Trump states: "Korea actually used to be part of China"
04-20-2017, 04:11 PM
#21
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I think that at one time or another in history, China has subjugated all of it's neighboring countries. Korea was at least a vassal state under Chinese dominance. Vassal states typically had to pay tribute to the Chinese. I've read that Korea's forced subservient status has created a historical hatred of the Chinese by the Koreans.
Trump's statement is sufficiently accurate.
Trump's statement is sufficiently accurate.
04-20-2017, 04:12 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Jughead
if trump farts there's outrage.
04-20-2017, 04:17 PM
#23
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Well it crrtainly isn't like the Obunghole stating that Hawaii was in Asia!
TheBlaze › news › 2011/11/16 › obama-...
AMP - Nov 16, 2011 - While speaking in Hawaii this week, President Obama referenced Hawaii as being in Asia: .....The ******* moron!!!!
Obama Makes Another Gaffe — References Hawaii as Being in 'Asia ...
TheBlaze › news › 2011/11/16 › obama-...
AMP - Nov 16, 2011 - While speaking in Hawaii this week, President Obama referenced Hawaii as being in Asia: .....The ******* moron!!!!
Last edited by vigalante; 04-20-2017 at 04:18 PM.
04-20-2017, 04:19 PM
#24
CF Senior Member
Originally Posted by cdngolfer
You think that Trump is that deep? If he is, that was a smooth move.
However, he should clarify that for the South Koreans.
However, he should clarify that for the South Koreans.
Easiest solution in the world. Let China take it. Fix huge problem, very little to if any downside.
04-20-2017, 04:25 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by cdngolfer
Twitter and WSJ
https://twitter.com/i/moments/855038211487404032
S. Korea responds to Trump's China claim: 'Shocking ignorance'
World News This morning
In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, the president said "Korea actually used to be part of China" while discussing takeaways from his meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Korea is dismayed.
https://twitter.com/i/moments/855038211487404032
S. Korea responds to Trump's China claim: 'Shocking ignorance'
World News This morning
In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, the president said "Korea actually used to be part of China" while discussing takeaways from his meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Korea is dismayed.
04-20-2017, 04:26 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by C5 Pewter Coupe
It depends on how far back in history you want to go, because yes at several times in the past, Korea has been part of China.. (you too can google it)
04-20-2017, 04:31 PM
#27
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Was Korea part of China? (what I found)
Short answer is a no. More nuanced and subjective answer is a yes, for about 50 years after Mongols subdued Goryeo kingdom. This is subjective because Korea did still have nominal king and he did have absolute authority on Korean peninsula - but this king was almost more a part of Yuan court than an independent king - they were all married into Yuan imperial princesses and even grew up in Yuan court in many cases. Mongols of course aren’t exactly Chinese, so that’s why it’s subjective, if you’re a Chinese person of Mongol descent then the answer is a yes, sort of.
TL;DR; The whole of peninsula was never a part of China. Northern part of Korea was part of Han dynasty for roughly 200 years. Han Wudi conquered the northern Korea and parts of Manchuria and set up four commandaries, which is similar to colonial administration. Goguryeo later invaded and absorbed Han commandaries set up in northern Korea. During Korea’s three kingdom periods, Shilla eventually paid tribute to Tang, and became its tributary. Goguryeo refused Sui/Tang suzerainty and suffered multiple invasions - Sui dynasty essentially drove to ruins due to failed military campaigns against Korea, but Goguryeo was also greatly weakened. Eventually Tang and Shilla alliance destroyed Goguryeo. This resulted in Tang ruling norther Korea for about 30 years until Shilla invaded Tang territories and united Korean peninsula for the first time under one kingdom. Shortly after its victory against Tang, it became tributary of Tang essentially in return for China’s acceptance of Shilla’s claim on whole of Korean peninsula. This was the last time Korea and China fought each other. This tributary relationship dissolved as Tang fell and China entered prolonged civil war periods. But once Song was in power, and Goryeo was established, it became Song’s tributary. However, these tributary relationship was essentially in name only as Song did not have land connection to Goryeo, blocked by Liao dynasty. Goryeo received enormous annual gifts from Song for choosing to pay tribute to Song instead of Liao (Khitans). As a consequence, Liao invaded Goryeo multiple time, all failing although one came close to success. While Korea had tributary relationship with China, Korea wasn’t exactly defenseless as number of failed campaigns against Korea showed. As such, the tributary relationship was mostly nominal. For example, Song asked Goryeo to help it when Liao invaded Song, even sending dozens of ships full of gifts, yet Koreans ignored the plea every time. Likewise, Song ignored Korea’s plea for help when Goryeo asked Song’s help when Liao invaded Korea.
Mongols changed this equation. Granted it wasn’t the easiest conquest for Mongols either as they had to invaded Korea 9 times before Goryeo king finally surrendered. It was a conditional surrender, so Korea just became a tributary without being absorbed into Mongo empire like China did. However, Korean king was forced to marry Kubilai khan’s daughter, so Goryeo royal lineage became mixed with Mongol imperial family. For next three or four generations, Goryeo kings all married Mongol princesses from this point. This is the only period other than the Japanese occupation, Korea’s independence was just in name only. Goryeo kings considered themselves as much a Mongol imperial prince as he was a Goryeo king. Some of the Korean kings spent most of their lifetime in Karakorum - letting Korea be ruled by bureaucrats. It became so bad that eventually Yuan emperor told his son in law to go back to Korea to rule directly. Interestingly, Liao-dong was also put under Korean king’s administration during this period - this showed that Yuan court saw Korean king as one of their own as well. Lots of Koreans moved to Liao-Dong peninsula during this time as a result of this. While technically Korea still had its king and independent administration, it was hard to tell where Mongol rule ended and Goryeo rule began during this 50 year period.
Ming dynasty and Joseon - this is when Korea adopts Chinese neo-confucianism and become loyal tributary of Ming. It was still very much independent, but it definitely followed Ming’s party-line on almost all international politics. Ming in turn treated Joseon with respect and helped it when Korea was invaded by Japan. Korea in turn also sent military forces when Manchus invaded Ming.
Qing dynasty and Joseon - this was tributary in name only. Probably the only time Korean royal court had nothing but contempt for Chinese court although things do get better by 19th century. Joseon saw Qing as barbarians plain and simple, it accepted Qing’s military superiority and it did its tributary duties - mainly sending tributes, but Joseon really closed off its cultural door to China during this periods. This relationship changes near the end of 19th century as Japan encroached on Korea, Joseon court used its tributary relationship to get Qing’s help in quelling domestic rebellion and check Japanese encroachment. This resulted in Sino-Japan war and Qing’s humiliation and eventual loss of Korea’s independence to Japan.
TL;DR; The whole of peninsula was never a part of China. Northern part of Korea was part of Han dynasty for roughly 200 years. Han Wudi conquered the northern Korea and parts of Manchuria and set up four commandaries, which is similar to colonial administration. Goguryeo later invaded and absorbed Han commandaries set up in northern Korea. During Korea’s three kingdom periods, Shilla eventually paid tribute to Tang, and became its tributary. Goguryeo refused Sui/Tang suzerainty and suffered multiple invasions - Sui dynasty essentially drove to ruins due to failed military campaigns against Korea, but Goguryeo was also greatly weakened. Eventually Tang and Shilla alliance destroyed Goguryeo. This resulted in Tang ruling norther Korea for about 30 years until Shilla invaded Tang territories and united Korean peninsula for the first time under one kingdom. Shortly after its victory against Tang, it became tributary of Tang essentially in return for China’s acceptance of Shilla’s claim on whole of Korean peninsula. This was the last time Korea and China fought each other. This tributary relationship dissolved as Tang fell and China entered prolonged civil war periods. But once Song was in power, and Goryeo was established, it became Song’s tributary. However, these tributary relationship was essentially in name only as Song did not have land connection to Goryeo, blocked by Liao dynasty. Goryeo received enormous annual gifts from Song for choosing to pay tribute to Song instead of Liao (Khitans). As a consequence, Liao invaded Goryeo multiple time, all failing although one came close to success. While Korea had tributary relationship with China, Korea wasn’t exactly defenseless as number of failed campaigns against Korea showed. As such, the tributary relationship was mostly nominal. For example, Song asked Goryeo to help it when Liao invaded Song, even sending dozens of ships full of gifts, yet Koreans ignored the plea every time. Likewise, Song ignored Korea’s plea for help when Goryeo asked Song’s help when Liao invaded Korea.
Mongols changed this equation. Granted it wasn’t the easiest conquest for Mongols either as they had to invaded Korea 9 times before Goryeo king finally surrendered. It was a conditional surrender, so Korea just became a tributary without being absorbed into Mongo empire like China did. However, Korean king was forced to marry Kubilai khan’s daughter, so Goryeo royal lineage became mixed with Mongol imperial family. For next three or four generations, Goryeo kings all married Mongol princesses from this point. This is the only period other than the Japanese occupation, Korea’s independence was just in name only. Goryeo kings considered themselves as much a Mongol imperial prince as he was a Goryeo king. Some of the Korean kings spent most of their lifetime in Karakorum - letting Korea be ruled by bureaucrats. It became so bad that eventually Yuan emperor told his son in law to go back to Korea to rule directly. Interestingly, Liao-dong was also put under Korean king’s administration during this period - this showed that Yuan court saw Korean king as one of their own as well. Lots of Koreans moved to Liao-Dong peninsula during this time as a result of this. While technically Korea still had its king and independent administration, it was hard to tell where Mongol rule ended and Goryeo rule began during this 50 year period.
Ming dynasty and Joseon - this is when Korea adopts Chinese neo-confucianism and become loyal tributary of Ming. It was still very much independent, but it definitely followed Ming’s party-line on almost all international politics. Ming in turn treated Joseon with respect and helped it when Korea was invaded by Japan. Korea in turn also sent military forces when Manchus invaded Ming.
Qing dynasty and Joseon - this was tributary in name only. Probably the only time Korean royal court had nothing but contempt for Chinese court although things do get better by 19th century. Joseon saw Qing as barbarians plain and simple, it accepted Qing’s military superiority and it did its tributary duties - mainly sending tributes, but Joseon really closed off its cultural door to China during this periods. This relationship changes near the end of 19th century as Japan encroached on Korea, Joseon court used its tributary relationship to get Qing’s help in quelling domestic rebellion and check Japanese encroachment. This resulted in Sino-Japan war and Qing’s humiliation and eventual loss of Korea’s independence to Japan.
04-20-2017, 04:31 PM
#28
CF Senior Member
Originally Posted by cdngolfer
You think that Trump is that deep? If he is, that was a smooth move.
However, he should clarify that for the South Koreans.
However, he should clarify that for the South Koreans.
play checkers with missing pieces. Eh!?
04-20-2017, 04:32 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by cdngolfer
You think that Trump is that deep? If he is, that was a smooth move.
However, he should clarify that for the South Koreans.
However, he should clarify that for the South Koreans.
I don't think it's that deep. Fairly simplistic and the wisdom of it would be a separate question.
His audience for the statement, tho, appears intended for Un, and as such isn't the misstatement some are taking it to be.
04-20-2017, 04:34 PM
#31
1SG of the Goon Squad
Canuckistan is getting left alone and they are jealous because of their feckless leadership.
May, Trump, LePenn.
May, Trump, LePenn.
04-20-2017, 04:39 PM
#32
CF Senior Member
Originally Posted by British
So, this is kinda like when Obama implied that the Crusades 500 years ago were somehow relevant to the discussion of Islamic violence in today's world.
04-20-2017, 05:04 PM
#34
CF Senior Member
Originally Posted by KenHorse
Wonder if anyone here would refute that England was part of the Roman Empire at one time too.....
04-20-2017, 05:07 PM
#35
CF Senior Member
Originally Posted by Lord.Baal
Exactly!! Trump is exactly like Obama
04-20-2017, 05:36 PM
#38
CF Senior Member
Originally Posted by Aerovette
Short answer is a no. More nuanced and subjective answer is a yes, for about 50 years after Mongols subdued Goryeo kingdom. This is subjective because Korea did still have nominal king and he did have absolute authority on Korean peninsula - but this king was almost more a part of Yuan court than an independent king - they were all married into Yuan imperial princesses and even grew up in Yuan court in many cases. Mongols of course aren’t exactly Chinese, so that’s why it’s subjective, if you’re a Chinese person of Mongol descent then the answer is a yes, sort of.
TL;DR; The whole of peninsula was never a part of China. Northern part of Korea was part of Han dynasty for roughly 200 years. Han Wudi conquered the northern Korea and parts of Manchuria and set up four commandaries, which is similar to colonial administration. Goguryeo later invaded and absorbed Han commandaries set up in northern Korea. During Korea’s three kingdom periods, Shilla eventually paid tribute to Tang, and became its tributary. Goguryeo refused Sui/Tang suzerainty and suffered multiple invasions - Sui dynasty essentially drove to ruins due to failed military campaigns against Korea, but Goguryeo was also greatly weakened. Eventually Tang and Shilla alliance destroyed Goguryeo. This resulted in Tang ruling norther Korea for about 30 years until Shilla invaded Tang territories and united Korean peninsula for the first time under one kingdom. Shortly after its victory against Tang, it became tributary of Tang essentially in return for China’s acceptance of Shilla’s claim on whole of Korean peninsula. This was the last time Korea and China fought each other. This tributary relationship dissolved as Tang fell and China entered prolonged civil war periods. But once Song was in power, and Goryeo was established, it became Song’s tributary. However, these tributary relationship was essentially in name only as Song did not have land connection to Goryeo, blocked by Liao dynasty. Goryeo received enormous annual gifts from Song for choosing to pay tribute to Song instead of Liao (Khitans). As a consequence, Liao invaded Goryeo multiple time, all failing although one came close to success. While Korea had tributary relationship with China, Korea wasn’t exactly defenseless as number of failed campaigns against Korea showed. As such, the tributary relationship was mostly nominal. For example, Song asked Goryeo to help it when Liao invaded Song, even sending dozens of ships full of gifts, yet Koreans ignored the plea every time. Likewise, Song ignored Korea’s plea for help when Goryeo asked Song’s help when Liao invaded Korea.
Mongols changed this equation. Granted it wasn’t the easiest conquest for Mongols either as they had to invaded Korea 9 times before Goryeo king finally surrendered. It was a conditional surrender, so Korea just became a tributary without being absorbed into Mongo empire like China did. However, Korean king was forced to marry Kubilai khan’s daughter, so Goryeo royal lineage became mixed with Mongol imperial family. For next three or four generations, Goryeo kings all married Mongol princesses from this point. This is the only period other than the Japanese occupation, Korea’s independence was just in name only. Goryeo kings considered themselves as much a Mongol imperial prince as he was a Goryeo king. Some of the Korean kings spent most of their lifetime in Karakorum - letting Korea be ruled by bureaucrats. It became so bad that eventually Yuan emperor told his son in law to go back to Korea to rule directly. Interestingly, Liao-dong was also put under Korean king’s administration during this period - this showed that Yuan court saw Korean king as one of their own as well. Lots of Koreans moved to Liao-Dong peninsula during this time as a result of this. While technically Korea still had its king and independent administration, it was hard to tell where Mongol rule ended and Goryeo rule began during this 50 year period.
Ming dynasty and Joseon - this is when Korea adopts Chinese neo-confucianism and become loyal tributary of Ming. It was still very much independent, but it definitely followed Ming’s party-line on almost all international politics. Ming in turn treated Joseon with respect and helped it when Korea was invaded by Japan. Korea in turn also sent military forces when Manchus invaded Ming.
Qing dynasty and Joseon - this was tributary in name only. Probably the only time Korean royal court had nothing but contempt for Chinese court although things do get better by 19th century. Joseon saw Qing as barbarians plain and simple, it accepted Qing’s military superiority and it did its tributary duties - mainly sending tributes, but Joseon really closed off its cultural door to China during this periods. This relationship changes near the end of 19th century as Japan encroached on Korea, Joseon court used its tributary relationship to get Qing’s help in quelling domestic rebellion and check Japanese encroachment. This resulted in Sino-Japan war and Qing’s humiliation and eventual loss of Korea’s independence to Japan.
TL;DR; The whole of peninsula was never a part of China. Northern part of Korea was part of Han dynasty for roughly 200 years. Han Wudi conquered the northern Korea and parts of Manchuria and set up four commandaries, which is similar to colonial administration. Goguryeo later invaded and absorbed Han commandaries set up in northern Korea. During Korea’s three kingdom periods, Shilla eventually paid tribute to Tang, and became its tributary. Goguryeo refused Sui/Tang suzerainty and suffered multiple invasions - Sui dynasty essentially drove to ruins due to failed military campaigns against Korea, but Goguryeo was also greatly weakened. Eventually Tang and Shilla alliance destroyed Goguryeo. This resulted in Tang ruling norther Korea for about 30 years until Shilla invaded Tang territories and united Korean peninsula for the first time under one kingdom. Shortly after its victory against Tang, it became tributary of Tang essentially in return for China’s acceptance of Shilla’s claim on whole of Korean peninsula. This was the last time Korea and China fought each other. This tributary relationship dissolved as Tang fell and China entered prolonged civil war periods. But once Song was in power, and Goryeo was established, it became Song’s tributary. However, these tributary relationship was essentially in name only as Song did not have land connection to Goryeo, blocked by Liao dynasty. Goryeo received enormous annual gifts from Song for choosing to pay tribute to Song instead of Liao (Khitans). As a consequence, Liao invaded Goryeo multiple time, all failing although one came close to success. While Korea had tributary relationship with China, Korea wasn’t exactly defenseless as number of failed campaigns against Korea showed. As such, the tributary relationship was mostly nominal. For example, Song asked Goryeo to help it when Liao invaded Song, even sending dozens of ships full of gifts, yet Koreans ignored the plea every time. Likewise, Song ignored Korea’s plea for help when Goryeo asked Song’s help when Liao invaded Korea.
Mongols changed this equation. Granted it wasn’t the easiest conquest for Mongols either as they had to invaded Korea 9 times before Goryeo king finally surrendered. It was a conditional surrender, so Korea just became a tributary without being absorbed into Mongo empire like China did. However, Korean king was forced to marry Kubilai khan’s daughter, so Goryeo royal lineage became mixed with Mongol imperial family. For next three or four generations, Goryeo kings all married Mongol princesses from this point. This is the only period other than the Japanese occupation, Korea’s independence was just in name only. Goryeo kings considered themselves as much a Mongol imperial prince as he was a Goryeo king. Some of the Korean kings spent most of their lifetime in Karakorum - letting Korea be ruled by bureaucrats. It became so bad that eventually Yuan emperor told his son in law to go back to Korea to rule directly. Interestingly, Liao-dong was also put under Korean king’s administration during this period - this showed that Yuan court saw Korean king as one of their own as well. Lots of Koreans moved to Liao-Dong peninsula during this time as a result of this. While technically Korea still had its king and independent administration, it was hard to tell where Mongol rule ended and Goryeo rule began during this 50 year period.
Ming dynasty and Joseon - this is when Korea adopts Chinese neo-confucianism and become loyal tributary of Ming. It was still very much independent, but it definitely followed Ming’s party-line on almost all international politics. Ming in turn treated Joseon with respect and helped it when Korea was invaded by Japan. Korea in turn also sent military forces when Manchus invaded Ming.
Qing dynasty and Joseon - this was tributary in name only. Probably the only time Korean royal court had nothing but contempt for Chinese court although things do get better by 19th century. Joseon saw Qing as barbarians plain and simple, it accepted Qing’s military superiority and it did its tributary duties - mainly sending tributes, but Joseon really closed off its cultural door to China during this periods. This relationship changes near the end of 19th century as Japan encroached on Korea, Joseon court used its tributary relationship to get Qing’s help in quelling domestic rebellion and check Japanese encroachment. This resulted in Sino-Japan war and Qing’s humiliation and eventual loss of Korea’s independence to Japan.
Unless you are the original commenter, you might want to provide the link. This is the comment at the website I was referring to above.
04-20-2017, 05:38 PM
#39
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St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18
Originally Posted by C5 Pewter Coupe
It depends on how far back in history you want to go, because yes at several times in the past, Korea has been part of China.. (you too can google it)
04-20-2017, 05:41 PM
#40
CF Senior Member
I wouldn't be surprised if china And or Russia invaded North Korea...
Better that they do an invasion than us...for them and for us...
Russia's on north koreas border with its military prepared and I'm sure china is as well..
We don't care who takes this crazy North Korean leader out as long as he stops threatening an attack on the USA...
We don't really need or want to take over North Korea....let the Chinese have that land or Russia....so they have a buffer to the west ...
What do we care who is in charge over there...as long as they are not going to attack us or threaten to attack us...
I think that would be a smart move by Russia and china to split up North Korea...
The people who live in North Korea would be better off as well...
Jmo
Better that they do an invasion than us...for them and for us...
Russia's on north koreas border with its military prepared and I'm sure china is as well..
We don't care who takes this crazy North Korean leader out as long as he stops threatening an attack on the USA...
We don't really need or want to take over North Korea....let the Chinese have that land or Russia....so they have a buffer to the west ...
What do we care who is in charge over there...as long as they are not going to attack us or threaten to attack us...
I think that would be a smart move by Russia and china to split up North Korea...
The people who live in North Korea would be better off as well...
Jmo
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