Help installing C3 inner fenders
04-18-2018, 11:23 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Help installing C3 inner fenders
Getting ready to reinstall the inner fenders on a '68. Any tips? Such as, where to begin, what to look out for, adhesive to use, how to get hood lined up, etc..
Much appreciated
Much appreciated
04-18-2018, 05:32 PM
#2
Race Director
Need more information to be able to respond.
Is the front clip on the car??? Such as the original press molded front clip?? OR...
Is it a new front clip...such as one piece hand laid front clip??? on or off the car also???
Are your inner skirts hand laid or press molded????
Is the body on a dollie or on the frame???
IF it is on the frame...is the car on the ground...thus on the tires and NOT being supported by jack stands under the frame????
I need know the state of affairs on this as you can see. Knowing where you are at will help me tell you what I feel you should do next.
If I do not have adequate information..then I can not give good suggestions.
DUB
Is the front clip on the car??? Such as the original press molded front clip?? OR...
Is it a new front clip...such as one piece hand laid front clip??? on or off the car also???
Are your inner skirts hand laid or press molded????
Is the body on a dollie or on the frame???
IF it is on the frame...is the car on the ground...thus on the tires and NOT being supported by jack stands under the frame????
I need know the state of affairs on this as you can see. Knowing where you are at will help me tell you what I feel you should do next.
If I do not have adequate information..then I can not give good suggestions.
DUB
04-19-2018, 08:50 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Sorry for the vagueness. The front clip is on the car, it is the original, the body is on the frame. The wheels and tires are also on the car, but on wheel dollies. The inner skirts are originals, took them out to make repairs and remove undercoating kind of regretting it now. The rad support and hood are also the originals and also presently off the car. I did a frame off resto and thought i might have alignment problems if I installed the skirts before putting the body back on frame.
04-19-2018, 06:16 PM
#4
Race Director
Thank you for answering my questions. It means a lot when people do that.
Knowing that these inner skirts were previously installed. I would prep the old remaining adhesive is 24 or 36 grit on a Rolloc disc. I would take the old adhesive down as far as possible that you feel comfortable with... if not remove it entirely.
Trying to make the surface as rough as possible by making sure I am not spinning my grinder at MAX rpm. The slower the turning speed of the grinding disc often cuts better...makes the disc last longer and can put a more aggressive scratch in the prepped surface.
Do the same to the inner skirt where you know the adhesive will be applied.
BE CAREFUL AND WATCHFUL of how thin you may cause the flange on the inner skirts when oyu prep them. So if you grab them and they ahve some flex in them...then they may require a layer of mat and resin to make this flange a bit more rigid.
I would then go in and test fit the inner skirts and mark the inside of the fenders with a pencil and make marks so you know where it needs to go.
I would use Vette Panel Adhesive to bond these in place. BUT keep in mind I use it all the time and I know how to back down on the hardener when I mix it to give me more working time IF I need it.
SO...if you chose to go that route...it will depend on the air space between the inner skirt flange that will bond to the inside of your fenders and the fenders. Mixing up the VPA and using a spreader and forcing it in the seam until you can see it begin to come out the front side. Sometimes you might need to put something thin in the seam to slightly open up the seam and then pull it out once you have applied the VPA. Once you do this...allow it to cure.
Keeping in mind that you have already ALSO installed the radiator support and hood so you KNOW that the inner skirts are where they need to be so the hood will open/close properly.
Then you can do the area behind the tire area. Then I do the area above the upper control arms so I can set the height of the top hood surround IF NEEDED so when the hood is shut...the top hood surround is flush with the hood when it is closed.
DUB
Knowing that these inner skirts were previously installed. I would prep the old remaining adhesive is 24 or 36 grit on a Rolloc disc. I would take the old adhesive down as far as possible that you feel comfortable with... if not remove it entirely.
Trying to make the surface as rough as possible by making sure I am not spinning my grinder at MAX rpm. The slower the turning speed of the grinding disc often cuts better...makes the disc last longer and can put a more aggressive scratch in the prepped surface.
Do the same to the inner skirt where you know the adhesive will be applied.
BE CAREFUL AND WATCHFUL of how thin you may cause the flange on the inner skirts when oyu prep them. So if you grab them and they ahve some flex in them...then they may require a layer of mat and resin to make this flange a bit more rigid.
I would then go in and test fit the inner skirts and mark the inside of the fenders with a pencil and make marks so you know where it needs to go.
I would use Vette Panel Adhesive to bond these in place. BUT keep in mind I use it all the time and I know how to back down on the hardener when I mix it to give me more working time IF I need it.
SO...if you chose to go that route...it will depend on the air space between the inner skirt flange that will bond to the inside of your fenders and the fenders. Mixing up the VPA and using a spreader and forcing it in the seam until you can see it begin to come out the front side. Sometimes you might need to put something thin in the seam to slightly open up the seam and then pull it out once you have applied the VPA. Once you do this...allow it to cure.
Keeping in mind that you have already ALSO installed the radiator support and hood so you KNOW that the inner skirts are where they need to be so the hood will open/close properly.
Then you can do the area behind the tire area. Then I do the area above the upper control arms so I can set the height of the top hood surround IF NEEDED so when the hood is shut...the top hood surround is flush with the hood when it is closed.
DUB
04-20-2018, 11:59 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
Thank you for the advise.
I have already removed all the old adhesive from the the clip and and skirts. I had originally marked where the skirts were before removing but, in cleaning off the old adhesive I lost my markings as well.
I've been using VPA mostly as a filler. I'm glad I asked in advance as I would probably have bonded the control arm area second then the area behind the tire next,
i forgot to mention that the header bar is also removed. Should this be installed first or does it not matter?
I have already removed all the old adhesive from the the clip and and skirts. I had originally marked where the skirts were before removing but, in cleaning off the old adhesive I lost my markings as well.
I've been using VPA mostly as a filler. I'm glad I asked in advance as I would probably have bonded the control arm area second then the area behind the tire next,
i forgot to mention that the header bar is also removed. Should this be installed first or does it not matter?
04-20-2018, 05:48 PM
#6
Race Director
I feel the header bar needs to be installed prior to the skirts...due to the skirts get secured to this header bar via the gussets that bolt to the front of the skirt area.
IF you are installing the header bar...and it is not the original one with the rivets and fiberglass bonding strip. And you are installing a new design that does not require the fiberglass bonding strip.
VPA CAN NOT.....repeat ..CAN NOT be used to bond this steel beam to the hood surround.
DUB
IF you are installing the header bar...and it is not the original one with the rivets and fiberglass bonding strip. And you are installing a new design that does not require the fiberglass bonding strip.
VPA CAN NOT.....repeat ..CAN NOT be used to bond this steel beam to the hood surround.
DUB
Last edited by DUB; 04-20-2018 at 05:51 PM.
04-20-2018, 06:07 PM
#7
Advanced
Thread Starter
Sorry, left out some details. It is the original header bar and I re-riveted a new bonding strip to it.
What is the best way to to line the header up and get it in place?
What is the best way to to line the header up and get it in place?
04-21-2018, 05:25 PM
#8
Race Director
You are aware that the rivets can cause for a problem like it is well known that they do...and cause those raised dimples on the top hood surround.
You might have to have the inner skirts in place but not bonded so you can get the outer gusset supports that hold the ends of the header bar.
Your headlight actuator supports are what is going to be used in order for you to get the header bar in place and marked so you can install it.
And the gussets on your inner skirts also help you in this in making sure that they can also be attached.
There are indexing hole in the actuator supports that line up with holes in the header bar so you can index them and it can help you make sure the actuator support is correctly positioned so when you install your headlight doors...they also can be adjusted correctly. The indexing hole is located on the actuator support and basically in line with the THREE holes/notch that are used to bolt the actuator support to the header beam.
If you use VPA on this or some SEM adhesive...it will take a bit of testing and getting set up and tested. Possibly getting the hood installed also can help to make sure the edge of the top hood surround that meets with the hood edge is not up or down to far an thus needed to be addressed.
DUB
You might have to have the inner skirts in place but not bonded so you can get the outer gusset supports that hold the ends of the header bar.
Your headlight actuator supports are what is going to be used in order for you to get the header bar in place and marked so you can install it.
And the gussets on your inner skirts also help you in this in making sure that they can also be attached.
There are indexing hole in the actuator supports that line up with holes in the header bar so you can index them and it can help you make sure the actuator support is correctly positioned so when you install your headlight doors...they also can be adjusted correctly. The indexing hole is located on the actuator support and basically in line with the THREE holes/notch that are used to bolt the actuator support to the header beam.
If you use VPA on this or some SEM adhesive...it will take a bit of testing and getting set up and tested. Possibly getting the hood installed also can help to make sure the edge of the top hood surround that meets with the hood edge is not up or down to far an thus needed to be addressed.
DUB
04-25-2018, 09:01 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Yes, aware of the dimple problem caused by the rivets. Mine was one of the few that didn't have that problem. I was thinking to apply adhesive in between each rivet so as the rivets would not come in contact with the surround?
Seems I'm not ready yet to install the skirts, need to do some more work.
I've been looking through the parts I've removed from
the car as it's been awhile since I removed but, can't seem to find the gussets you speak of. I've seen pics of a reinforcement bracket that is shaped like a triangle in parts catalogs. But, I see no reference to it in the AIM or any provision for it on my skirts or header bar. Could it be that it was not used on my car, as it is an early '68? Doesn't appear that anything connects the skirts to the header . All I have and remember is a long bumper support that runs from the frame horn thru the skirt to each corner of the front bumper.
Seems I'm not ready yet to install the skirts, need to do some more work.
I've been looking through the parts I've removed from
the car as it's been awhile since I removed but, can't seem to find the gussets you speak of. I've seen pics of a reinforcement bracket that is shaped like a triangle in parts catalogs. But, I see no reference to it in the AIM or any provision for it on my skirts or header bar. Could it be that it was not used on my car, as it is an early '68? Doesn't appear that anything connects the skirts to the header . All I have and remember is a long bumper support that runs from the frame horn thru the skirt to each corner of the front bumper.
04-25-2018, 03:03 PM
#10
Race Director
If your inner skirt does not have holes in them for these gussets. And you do not have a caged nut at the end of your header bar...then the car did not have them.
I know this to be true due to I have two 1968's here and one does not have them.....and the other does ..and that 'other one' is only because I installed the newer header bar and installed them on that 1968.
DUB
I know this to be true due to I have two 1968's here and one does not have them.....and the other does ..and that 'other one' is only because I installed the newer header bar and installed them on that 1968.
DUB
04-26-2018, 08:44 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
Since you have '68's there, do you know if the front lower valance panel has openings on left and right side or totally closed? Mine doesn't have the openings, and it appears to be the original. I think I read somewhere in the past that some 68's had openings and some didn't .
04-26-2018, 08:48 AM
#12
Race Director
I really need you to post a photo of the are you are talking about...because I am kinda 'flying blind'.
YES...there are square holes in the front of the inner skirt that allow the bumper extension bracket to pass through it.
But that is all I know and cannot do any more without seeing what you are talking about.
DUB
YES...there are square holes in the front of the inner skirt that allow the bumper extension bracket to pass through it.
But that is all I know and cannot do any more without seeing what you are talking about.
DUB
04-26-2018, 03:28 PM
#14
Race Director
They are open just like what you have shown above.
DUB
DUB
04-27-2018, 08:21 AM
#16
Race Director
It may be possible. Depending on how early of a 1968 your car actually is. That the NCRS or other judging source can let you know that it was made that way due to your car being so early of a build prior to a change in its design from GM.
OR...due to me not being there and a photo of the actual part that is on your car. Someone could have laminated up those holes. The texture of the backside area where those holes are now known to be. If it is smooth..it may be factory press molded. If it is rough...it may have been modified by someone.
Hard to say without concrete proof.
DUB
OR...due to me not being there and a photo of the actual part that is on your car. Someone could have laminated up those holes. The texture of the backside area where those holes are now known to be. If it is smooth..it may be factory press molded. If it is rough...it may have been modified by someone.
Hard to say without concrete proof.
DUB
