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Science in America

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Old 04-20-2017, 01:36 PM   #21
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And now we have the most rabid anti-science administration in history.
This is what a tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorist actually looks like. ^
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Old 04-20-2017, 01:39 PM   #22
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That human burning of fossil carbon is a significant contributor to the current warming trend is almost without a doubt a scientific fact.

That it is the only cause of warming, or that warming can be reversed by cutting or stopping carbon burning, or that humans and the environment in general would be better off if we could stop using carbon, are all completely ignorant conjectures that have NEVER been put through a rigorous cost/benefit analysis.

I like to use the example of Bangladesh. It's a very low-lying country highly succeptible to rising seas and increasingly powerful monsoons. If we don't stop global warming, millions of Bangladeshis and an already endangered population of Bengal tigers will be wiped out, right?

But what if we do stop all fossil carbon use tomorrow? How are the thousands of tons of food aid going to reach Bangladesh if there is no coal or oil or gas to fire the ships and trains that bring the food in? No diesel to power the tractors in North America and Asia to plow the fields and harvest the corn? Nor any diesel to power the trucks that carry those crops to the markets and the shipyards?

What will the starving Bangladeshis eat? Most likely, whatever the Bengal tigers rely on in their food chain, if not the tigers themselves.

Great, the world stopped warming, the seas stopped rising, and we're all safe. That is, the 3 billion of us left that didn't starve to death because we quit the capacity to feed 7 billion people. And we're lucky were not one of the 10 thousand species of plants and animals that went extinct because 7 billion people were killing everything trying not to starve to death.

Don't f*ing call me "unscientific" when you haven't even tried to see the whole picture.
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Old 04-20-2017, 01:39 PM   #23
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"The US government is participating in an elaborate conspiracy to cover up the coming apocalypse!"

Yes, folks like PeterK _actually_ go through life believing this.
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Old 04-20-2017, 01:56 PM   #24
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I'm talking about the folks here who simply disagree with the very basic principles of physics. Like the fact that CO2 absorbs infrared.
CO2 and every other compound and element can absorb any number of bandwidths of electromagnetic radiation, and then re-emits the radiation.

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Old 04-20-2017, 02:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Walford View Post
That human burning of fossil carbon is a significant contributor to the current warming trend is almost without a doubt a scientific fact.

That it is the only cause of warming, or that warming can be reversed by cutting or stopping carbon burning, or that humans and the environment in general would be better off if we could stop using carbon, are all completely ignorant conjectures that have NEVER been put through a rigorous cost/benefit analysis.

I like to use the example of Bangladesh. It's a very low-lying country highly succeptible to rising seas and increasingly powerful monsoons. If we don't stop global warming, millions of Bangladeshis and an already endangered population of Bengal tigers will be wiped out, right?

But what if we do stop all fossil carbon use tomorrow? How are the thousands of tons of food aid going to reach Bangladesh if there is no coal or oil or gas to fire the ships and trains that bring the food in? No diesel to power the tractors in North America and Asia to plow the fields and harvest the corn? Nor any diesel to power the trucks that carry those crops to the markets and the shipyards?

What will the starving Bangladeshis eat? Most likely, whatever the Bengal tigers rely on in their food chain, if not the tigers themselves.

Great, the world stopped warming, the seas stopped rising, and we're all safe. That is, the 3 billion of us left that didn't starve to death because we quit the capacity to feed 7 billion people. And we're lucky were not one of the 10 thousand species of plants and animals that went extinct because 7 billion people were killing everything trying not to starve to death.

Don't f*ing call me "unscientific" when you haven't even tried to see the whole picture.
I think you are serious here, so not trying to ridicule; however, one solar flare has potential to warm the earth more than 100 year's accumulation of CO2. One volcanic eruption has potential to generate more heat trapping particulates than several year's emissions of burning coal. It is well known that the earth's temperature has been changing for as long as there have been records.

Even the most convinced alarmist of man made global warming are prone to question whether so-called prevention is less effective than different offsets; i.e.: we could cause a 3 trillion burden on American Taxpayers by banishing fossil fuels, but the effect (if you believe in that) could possibly be offset by only fraction of that investment, in preparation for areas so affected.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:05 PM   #26
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If we stop making CO2, how will the rainforests survive? MMGW tax and tariffs will kill the rain forests!

MMGW alarmists probably think an airplane can land on a running treadmill too...
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:06 PM   #27
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And now we have the most rabid anti-science administration in history.
Yet Science has proven the Welfare state is directly responsible for many of the ills of society and the last administration pushed for more welfare.

Yet you leftist deny that science.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:06 PM   #28
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Why are we subsidizing the rich? Is your "science" not able to support itself??

How about 100% cut, as it were in the good ol' days. Trump seems pretty generous.
I only agree to that if we cut 100% of the federal defense funding. After all, illnesses kill more americans daily than foreign enemies. Why should we lower our defenses against the enemy that kills thousands americans every day to pay for a trumpanzee wasting money on military posturing.

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Old 04-20-2017, 02:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by jasper711 View Post
CO2 and every other compound and element can absorb any number of bandwidths of electromagnetic radiation, and then re-emits the radiation.

That re-emission is key to how the greenhouse effect works, actually. It's why some of the IR is re-radiated back toward the ground instead of escaping into space.

I'm glad you understand it, but to some people here, nitrogen (N2) and oxygen (O2) are the primary greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Gases that are transparent in infrared!

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Old 04-20-2017, 02:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
I teach in a medical school, and the president just send the letter encouraging all faculty and students attend the march for science. Everyone is concerned with the draconian 20-30% cuts trumanzee is trying to make to the scientific and clinical education.
Yet in the 1990's Medicare froze the number of residency they would finance due to Clinton making a deal with the AMA. That seriously reduced the number of American trained doctors for a political agenda VS actual need.

Your hypocrisy is on constant display.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:10 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TurboTnZ06 View Post
If we stop making CO2, how will the rainforests survive? MMGW tax and tariffs will kill the rain forests!

MMGW alarmists probably think an airplane can land on a running treadmill too...

If we stop making CO2 tomorrow, then over the next couple centuries or so, atmospheric CO2 concentration would go back down to the equilibrium point it's been at for millenia prior (just around 280ppm, or down to 180ppm during ice ages).

Isn't anybody here capable of producing a serious argument?
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walford View Post
That human burning of fossil carbon is a significant contributor to the current warming trend is almost without a doubt a scientific fact.

That it is the only cause of warming, or that warming can be reversed by cutting or stopping carbon burning, or that humans and the environment in general would be better off if we could stop using carbon, are all completely ignorant conjectures that have NEVER been put through a rigorous cost/benefit analysis.

I like to use the example of Bangladesh. It's a very low-lying country highly succeptible to rising seas and increasingly powerful monsoons. If we don't stop global warming, millions of Bangladeshis and an already endangered population of Bengal tigers will be wiped out, right?

But what if we do stop all fossil carbon use tomorrow? How are the thousands of tons of food aid going to reach Bangladesh if there is no coal or oil or gas to fire the ships and trains that bring the food in? No diesel to power the tractors in North America and Asia to plow the fields and harvest the corn? Nor any diesel to power the trucks that carry those crops to the markets and the shipyards?

What will the starving Bangladeshis eat? Most likely, whatever the Bengal tigers rely on in their food chain, if not the tigers themselves.

Great, the world stopped warming, the seas stopped rising, and we're all safe. That is, the 3 billion of us left that didn't starve to death because we quit the capacity to feed 7 billion people. And we're lucky were not one of the 10 thousand species of plants and animals that went extinct because 7 billion people were killing everything trying not to starve to death.

Don't f*ing call me "unscientific" when you haven't even tried to see the whole picture.
As Chernobyl and Fukusima showed - the wildlife can recover even in the areas poisoned with radiations as long as humans stay out of it.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:11 PM   #33
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The poor fellow in the video cannot remember growing up in America where science was not followed blindly.

That is funny because I clearly remember when the masses and news providers seemed to favor statements about nuclear power from Jane Fonda rather than nuclear scientists.

How about ALL the liberal naysayers predicting in 1972, that we would be out of oil within 7 years.

How about ALL the same pundits claiming we would soon be buried under mountains of garbage due to packaging, in the mid 1960's.

And of course, there could never be enough food on this planet to feed 5 billion folks.


He is feeling bad because the left side of the aisle has called wolf enough times that folks are jaded.

Only the slowest learners and situationally-unaware blindly trust anything propagated by the left now.

Fake news.
I don't know about Jane Fonda but I do know that we have had at least 3 major nuclear disasters since then -- 3 mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima Daiichi.

No we didn't run out of fossil fuels, but what do we do to get it now? Pollute many of the wells and water sources of the country trough fracking, the Gulf of mexico still hasn't recovered from the deep water horizon spill. Numerous pipeline leaks and untold number of underground gas tank leaks.

Our oceans are contaminated from over 8 millions tons of plastic dumped per year which takes centuries to degrade. https://www.plasticoceans.org/the-facts/

There may be enough food to feed everyone yet almost a billion people go hungry everyday.

Science is not left or right. It's simply the messenger, take it or leave it and it won't change the truth.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:14 PM   #34
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Yet in the 1990's Medicare froze the number of residency they would finance due to Clinton making a deal with the AMA. That seriously reduced the number of American trained doctors for a political agenda VS actual need.

Your hypocrisy is on constant display.
It was done in the interest of saving taxpayers money. Hospital can create residency slots beyond medicare caps but there isn't a lot of incentive to do that since most of the hospitals see residency training as a money losing proposition.

Last edited by PeterK; 04-20-2017 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:51 PM   #35
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If we stop making CO2, how will the rainforests survive? MMGW tax and tariffs will kill the rain forests!
They are not going to survive because we can't stop cutting them down to make pallets, crates and cheap plywood to replace them with palm oil plantations and cattle ranches.

Last edited by rharker; 04-20-2017 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:55 PM   #36
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he teaches philosophy.


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Old 04-20-2017, 02:58 PM   #37
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They are not going to survive because we can stop cutting them down to make pallets, crates and cheap plywood to replace them with palm oil plantations and cattle ranches.
So did you quit buying items shipped in trucks on pallets, do you live in a house with plywood on the roof and have you had a hamburger in the last couple of years? Hypocrite.

Last edited by Gunsmith; 04-20-2017 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:00 PM   #38
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I don't know about Jane Fonda but I do know that we have had at least 3 major nuclear disasters since then -- 3 mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima Daiichi.

No we didn't run out of fossil fuels, but what do we do to get it now? Pollute many of the wells and water sources of the country trough fracking, the Gulf of mexico still hasn't recovered from the deep water horizon spill. Numerous pipeline leaks and untold number of underground gas tank leaks.

Our oceans are contaminated from over 8 millions tons of plastic dumped per year which takes centuries to degrade. https://www.plasticoceans.org/the-facts/

There may be enough food to feed everyone yet almost a billion people go hungry everyday.

Science is not left or right. It's simply the messenger, take it or leave it and it won't change the truth.
Do you drive a Corvette? Keep lecturing us on the use of oil.
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:24 PM   #39
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It was done in the interest of saving taxpayers money. Hospital can create residency slots beyond medicare caps but there isn't a lot of incentive to do that since most of the hospitals see residency training as a money losing proposition.
Bullshit. It was done to buy the AMA off so they'd go a long with Hillary care.
It was a one time saving for medicare which has cost up a massive amount more in HC cost due to lack of competition.
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:34 PM   #40
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I only agree to that if we cut 100% of the federal defense funding. After all, illnesses kill more americans daily than foreign enemies. Why should we lower our defenses against the enemy that kills thousands americans every day to pay for a trumpanzee wasting money on military posturing.
Full on retard.
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