Prepping 1985 corvette
10-31-2018, 07:01 PM
#21
Race Director
You can use water if you want but using automotive grade lacquer thinner is what I use when I use chemical stripper.
Yes chemical stripper can hurt the body but if you know how to use it and understand what is going on...there is not need to fear using it. Think of it like you telling someone on the internet how to drive a car and when they mash down on the accelerator pedal they loose control of the car and crash. BUT if they understand what the accelerator pedal is and how to use it...they will then not have to worry about crashing a car again....so-to-speak.
When it comes to sanding...you use whatever you find works for you. I wrap sandpaper around wood paint mixing sticks and around cut sections of radiator hoses and so on.
It has everything to do with you ability to 'feel' the panel and know what it needs to get it right.
DUB
Yes chemical stripper can hurt the body but if you know how to use it and understand what is going on...there is not need to fear using it. Think of it like you telling someone on the internet how to drive a car and when they mash down on the accelerator pedal they loose control of the car and crash. BUT if they understand what the accelerator pedal is and how to use it...they will then not have to worry about crashing a car again....so-to-speak.
When it comes to sanding...you use whatever you find works for you. I wrap sandpaper around wood paint mixing sticks and around cut sections of radiator hoses and so on.
It has everything to do with you ability to 'feel' the panel and know what it needs to get it right.
DUB
11-03-2018, 01:22 PM
#22
Ok thanks a lot for explaining everything good. I’m going to talk with the painting place about them sanding it because I know I want all of the paint off, there’s just too many peeling and chipped places to trust the new paint on top of the old paint. If they won’t sand all of it off or it costs too much more I will do it myself. I don’t have a lot of room in the garage to sand but if I have to I can do it with your advice
on how to sand. I know I will be taking the bumpers, mirrors, spoiler, and rocker panels off though.
on how to sand. I know I will be taking the bumpers, mirrors, spoiler, and rocker panels off though.
11-25-2018, 02:10 PM
#23
Ok, so I took the corvette to Maaco yesterday to see what they say about it. I know some Maaco’s aren’t very good but I think this Maaco is a better shop that pays more attention to details than other Maaco places. They said you would have to be very careful if I were to sand the paint off because the bad spots by the doors will need some repairing. I’m thinking I will just have them sand it then since it will need repairing anyway because their person that preps it does high end work they said so I figure they should be able to prep it good. I asked them about if I should remove the bumpers and they said they should be able to paint it good with just the spoiler removed but I figure I would ask you since you know more about painting corvettes. So what do you think all needs removed? They said just the spoiler and I would remove the emblems too. I was thinking I would remove the bumpers, spoiler, rocker panels, mirrors, and all lights. They said that wouldn’t need done because it would be easier and just as good leaving it together and would take a chance of scratching it when I put it back together. So do you think they can paint it good with the bumpers and lights on? I thought it would be too hard for them to tape it off and their would be overspray in some of the tail lights and corner lenses and the paint wouldn’t go in the corners right. I know you would know more about the painting of a c4 so I would ask your advice.
11-25-2018, 04:06 PM
#24
Race Director
I will put it this way. Can it be painted all together...YES...can that way FAIL...YES it can.
Simply put... I do not care who you are, there is NO WAY that a person can prep the area where the bumpers meet due to there will ALWAYS BE a shiny line where the sand paper cannot get down to and scuff it. Now this shiny line can be as wide as a human hair and it may seem like it will not be able to lift in time. BUT..you can still run into the paint 'bridging' and THAT is where you can have problems due to the bumpers was still left on the car. The same thing holds true at the mirror gasket. There is no way to get all of the paint prepped right up to the edge of the mirror gasket....which MAY come back and haunt you if the paint begins to peel off or lift. The door handle area also.
I am sure you have seen paint jobs where the urethane bumpers meet the body and at that seam the paint wants to lift or pop off.. WELL that is why.
SO...I know I would have to remove your bumpers...or at least separate them enough so I can prep the flange surface and allow paint to get in between the bumper and body so I do not a get any lifting.
Also I am a bit concerned that the guy doing this does who as you put it "does high end work' would want to do it that way and even leave in the taillights and side markers. I myself would have to have them out so paint can get to where it needs to go to prevent paint from popping off...ESPECIALLY AFTER I prepped it correctly. Just taking parts of the a car and not prepping the area is also major waste of time.
As for scratching a part when they get installed,. That is an excuse BECAUSE if a person is paying attention they will not scratch parts due to I do it all the time with no ill effects. Often times some people are in such a darn hurry they try to assemble the car when the parts are still not dry and can leave an imprint.
Keep in mind that if the car is entirely stripped of all paint and primer and they prime it. IT also makes a huge difference in how well they prep all of the hard to get areas that will or possible can come back and peel off due to the primer was not prepped correctly.
DUB
Simply put... I do not care who you are, there is NO WAY that a person can prep the area where the bumpers meet due to there will ALWAYS BE a shiny line where the sand paper cannot get down to and scuff it. Now this shiny line can be as wide as a human hair and it may seem like it will not be able to lift in time. BUT..you can still run into the paint 'bridging' and THAT is where you can have problems due to the bumpers was still left on the car. The same thing holds true at the mirror gasket. There is no way to get all of the paint prepped right up to the edge of the mirror gasket....which MAY come back and haunt you if the paint begins to peel off or lift. The door handle area also.
I am sure you have seen paint jobs where the urethane bumpers meet the body and at that seam the paint wants to lift or pop off.. WELL that is why.
SO...I know I would have to remove your bumpers...or at least separate them enough so I can prep the flange surface and allow paint to get in between the bumper and body so I do not a get any lifting.
Also I am a bit concerned that the guy doing this does who as you put it "does high end work' would want to do it that way and even leave in the taillights and side markers. I myself would have to have them out so paint can get to where it needs to go to prevent paint from popping off...ESPECIALLY AFTER I prepped it correctly. Just taking parts of the a car and not prepping the area is also major waste of time.
As for scratching a part when they get installed,. That is an excuse BECAUSE if a person is paying attention they will not scratch parts due to I do it all the time with no ill effects. Often times some people are in such a darn hurry they try to assemble the car when the parts are still not dry and can leave an imprint.
Keep in mind that if the car is entirely stripped of all paint and primer and they prime it. IT also makes a huge difference in how well they prep all of the hard to get areas that will or possible can come back and peel off due to the primer was not prepped correctly.
DUB
11-25-2018, 07:57 PM
#25
Ok, I will remove whatever you think I should remove but I will leave the sanding up to them because I feel like I could mess something like that up since they think it needs repaired at the bubbled up spots on the doors. There’s a few spots where they said that bad body filler was used so they will need to repair that. I took it to someone at a local body shop that is known for doing good work and they said the same thing about it needing some repair so I guess I just won’t do the sanding part. I will just remove whatever needs removed because they won’t remove the body parts and I would rather do that myself anyway because I know how to. Do you think the rocker panels need removed too? I was thinking to remove the lights, mirrors, emblems, and bumpers but should I take off the rocker panels under the doors too? Thanks for all of your advice. I didn’t think they would be able to sand it good with the bumpers and especially the mirrors still on and it would probably eventually peel too. I will just be careful not to scratch anything putting it back together.
Last edited by 85 CRVET; 11-25-2018 at 08:10 PM.
11-26-2018, 08:48 AM
#26
Race Director
I would remove the rocker panels also due to they are not that hard to remove and once they are off they are MUCH easier to prep due to being able to be set on a support stand and prepped instead of someone attempting to lay on the ground and do it as successfully.
I know that I also remove the outer window sealing strips at the top edges of the doors and also the antenna bezel and outside door handles. but that is your choice if you want to do that or not..
Removing the headlight bezels is also not a bad idea so they do not get messed up and IF they do the prep as needed it will make it easier for them to mask off those gaps so when they prime the car the primer does not get all into and around your headlight parts. I remove the headlight doors so I can strip and prep them OFF the car and this also allows me to prep the edge of the hood where the headlight doors are located so no paint peels off in time.
The black body side moldings are going to be your nemesis. They either come off easily or the nuts are stuck on the staked studs and then they spin. and then they often times the nuts ( if possible) need to be carefully cut off the stud or destroy the molding to get it off. I know I would NOT leave them on to do this paint job.
The rear back glass comes out so when I paint. the area below the hinge area of the back glass it is like how the factory did it so it is shiny and NOT all dry looking with over spray all on it. I also remove the rear back glass w/strip so that channel can be correctly prepped and painted and not all over sprayed.
There are so many ways this can be done it all depends on the level of the end result...which in turn...depends on how it is prepped and painted to achieve that end result.
DUB
I know that I also remove the outer window sealing strips at the top edges of the doors and also the antenna bezel and outside door handles. but that is your choice if you want to do that or not..
Removing the headlight bezels is also not a bad idea so they do not get messed up and IF they do the prep as needed it will make it easier for them to mask off those gaps so when they prime the car the primer does not get all into and around your headlight parts. I remove the headlight doors so I can strip and prep them OFF the car and this also allows me to prep the edge of the hood where the headlight doors are located so no paint peels off in time.
The black body side moldings are going to be your nemesis. They either come off easily or the nuts are stuck on the staked studs and then they spin. and then they often times the nuts ( if possible) need to be carefully cut off the stud or destroy the molding to get it off. I know I would NOT leave them on to do this paint job.
The rear back glass comes out so when I paint. the area below the hinge area of the back glass it is like how the factory did it so it is shiny and NOT all dry looking with over spray all on it. I also remove the rear back glass w/strip so that channel can be correctly prepped and painted and not all over sprayed.
There are so many ways this can be done it all depends on the level of the end result...which in turn...depends on how it is prepped and painted to achieve that end result.
DUB
11-26-2018, 12:10 PM
#27
I would remove the rocker panels also due to they are not that hard to remove and once they are off they are MUCH easier to prep due to being able to be set on a support stand and prepped instead of someone attempting to lay on the ground and do it as successfully.
I know that I also remove the outer window sealing strips at the top edges of the doors and also the antenna bezel and outside door handles. but that is your choice if you want to do that or not..
Removing the headlight bezels is also not a bad idea so they do not get messed up and IF they do the prep as needed it will make it easier for them to mask off those gaps so when they prime the car the primer does not get all into and around your headlight parts. I remove the headlight doors so I can strip and prep them OFF the car and this also allows me to prep the edge of the hood where the headlight doors are located so no paint peels off in time.
The black body side moldings are going to be your nemesis. They either come off easily or the nuts are stuck on the staked studs and then they spin. and then they often times the nuts ( if possible) need to be carefully cut off the stud or destroy the molding to get it off. I know I would NOT leave them on to do this paint job.
The rear back glass comes out so when I paint. the area below the hinge area of the back glass it is like how the factory did it so it is shiny and NOT all dry looking with over spray all on it. I also remove the rear back glass w/strip so that channel can be correctly prepped and painted and not all over sprayed.
There are so many ways this can be done it all depends on the level of the end result...which in turn...depends on how it is prepped and painted to achieve that end result.
DUB
I know that I also remove the outer window sealing strips at the top edges of the doors and also the antenna bezel and outside door handles. but that is your choice if you want to do that or not..
Removing the headlight bezels is also not a bad idea so they do not get messed up and IF they do the prep as needed it will make it easier for them to mask off those gaps so when they prime the car the primer does not get all into and around your headlight parts. I remove the headlight doors so I can strip and prep them OFF the car and this also allows me to prep the edge of the hood where the headlight doors are located so no paint peels off in time.
The black body side moldings are going to be your nemesis. They either come off easily or the nuts are stuck on the staked studs and then they spin. and then they often times the nuts ( if possible) need to be carefully cut off the stud or destroy the molding to get it off. I know I would NOT leave them on to do this paint job.
The rear back glass comes out so when I paint. the area below the hinge area of the back glass it is like how the factory did it so it is shiny and NOT all dry looking with over spray all on it. I also remove the rear back glass w/strip so that channel can be correctly prepped and painted and not all over sprayed.
There are so many ways this can be done it all depends on the level of the end result...which in turn...depends on how it is prepped and painted to achieve that end result.
DUB
12-19-2018, 12:18 AM
#28
I have started removing some of the body moldings. I just started to take one of the nuts off each side of the door moldings and they were really loose so the nut didn't spin with the stud. I think I’m going to end up leaving the bumpers on because I will have to drive it there. It’s a little further of a drive than I thought and I wouldn’t want to trailer it that far on an interstate. I think I can get to the bumper moldings with them on the car. Do you think I should leave the wheel wells out because I will take them off to get to the molding nuts? Or not since I have to drive it an hour away and dirt could get in there. I’m thinking I will remove the tail light lenses but leave the bulbs hanging in there and push them out of the way once I drive it to the paint shop so it is legal.
12-19-2018, 09:18 AM
#29
Race Director
I know you can remove the rear bumper moldings but they are a pain to do so.
The front bumper molding can only be removed when the front bumper is off the car.
As for the rear wheel well liners. The rear bumper will be flopping around where the missing wheel well liner is not attached to the end of the bumper in the wheel well opening. NOT a good idea.
I myself would put it on a flat bed roll back and trailer it and not think twice about it. But that may be do to I get so may in from very long distances where nothing goes wrong. And with it being on a tow companies flat bed...it is under their insurance anyway. And if the tow company is good ...they would use the 'T' hooks and put them in the 4 areas where GM made it so they can be used. OR...put the fabric straps over each tire.
DUB
The front bumper molding can only be removed when the front bumper is off the car.
As for the rear wheel well liners. The rear bumper will be flopping around where the missing wheel well liner is not attached to the end of the bumper in the wheel well opening. NOT a good idea.
I myself would put it on a flat bed roll back and trailer it and not think twice about it. But that may be do to I get so may in from very long distances where nothing goes wrong. And with it being on a tow companies flat bed...it is under their insurance anyway. And if the tow company is good ...they would use the 'T' hooks and put them in the 4 areas where GM made it so they can be used. OR...put the fabric straps over each tire.
DUB
12-19-2018, 08:08 PM
#30
Ok, well I guess I will remove all of the moldings except the middle front one on the bumper and put the wheel wells back in then. I’ll see how the others go to see if I will mess with the front one or not since that needs removed to get to it. And I will also remove the mirrors, emblems, spoiler, window sweeps. and lights. What do you think I should do about the headlights? I know I would probably still want them to be functional because it’s over an hour away and I may be bringing it back home at night but I don’t know if I should remove the doors to them or what. I can see that the last person who painted it left the moldings in and taped them off because there’s chips around those areas and some paint on the edges of the moldings. I can see why you said they need removed.
12-20-2018, 08:59 AM
#31
Race Director
Because IF it has..I will see some type of incorrect taping that will let me know right away that it was shot on. AND if they masked these aras off. I KNOW the paint around these area was more than likely NOT prepped correctly. Due to if they do not take things off...what is to say they even took the time to really prep it correctly.
The headlight bezels and doors are an easy 'on and off' job. Simple to figure out. The headlight bezels can be removed so they can be prepped and painted OFF the car. And the leadlight door can be removed...prepped an then set in place mask off the seam and painted and then bolted back up.
SO the actual headlight assembly does not need to be taken out of the hood....unless you want to an hassle with getting it aligned back up again.
DUB
Last edited by DUB; 12-20-2018 at 09:59 AM.
12-20-2018, 09:30 AM
#32
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I realize that you don't have an unlimited budget for a paint job, but from what you have described as to how Maaco suggested prepping your car, I would not take it there, you will not be happy with them cutting the corners that they plan to
12-20-2018, 10:53 AM
#33
Race Director
I also understand that this process has taken a complete 180 and it went from him sanding off the paint to letting Maaco do it.
It is what it is.... and hopefully the guy who does good work there is going to do what is needed to make this paint job last....and knows how to address any issues in the body where the paint is blistering off.. Because simply removing the paint and priming it again MAY NOT stop the problem from happening again.
DUB
It is what it is.... and hopefully the guy who does good work there is going to do what is needed to make this paint job last....and knows how to address any issues in the body where the paint is blistering off.. Because simply removing the paint and priming it again MAY NOT stop the problem from happening again.
DUB
12-20-2018, 11:58 AM
#34
Oh, well that sounds a lot easier and better with the headlights then. I know Maaco tries to prep cars faster but that’s why I will be removing the parts that should be removed so they can’t just tape them off and paint around things that should have been removed. I was planning on sanding it myself before but there’s not as much room in the garage it’s in now and I don’t have a building I could put it in over the winter so it would have to be done over the summer which isn’t when I would want to do it. Plus I showed them the blistering part and they were saying how that needs extra care so they will bring in that person who preps the cars better, who wasn’t there the day I showed them the car. Hey said he will need to see it to give a food estimate on how long it will take him to repair and prep the messed up parts. So that made me afraid that I could hurt the body because I’ve never done something like that before.
12-20-2018, 12:29 PM
#35
They showed me all around their building when I came to them and some of the finished work. One was some 70’s muscle car and it was painted a bright light blue and it looked really good to me. They even pointed out any small mess up they could find, like a tiny bit of over spray on a small edge of the chrome that you could barely see and a couple of dust specs that got on it. There was some there that was being prepped too and you could tell they sand down the whole car, not like some Maaco’s that I have heard about. One of them was a truck and they took the whole bed off it to prep it for paint. The only thing I really wondered about is that they won’t wet sand and buff a car. I kind of wanted that because I thought that made it shine better but the others they showed me looked great to me and they were buffed. Here is a picture of a c5 they painted and prepped a couple months ago.
12-20-2018, 05:59 PM
#37
Race Director
In the photos above a person might think that this is good...but just like I had mentioned in another post on this thread.....I see some things that are not the best they can be. You can see how they primed on the gasket for the mirror and did nothing with the door handle and looks like they painted right over the lock cylinder. Removing the rear quarter panel side marker light is a snap and they did not even take the minute or two to take it out and spent more time masking it off than it would take to remove it.
It is THOSE things that can cause for paint job to fail and begin to lift due to there is no way to correctly prep that area with them still attached to the car.
DUB
It is THOSE things that can cause for paint job to fail and begin to lift due to there is no way to correctly prep that area with them still attached to the car.
DUB
12-20-2018, 06:56 PM
#38
In the photos above a person might think that this is good...but just like I had mentioned in another post on this thread.....I see some things that are not the best they can be. You can see how they primed on the gasket for the mirror and did nothing with the door handle and looks like they painted right over the lock cylinder. Removing the rear quarter panel side marker light is a snap and they did not even take the minute or two to take it out and spent more time masking it off than it would take to remove it.
It is THOSE things that can cause for paint job to fail and begin to lift due to there is no way to correctly prep that area with them still attached to the car.
DUB
It is THOSE things that can cause for paint job to fail and begin to lift due to there is no way to correctly prep that area with them still attached to the car.
DUB
12-21-2018, 09:30 AM
#39
Race Director
Yes.... it appears that they prep the panel for paint with good sanding practices regardless of what I previously commented on. BUT...it is those 'things' that they did not do is what often times comes back and causes problems so then people now will talk crap about them due to a failure in their paint work later on. I know you will have these parts removed so they should NOT be a concern to you. BUT... ..what bothers me is the fact that the added time to remove these parts should not cause for the owner of this car to freak out in the added costs in order to get the RIGHT job done on the car. My feeling on this is that IF that yellow Corvette were in my shop...the price quote would have included removing these parts and it would not be debatable. I know I would not take photos of it looking like that with primer applied on it and those parts on it. But that is just me. Keep in mind...the devil is in the details. 'Cutting corners in prep' can come back and haunt you. Using the photos above as an example... I could not say.. "Look at how good I prepped the body for paint " when I have these parts on the car. It is completely disregarding the importance of the word PREP..
Yes...about 99% of the time I will need to wet sand and buff the paint due to something I see that I do not like. A super small speck of lint or a little bit more texture on the side of panel and so on. I personally do not freak out having to buff my paint jobs due to it allows me to get it to a level of quality that does not just come out of the paint gin like that. I actually enjoy buffing my paint jobs.
Now some painters do not know how to sand and buff. And when a car is painted all together...with a mirror on it for example. If the paint around the mirror needs to be addressed...the result may not turn out quite as planned due to trying to get it right in that area would actually take more time than if it were NOT on the car in the first place....SO...with that......that is why many painters do not sand and buff due to they do not take much of the car for a paint job. They already have it in their head as that when they hang up the paint gun and un mask the car it is ready for delivery. Like I wrote..."many painters". do this and..not ALL painters do this.
How shiny a clear is, is often times dependent on the clear itself....and how it was shot and IF it was not allowed to sit in the booth over night without the fans running due to the solvents/vapors that come out of it during the curing process lay back down on the top surfaces due to no air movement and you can get 'die-back'....which now makes the clear look dull.
Getting the clear to lay down really flat is also left up to the painter and their style of painting and how they set-up the gun and how the clear acts when it has been applied. Some clears can flow out for a while after it was shot on the car before it locks up and begins to harden. So..it is up to the painter to KNOW how the clear they use works....and THEN it all depends on what they feel is an acceptable level of texture or shine..
Which is WHY on the side surfaces it may have more texture than the top surfaces where it can level out and get much flatter and slicker looking.....hence a more vibrant shine. And the texture that is in the side panels may or may not need to be sanded and buffed out to reduce that texture so they look much slicker. Because trying to get the sides of the car to be as slick as the top surfaces is DANGEROUS GAME WHILE PAINTING and a painter can have a run or curtain on that panel very easily when the clear wants to move. Kind of like an avalanche. All looks good and then you come back and you can see the clear is wanting to begin to flow downwards and create a run or curtain. And all you can do is watch it...much like an avalanche.
And it ALL boils down to how much you are actually paying for this. Because TIME is MONEY. Because the best paint job on bad body work is not good...and the best body work covered with bad paint...is also not good. They go hand in hand....and then it comes to refining the texture of the paint which is MORE money IF the owner wants it slicker. Many shops will shoot it and it can have roughly same texture as factory...while other people ( like myself) want the clear to be as slick as the windshield and no texture....obviously this depends on the job. When I repair Corvettes and paint some panels due to collision damage adn only a part of the car is painted... I match the factory texture/shine so you can not tell it was painted....but on my over all paint jobs...it is much slicker.
DUB
Yes...about 99% of the time I will need to wet sand and buff the paint due to something I see that I do not like. A super small speck of lint or a little bit more texture on the side of panel and so on. I personally do not freak out having to buff my paint jobs due to it allows me to get it to a level of quality that does not just come out of the paint gin like that. I actually enjoy buffing my paint jobs.
Now some painters do not know how to sand and buff. And when a car is painted all together...with a mirror on it for example. If the paint around the mirror needs to be addressed...the result may not turn out quite as planned due to trying to get it right in that area would actually take more time than if it were NOT on the car in the first place....SO...with that......that is why many painters do not sand and buff due to they do not take much of the car for a paint job. They already have it in their head as that when they hang up the paint gun and un mask the car it is ready for delivery. Like I wrote..."many painters". do this and..not ALL painters do this.
How shiny a clear is, is often times dependent on the clear itself....and how it was shot and IF it was not allowed to sit in the booth over night without the fans running due to the solvents/vapors that come out of it during the curing process lay back down on the top surfaces due to no air movement and you can get 'die-back'....which now makes the clear look dull.
Getting the clear to lay down really flat is also left up to the painter and their style of painting and how they set-up the gun and how the clear acts when it has been applied. Some clears can flow out for a while after it was shot on the car before it locks up and begins to harden. So..it is up to the painter to KNOW how the clear they use works....and THEN it all depends on what they feel is an acceptable level of texture or shine..
Which is WHY on the side surfaces it may have more texture than the top surfaces where it can level out and get much flatter and slicker looking.....hence a more vibrant shine. And the texture that is in the side panels may or may not need to be sanded and buffed out to reduce that texture so they look much slicker. Because trying to get the sides of the car to be as slick as the top surfaces is DANGEROUS GAME WHILE PAINTING and a painter can have a run or curtain on that panel very easily when the clear wants to move. Kind of like an avalanche. All looks good and then you come back and you can see the clear is wanting to begin to flow downwards and create a run or curtain. And all you can do is watch it...much like an avalanche.
And it ALL boils down to how much you are actually paying for this. Because TIME is MONEY. Because the best paint job on bad body work is not good...and the best body work covered with bad paint...is also not good. They go hand in hand....and then it comes to refining the texture of the paint which is MORE money IF the owner wants it slicker. Many shops will shoot it and it can have roughly same texture as factory...while other people ( like myself) want the clear to be as slick as the windshield and no texture....obviously this depends on the job. When I repair Corvettes and paint some panels due to collision damage adn only a part of the car is painted... I match the factory texture/shine so you can not tell it was painted....but on my over all paint jobs...it is much slicker.
DUB
12-21-2018, 01:31 PM
#40
Ok, thanks for explaining all of that and thanks for all of the time you have taken to help me understand more about painting and what needs to be done. When I take it to them they said it should be around $2,500 for them to do it. To give the exact estimate they said the prepping person would have to see it though but that was there estimate with about half of that being extra for the repairs and things like sanding. I’m thinking it will look good without wet sanding after looking at the others they painted but if it is just more dull than I thought then I will have to find someone who can buff paint jobs to pay them. Probably not better than the factory like you were saying your paints were because you know quite a bit about painting it sounds like. I bet your cost to paint would be a lot more expensive because you take the time to make sure it is perfect and it probably looks like a show car afterwords. Thanks a lot for explaining everything you have.