couple of areas and using the adjust feature in iPhoto, screen grabbed the RGB graph's the app gives me. The new color is on top. The levels are in the right place but there's a spread and I can't get any info on just what Apple is plotting here. Clearly there's some kind of difference seen in that way. I've done this on a couple of his trial shoots and this is the spectral best match but I don't know what a fatter, say green, spread means.



I will say the swarming termites after the rain a couple of days ago seemed not to be bothered by any difference in color. They love the yellow color. I have yet to test it against yellow jackets but previous encounters tell me they also love yellow. Life is sure full of oddities.

Interesting comment on yellow in pachetr's thread in post #5 on color matching yellow. DUB may have noticed but didn't comment. We'll see what pachetr's experience is.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-new-door.html

Anyway, I'm done. This whole thing has sure been a lesson for me.

DUB

Looks very good to me!

DUB

crazywelder

I haven't tried OEM tri-coats, do you mean they use a tinted mid-coat clear? Then top coated with conventional clear?

I prefer shooting candy and pearls but there are some nice looking OEM tri-coats.

DUB

Yes there are some good looking tri-stage paint colors coming out of the factory.

DUB

06Rawpower

I do see the slight creamy difference in your top photo. So sorry the painter couldn't match the original velocity yellow. That difference would really bother me.
The former owner of my 06 Z51 owned a body/paint shop for over a decade and he told me that the key in the velocity yellow to really get that depth in the paint is in a tinted clear coat. FWIW

Kenny94945

How the OP is satisfied.
His shop's painter seems to have done the best they can....it can be an art.

Yes, tri color can be difficult to match...so don't crash or get and chips or scratches.

My understanding....in general for tri color

1) Need to strip the color to primer and then address the primer color.
Some primers are tinted.
2) Apply color, match the color and yes skill as to how much mil thickness.
3) Apply clear, which is tinted...again skill.
4) Zoning (section blending) can be a proper repair procedure vs. attaining a butt match.

+1 for gloss black cars! LOL

06Rawpower

I hear ya I'm just a bit much on the OCD side so that's why it'd bother me. I'm sure all was done by the shop and PPG to match the bumper to the body. And yes...I already collected a couple of tiny chips on my mirrors and front bumper. I can't believe the paint chipped that easily. I'll contact the previous owner and since he owned a body shop maybe he had some touchup paint. Originally I was seeking a dark blue Vette. Velocity yellow far opposite on the color spectru lol.

DUB

Knowing that the process of painting urethane bumpers is different than that if the rest of the body panels...and that they are painted on a separate paint line. I am amazed on how many of my customers with brand new Corvettes can not tell that the bumpers do not match the rest of the car exactly. Some colors show up more 'off' than others.

I have learned to not sweat it when I paint them....especially if I am butt matching the bumper to the body. I get as close as I can and let it ride down the road.

Why do I do it like this you may ask??? Simply becasue....if a customer is super picky and wanting it to match perfectly. Butt matching usually will not achieve this due to the amount of time I spend tinting the color and shooting spray out cards.

It then is easier and faster to prep the front clip and blend the color into all adjacent panels and clear everything that was prepped. But...that also costs more money.

DUB