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We had an AC-130U Gunship in Benghazi, Obama refused to authorize it to fire!

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We had an AC-130U Gunship in Benghazi, Obama refused to authorize it to fire!

 
Old 10-28-2012, 08:33 PM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
2 hours away, grump.










And that's prolly not including prep time.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:53 PM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by Apothecary View Post
2 hours away, grump.










And that's prolly not including prep time.
And the attack lasted 7 hours. They could have had 5 less

Last edited by VITE1; 10-28-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:08 PM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by VITE1 View Post
And the attacked lasted 7 hours. They could have had 5 less
Sure. 30 minutes of shooting and 6.5 hours of kero fire and dancing.



Spin it any way ta want.


Nobody said you need to accept the facts from your own nutball party web site. It's a free country.




:roc k:
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:10 PM
  #264  
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Originally Posted by Apothecary View Post
Dayum.


/thread right there


Even The Blaze proves out the c130 story was a far right loonies lie and total garbage.


My pov stands vindicated.

Time for you rabid dogs to turn on Beck.
In the real world 2 is less than 7.

Again you lose.

Facts beats out ignant any time of day.

Do you have any idea that the term "on standby" means?

BTW, I have seldom seen any person (even a Democrat) spend so much energy making fun of Americans killed in action - other than those Baptist(?) clowns that protest at soldiers funerals.

You are a filthy roach. I would like to know if you display this disgusting cheer at the death of USA servicemen in front of your family. You are a disgusting individual.

Fugget man, I may need to ask a mod to temp ban me so I don't let loose with what I really want to say to you.

Last edited by RC45; 10-28-2012 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:22 PM
  #265  
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SS and Apoc, what say you? Do you agree the NCA did nothing?
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:22 PM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by RetiredSFC 97 View Post
You sure about that?
Absolutely positive. When the operating height got bumped up back in mid 00's they found out the 25mm round sbegan tumbling about 2K ft AGL. Geneva violation, they yanked almost all of them immediately. 2 of my close friends are Spooky drivers.

There may be a few Spectre's with them equipped, but the phase out is replacing those with some newfangled FLIR system.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:48 PM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by cole925 View Post
Absolutely positive. When the operating height got bumped up back in mid 00's they found out the 25mm round sbegan tumbling about 2K ft AGL. Geneva violation, they yanked almost all of them immediately. 2 of my close friends are Spooky drivers.

There may be a few Spectre's with them equipped, but the phase out is replacing those with some newfangled FLIR system.
That is just not true. Tumbling reduces accuracy I can believe that, but if I can kill you with shrapnel, I can run over you, I can bury you alive in your trench, I can send plasma copper at 5,000 FPS through you, I can also kill you with an unstable bullet. Also, I'm sure they mostly fire the 25mm HE round, it explodes, and kills with shrapnel. The whole plane is an area weapon.

Last edited by LTC Z06; 10-28-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:00 PM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by Apothecary View Post
Sure. 30 minutes of shooting and 6.5 hours of kero fire and dancing.



Spin it any way ta want.


Nobody said you need to accept the facts from your own nutball party web site. It's a free country.




:roc k:
WTF are you talking about?

We had planes that could reach them in an hours( F16) and the AC130's in about two hours. We also had a fast reaction force that could have been there in 4 hours tops. Plus a CIA team near by.

The fact that NOTHING was done is telling. Why they did not put assets in motion to be available IF needed is the first clue that the Admin made decisions that were of purely a political nature.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:18 PM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by LTC Z06 View Post
That is just not true.
Don't know what you want me to tell you, that's from the horse's mouth (pilot). None of the crew was happy when the trainables got yanked.

Originally Posted by LTC Z06
The whole plane is an area weapon.
This is not correct. Point targets are common, especially since they are what determine the parking space assignments at Hurlburt.

Last edited by cole925; 10-28-2012 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:19 PM
  #270  
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u.s.s stennis was 200-250 miles offshore,F/A18 fighters were 15-30 mins out [if they were still in deck] ,and if 2 SEALS were lazing a mortor postion[and taking incoming mortors] as-per CNN/MSNBC, those jets were in the air and inbound just mins away[less the 5 mins]
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:22 PM
  #271  
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Originally Posted by VITE1 View Post
WTF are you talking about?

We had planes that could reach them in an hours( F16) and the AC130's in about two hours. We also had a fast reaction force that could have been there in 4 hours tops. Plus a CIA team near by.

The fact that NOTHING was done is telling. Why they did not put assets in motion to be available IF needed is the first clue that the Admin made decisions that were of purely a political nature.
Hopefully Romney will win and give the green light for some special sight seeing flights in Libya.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:39 PM
  #272  
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LTC, you've got me doubting myself about the 25mm cannons now..... I had this discussion last in 2010, so I hope I didn't insert my foot in my mouth.

Regardless, just sent an email asking for clarification on this, I'll report findings tomorrow.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:40 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by cole925 View Post
Don't know what you want me to tell you, that's from the horse's mouth (pilot). None of the crew was happy when the trainables got yanked.



This is not correct. Point targets are common, especially since they are what determine the parking space assignments at Hurlburt.



I've already explained that, but every weapon in our arsenal is an area weapon, by definition, expect the M4, M9 and sniper rifles.

Whoever you talked to was mistaken. A tumbling HE can't do more damage than it was designed for.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:43 PM
  #274  
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Originally Posted by cole925 View Post
LTC, you've got me doubting myself about the 25mm cannons now..... I had this discussion last in 2010, so I hope I didn't insert my foot in my mouth.

Regardless, just sent an email asking for clarification on this, I'll report findings tomorrow.
The one we had in late 2008 had to have had a Vulcan.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:49 PM
  #275  
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Originally Posted by Apothecary View Post
Sure. 30 minutes of shooting and 6.5 hours of kero fire and dancing.



Spin it any way ta want.


Nobody said you need to accept the facts from your own nutball party web site. It's a free country.




:roc k:
Glad you are in such a happy mood after your boy let Americans die. Go spark another bowl Druggie.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:54 PM
  #276  
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Originally Posted by LTC Z06 View Post
SS and Apoc, what say you? Do you agree the NCA did nothing?
I'm not gonna back seat quarterback that.


I can say they did nothing. But they prolly had a good reason, like no response team for 150 insurgents. They didnt have squat at the CIA compound. They didnt have squat anywhere near by for hours. Sending in a small response team would have been a death sentence. Another black hawk down disaster cept a 2 hour or less time table. It would have saved nobody and increased the death toll. The embassy was prolly overrun in 20 minutes or less. Until we get a clear and detailed time table of events, these discussions are useless.

The real bottom line is we got caught with our pants down in the crapper.




And this still is nothing compared to the NY 911 attack, that they were warned about before hand. Your far right pals are screaming over a few people compared to the catastrophic death toll of the twin towers.

GAFB.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:55 PM
  #277  
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Originally Posted by LTC Z06 View Post
Whoever you talked to was mistaken. A tumbling HE can't do more damage than it was designed for.
As you already said, part of the decision was due to tumbling vs accuracy, but I distinctly remember the Geneva Convention coming up as part of the citation.

We actually steered this direction because the discussion began with the origin of the "Geneva convention doesn't allow hollow points" myth. From there it dove into idiotic specifics laid out by the Geneva convention, and a Spooky driver started talking about this exact scenario.

Originally Posted by LTC Z06 View Post
The one we had in late 2008 had to have had a Vulcan.
One of my questions was "If yanked, were they all pulled simultaneously?". Don't know if you remember or not, but there was some pretty big uproar about the operating height changing, lots of pipe hitters were convinced the platform was getting phased out because brass wouldn't listen to the pilots.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:57 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by VITE1 View Post
Why they did not put assets in motion to be available IF needed is the first clue that the Admin made decisions that were of purely a political nature.
con..........jec...........ture.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:03 PM
  #279  
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On This Thread's Topic: Benghazi & Not Saving The SEALS & Ambassador

Fundamental Transformation Identified

In our world there are only two environments for life. People may only live in one of the two environments. BO is accomplishing his fundamental transformation from Individual Freedom to State Control.

One environment includes free market capitalism wherein liberty and justice for all is respected, ensured, and guaranteed by all individuals and societal law, rules, mores, ethics, and government forces. This environment requires that the society hold fast to the rule of law, ensure religious and economic freedoms, and guarantee respect for each individual. The individual is the highest element.

The opposite mode of existence is the opposite in all aspects.

The other environment is achieved using various philosophical plans, including socialism, communism, Marxism, and statism. The individual's belief in a higher power cannot be permitted, for it will distract from his reverence toward the state and its leadership. The individual is the lowest, and is an irrelevant element.

~~~~~

Bave & associates here, the conservative's approach to life implements the beliefs embodied in Liberty as identified above. That is how we were raised in the USA. That is the fundamental belief structure of the Romney & Ryan approach. That is why, no, unlike BO, they will not bring fundamental transformation to our lives. They will return us to an overall philosophy respecting the individual and supporting his desire to succeed as an individual on his own skills and efforts.

BO's fundamental transformation is fundamentally transforming each of us from respecting the individual, toward respecting, or appear to be respecting, the state above all else. It requires that each individual be subservient to the state.

Grand Conclusion: The Individual Or The State

Within BO's life plan, the state legitimately takes resources from individuals who have earned or somehow possess them, in order to redistribute to individuals who have not. That is the purpose of taxes.

Within BO's life plan, the state is the most important element. But here is where he gains import for himself: The state must be ensured its subsistence by individuals who will always ensure that it is constantly fed resources. Any action is fair, as long as it ensures the feeding of the state. The state needs individuals to ensure its feeding. BO has chosen himself as the state's benefactor. After all, someone has to do it....

In BO's mind, the individual is not significant. Therefore, there is no need to send support to Benghazi to ensure that the SEALS and an ambassador are rescued. Individuals are replaceable.

BO is a genuine, pure statist. That is how and why he can watch SEALS and his ambassador, the man whom he sent to represent him in Libya, die.

Of course, in this specific situation BO was operating in a detail mode. He was cold and completely detached from human feelings and emotions. His inaction furthered his political agenda. He only desires to maintain his own power so that he can ensure the feeding of the state. Rescue of the SEALS and ambassador would have allowed for their description of the entire event -- and its ignition.

BO can and will always be able to watch individuals die and not rescue them because he has no humane regard for the individual, whether in war or daily functioning of society. That is why he supports socialized medicine with rationing, high taxes, and less freedom for the individual. He needs to feed the state with ever-increasing resources.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:05 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by dmaxx3500 View Post
u.s.s stennis was 200-250 miles offshore,F/A18 fighters were 15-30 mins out [if they were still in deck] ,and if 2 SEALS were lazing a mortor postion[and taking incoming mortors] as-per CNN/MSNBC, those jets were in the air and inbound just mins away[less the 5 mins]
If they even had painters.




It's prolly safe to say that they did not want a bloodbath of insurgents mixed in with supposed innocent city locals, and cause a worse backlash than the original incident itself.(like with the film, or drone raids in Pak.
I fully endorse total disregard for any collateral damage/locals in any instance like this or even in the last 2 wars, but evidently our last few decades of leadership and warfare disagree.
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