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Old 04-20-2017, 03:37 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Thud View Post
If we stop making CO2 tomorrow, then over the next couple centuries or so, atmospheric CO2 concentration would go back down to the equilibrium point it's been at for millenia prior (just around 280ppm, or down to 180ppm during ice ages).

Isn't anybody here capable of producing a serious argument?
Thud, casting everyone else as ignorant, while personal practicing denial.

Only one person on CFPRC has the misunderstanding of non-condensation atmospheric gasses, although you Thud have exposed your misunderstanding of CO2 at atmospheric temperature and pressure.

Terrestrial radiation has to reach atmospheric CO2 to be absorbed, something that is assumed to occur to explain the energy imbalance between incoming and outgoing global energy. This assumption is inferred, not proven, with the isolation of day and night heat transfer an ignored analysis in the CMMGW science community, an analysis that can support the assumption or discredit the theory (and yet, the CMMGW community remains in resistant denial).

The novice CMMGW community assumes nighttime heat transfer is linear throughout the period and pure sensible heat. The more scientific CMMGW community also recognizes this assumption is flawed and has forwarded a secondary assume that atmospheric CO2 absorbs significant radiant heat at a vapor pressure where the available mass capacitance can be boosted by a phase change, a physical impossibility under the physical conditions. The magnitude of absorbed CO2 heat, to create even the GHG forcing factor that is the current theory, demands more CO2 mass or heat absorption by a CO2 phase change to even come close to the calculation needed for the assumed energy balance and nighttime heat transfer.

The nighttime analysis reflects that heat transfer begins the nighttime period with radiation above the 0-2 meter terrestrial surface boundary layer, into the atmosphere where heat is present for GHG absorbtion, but later in the nighttime period the heat transfer assumed to be to GHG is conducted back to the terrestrial surface (earth and ocean, by water vapor condensation and conduction). The heat the CMMGW community is torturing CO2 physics to account for, never leaves the 0-2 meter boundary layer of the atmosphere junction with the earth surface. The heat is returned and retained at the surface, and transferred to the crust and ocean in condensed moisture (the ocean heat sink we keep reading about). The globe is warming, and the warming is due to a greenhouse gas, but the forcing GHG is not CO2.

That last claim of the ideal atmospheric CO2 equilibrium concentration is new, and probably a dodge to distract from answering the questions of the ideal global temperature and ideal temperature change trend.

So, Thud, what Is the ideal atmospheric CO2 concentration and what is the baseline temperature and acceptable rate of temperature change corresponding to that ideal concentration?
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:38 PM   #42
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As long as this place keeps warming up, I'll be happy.


Let windbags continue to blow their hot air will only help! Charter a few jets and take a part in more movies with explosions (lots of CO2 from those induced fires) - crank up that CO2 while lecturing me while I ride my bike around enjoying the warmer weather.
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:41 PM   #43
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I only agree to that if we cut 100% of the federal defense funding. After all, illnesses kill more americans daily than foreign enemies. Why should we lower our defenses against the enemy that kills thousands americans every day to pay for a trumpanzee wasting money on military posturing.
Brilliant idea you have there, what could possibly go wrong?
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:48 PM   #44
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I teach in a medical school, and the president just send the letter encouraging all faculty and students attend the march for science. Everyone is concerned with the draconian 20-30% cuts trumanzee is trying to make to the scientific and clinical education.
WTF? I hope you are not teaching anyone with that Engrish. Maybe an ESL class.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:01 PM   #45
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"And now we have the most rabid anti-science administration in history."

Incorrect...we now have the most rabid anti-junk science administration in history...anyone who disagrees with you believers is wrong...it doesn't matter if you are right...the science I am comfortable with is required to prove their theories, not get close enough...connecting the dots does not mean missing a few here and there is no big deal...

when you believers have concrete. irrefutable evidence give me a call...until then pipe down and go away with your close but no cigar theories...
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:01 PM   #46
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MMGW is not the only issue that was discussed in the OP. Look at the level of ignorance that is taking place with respect to vaccines, and in this instance it goes across the entire spectrum of American politics.

Last edited by vette6799; 04-20-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:26 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP View Post
Terrestrial radiation has to reach atmospheric CO2 to be absorbed, something that is assumed to occur to explain the energy imbalance between incoming and outgoing global energy. This assumption is inferred, not proven, with the isolation of day and night heat transfer an ignored analysis in the CMMGW science community, an analysis that can support the assumption or discredit the theory (and yet, the CMMGW community remains in resistant denial).
Yes yes yes, we know, you have the knowledge about this which can turn the entire field of science on its head, and win you a nobel prize in Physics. Yet you continue to sit here and waste your valuable earth-shattering research on a car forum, rather than actually get it published.

Or, maybe you are just having trouble understanding that spectroscopy is a real thing, and that CO2 actually does absorb certain wavelengths of infrared.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:29 PM   #48
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And now we have the most rabid anti-science administration in history.
No, we have an administration that knows agenda driven "science" when they see it. Agenda driven "science" is not science but you wouldn't know such things.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:29 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by vette6799 View Post
MMGW is not the only issue that was discussed in the OP. Look at the level of ignorance that is taking place with respect to vaccines, and in this instance it goes across the entire spectrum of American politics.
Vaccines are another issue that strongly parallels MMGW deniers.

You have a group of folks telling us that the science is all wrong, that it's corrupt by big pharma and of course thousands of physicians who are also in on the conspiracy, and that there's plenty of evidence linking vaccines to autism even though there isn't.

Appeal to conspiracy, and disregard of actual science, is a common theme among MMGW-deniers and anti-vaxxers.

Same patterns, but oddly enough, it's not always the same people-- some people choose which science they want to trust and which they don't.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:32 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP View Post
Thud, casting everyone else as ignorant, while personal practicing denial.

Only one person on CFPRC has the misunderstanding of non-condensation atmospheric gasses, although you Thud have exposed your misunderstanding of CO2 at atmospheric temperature and pressure.

Terrestrial radiation has to reach atmospheric CO2 to be absorbed, something that is assumed to occur to explain the energy imbalance between incoming and outgoing global energy. This assumption is inferred, not proven, with the isolation of day and night heat transfer an ignored analysis in the CMMGW science community, an analysis that can support the assumption or discredit the theory (and yet, the CMMGW community remains in resistant denial).

The novice CMMGW community assumes nighttime heat transfer is linear throughout the period and pure sensible heat. The more scientific CMMGW community also recognizes this assumption is flawed and has forwarded a secondary assume that atmospheric CO2 absorbs significant radiant heat at a vapor pressure where the available mass capacitance can be boosted by a phase change, a physical impossibility under the physical conditions. The magnitude of absorbed CO2 heat, to create even the GHG forcing factor that is the current theory, demands more CO2 mass or heat absorption by a CO2 phase change to even come close to the calculation needed for the assumed energy balance and nighttime heat transfer.

The nighttime analysis reflects that heat transfer begins the nighttime period with radiation above the 0-2 meter terrestrial surface boundary layer, into the atmosphere where heat is present for GHG absorbtion, but later in the nighttime period the heat transfer assumed to be to GHG is conducted back to the terrestrial surface (earth and ocean, by water vapor condensation and conduction). The heat the CMMGW community is torturing CO2 physics to account for, never leaves the 0-2 meter boundary layer of the atmosphere junction with the earth surface. The heat is returned and retained at the surface, and transferred to the crust and ocean in condensed moisture (the ocean heat sink we keep reading about). The globe is warming, and the warming is due to a greenhouse gas, but the forcing GHG is not CO2.

That last claim of the ideal atmospheric CO2 equilibrium concentration is new, and probably a dodge to distract from answering the questions of the ideal global temperature and ideal temperature change trend.

So, Thud, what Is the ideal atmospheric CO2 concentration and what is the baseline temperature and acceptable rate of temperature change corresponding to that ideal concentration?



What he said
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:39 PM   #51
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WTF? I hope you are not teaching anyone with that Engrish. Maybe an ESL class.


Someone refresh my memory. It was my impression that ol' Petie is residing in red China at the moment. Is that correct, or am I mixing him up with another forum member?
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:44 PM   #52
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Someone refresh my memory. It was my impression that ol' Petie is residing in red China at the moment. Is that correct, or am I mixing him up with another forum member?
Peter lives in his own mind with multiple Master's degrees and millions of dollars.


Just ask him.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:48 PM   #53
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And now we have the most rabid anti-science administration in history.
The past 8 years of settled science was horrible....
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:51 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Thud View Post
Vaccines are another issue that strongly parallels MMGW deniers.

You have a group of folks telling us that the science is all wrong, that it's corrupt by big pharma and of course thousands of physicians who are also in on the conspiracy, and that there's plenty of evidence linking vaccines to autism even though there isn't.

Appeal to conspiracy, and disregard of actual science, is a common theme among MMGW-deniers and anti-vaxxers.

Same patterns, but oddly enough, it's not always the same people-- some people choose which science they want to trust and which they don't.
So...you want to vaccinate babies before you abort them?
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:52 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Thud View Post
Vaccines are another issue that strongly parallels MMGW deniers.

You have a group of folks telling us that the science is all wrong, that it's corrupt by big pharma and of course thousands of physicians who are also in on the conspiracy, and that there's plenty of evidence linking vaccines to autism even though there isn't.

Appeal to conspiracy, and disregard of actual science, is a common theme among MMGW-deniers and anti-vaxxers.

Same patterns, but oddly enough, it's not always the same people-- some people choose which science they want to trust and which they don't.
So, your position is that it should be an all or nothing thing?
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:54 PM   #56
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I just saw this....not a bad article by USA Today.....and totally pertinent to the discussion at hand....here's the headline and link....

Americans arenít at war with science ó just with themselves

And I found this part of the article to be spot on....

Many conservatives reject the science of man-made climate change, just as many liberals reject the science that shows nuclear energy can safely combat it. The views we express signal which political group we belong to. The gap between what science shows and what people believe, experts say, is about our identity.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ion/100636124/

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Old 04-20-2017, 04:59 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Thud View Post
If we stop making CO2 tomorrow, then over the next couple centuries or so, atmospheric CO2 concentration would go back down to the equilibrium point it's been at for millenia prior (just around 280ppm, or down to 180ppm during ice ages).

Isn't anybody here capable of producing a serious argument?
And you know that exactly how? C02 has been increasing and decreasing over billions of years and somehow a guy with a high school degree is going to tell us all about science and what's going to happen centuries ahead. Now that is funny and ironic at the same time.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:01 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Thud View Post
Yes yes yes, we know, you have the knowledge about this which can turn the entire field of science on its head, and win you a nobel prize in Physics. Yet you continue to sit here and waste your valuable earth-shattering research on a car forum, rather than actually get it published.

Or, maybe you are just having trouble understanding that spectroscopy is a real thing, and that CO2 actually does absorb certain wavelengths of infrared.
So when he caught you spouting off ignorance and not science you attack. Who is the science denier?

I love it.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:01 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Thud View Post
Vaccines are another issue that strongly parallels MMGW deniers.

You have a group of folks telling us that the science is all wrong, that it's corrupt by big pharma and of course thousands of physicians who are also in on the conspiracy, and that there's plenty of evidence linking vaccines to autism even though there isn't.

Appeal to conspiracy, and disregard of actual science, is a common theme among MMGW-deniers and anti-vaxxers.

Same patterns, but oddly enough, it's not always the same people-- some people choose which science they want to trust and which they don't.
Says the same guy that actually believes big oil was/is on the conspiracy to cover up the effects of CO2 gases. Says the same guy that honestly believes his government is now in on the same conspiracy to deny and cover up some global apocalypse.

Same patterns among all you warmers. Conspiracy nutter butters.

Last edited by Vitoc; 04-20-2017 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:02 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP View Post
Thud, casting everyone else as ignorant, while personal practicing denial.

Only one person on CFPRC has the misunderstanding of non-condensation atmospheric gasses, although you Thud have exposed your misunderstanding of CO2 at atmospheric temperature and pressure.

Terrestrial radiation has to reach atmospheric CO2 to be absorbed, something that is assumed to occur to explain the energy imbalance between incoming and outgoing global energy. This assumption is inferred, not proven, with the isolation of day and night heat transfer an ignored analysis in the CMMGW science community, an analysis that can support the assumption or discredit the theory (and yet, the CMMGW community remains in resistant denial).

The novice CMMGW community assumes nighttime heat transfer is linear throughout the period and pure sensible heat. The more scientific CMMGW community also recognizes this assumption is flawed and has forwarded a secondary assume that atmospheric CO2 absorbs significant radiant heat at a vapor pressure where the available mass capacitance can be boosted by a phase change, a physical impossibility under the physical conditions. The magnitude of absorbed CO2 heat, to create even the GHG forcing factor that is the current theory, demands more CO2 mass or heat absorption by a CO2 phase change to even come close to the calculation needed for the assumed energy balance and nighttime heat transfer.

The nighttime analysis reflects that heat transfer begins the nighttime period with radiation above the 0-2 meter terrestrial surface boundary layer, into the atmosphere where heat is present for GHG absorbtion, but later in the nighttime period the heat transfer assumed to be to GHG is conducted back to the terrestrial surface (earth and ocean, by water vapor condensation and conduction). The heat the CMMGW community is torturing CO2 physics to account for, never leaves the 0-2 meter boundary layer of the atmosphere junction with the earth surface. The heat is returned and retained at the surface, and transferred to the crust and ocean in condensed moisture (the ocean heat sink we keep reading about). The globe is warming, and the warming is due to a greenhouse gas, but the forcing GHG is not CO2.

That last claim of the ideal atmospheric CO2 equilibrium concentration is new, and probably a dodge to distract from answering the questions of the ideal global temperature and ideal temperature change trend.

So, Thud, what Is the ideal atmospheric CO2 concentration and what is the baseline temperature and acceptable rate of temperature change corresponding to that ideal concentration?
Excellent post...

.

Last edited by Mr turbo rotary; 04-20-2017 at 05:03 PM.
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