Go Back  CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion > Off Topic > Politics, Religion & Controversy
Reload this Page >

Elizabeth Warren’s proposed ‘ultra-millionaire tax’

Politics, Religion & Controversy Politics | Religion | Controversy (Non-Corvette)

Elizabeth Warren’s proposed ‘ultra-millionaire tax’

 
Old 06-13-2019, 01:26 AM
  #81  
ZL1Vette
CF Senior Member
 
ZL1Vette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Rockland County New York
Posts: 29,030
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pdiddy972 View Post
As for your comment about $10M not being a lot to retire on, you are on a different planet. The average 67 year old retiring has around $74,000 saved. An invested portfolio of $10M being withdrawn at 4% (per the Trinity study, the amount where you're more likely to have more $ than you started with in 30 years) is a withdrawal of $400,000 a year (and that is inflation-adjusted, so year 2 like $408,000, etc). See http://FIRECalc.comI doubt many people are going to relate to your suggestion that it's tough to get by on $400,000 a year in retirement.
But the bulk of household net worth for those under $20 MM is in real estate.

Stocks, bonds, and other financial assets comprise only 20-40% on average.


So the $10 MM household probably has $5 MM in real estate (probably 2 houses) and $5 MM in financial assets which produces an income of about $200,000 which according to you means they are "The Greedy Rich" and after your wealth confiscation they can't afford their primary and vacation residences (assuming you haven't given them to Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez for a Puerto Rican Socialist shin-dig )

Last edited by ZL1Vette; 06-13-2019 at 01:27 AM.
ZL1Vette is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 01:55 AM
  #82  
Mr turbo rotary
CF Senior Member
 
Mr turbo rotary's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Va. Beach Va.
Posts: 45,961
Received 19 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Why does anyone think the government is all of the sudden entitled to someones earnings/wealth because they decide they they want to take it? What makes them think it's theirs to take? This is how dictators, Kings and tin pot tyrants operate. Is simply stunning you have politicians suggesting this. And PD the fact you think this is fine shows how damn dumb you really are.
Mr turbo rotary is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 07:58 AM
  #83  
PatternDayTrader
CF Senior Member
 
PatternDayTrader's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2008
Location: Lansing MI and Houston TX
Posts: 10,034
Received 781 Likes on 603 Posts
Default

Only a moron would actually believe that this sort of proposal will benefit anyone.

At this point, it should be obvious to everyone, that supporting a tax increase is the same as supporting the quality of life for politicians.

Throwing money at a problem means you don't have to solve the problem.

The dems remind me of my middle school student council election. The winner promised no homework, half days everyday, and grape soda in the drinking fountains.

Last edited by PatternDayTrader; 06-13-2019 at 08:08 AM.
PatternDayTrader is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 08:03 AM
  #84  
2500 hd
CF Senior Member
 
2500 hd's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2017
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,470
Received 90 Likes on 74 Posts
St. Jude Donor ‘18-'19
Default

There are so many people in this Country that their fair share, but don't want to work for it.
2500 hd is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 09:42 AM
  #85  
Derrick Reynolds
CF Senior Member
 
Derrick Reynolds's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: In limbo
Posts: 16,619
Received 21 Likes on 11 Posts
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15, '17-'18
Default

Originally Posted by pdiddy972 View Post
Not this lie again...

Annual federal expenditures - $4 trillion

Total wealth of the top 1% - net worth of $10.3M and up ($10.3M is the beginning of the top 1%). 1% of the USA is 3.3 million people.

Even assuming the entire top 1% ALL had a net worth of the lowest amount of $10.3M (which obviously many are far above that), that is 3.3 million people times a net worth of $10.3M each, or $33,990,000,000,000, or basically $34 trillion dollars.

That means, even by that extremely over conservative estimate, the net worth of just the top 1% (also a conservative definition of "rich") they would fund government fully for THIRTY FOUR YEARS.


https://dqydj.com/net-worth-brackets...s-one-percent/

EDIT: realized I screwed up my division. $34 trillion would fund a $4 trillion budget for 8.5 years.
You messed up a lot more than just the division. For example, the $10 million number is for HOUSEHOLDS, not individuals.

Most things I read peg the net worth of the top 1% at somewhere around $10 trillion, so the less than one year thing is probably false IMO, but nowhere near 34 years.

Edited to add: The "less than one year" thing I think is usually if we taxed the INCOME of the top 1% of earners at 100%, not grabbed all of their net worth.

Last edited by Derrick Reynolds; 06-13-2019 at 09:44 AM.
Derrick Reynolds is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 09:49 AM
  #86  
pdiddy972
CF Senior Member
 
pdiddy972's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,286
Received 367 Likes on 243 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ZL1Vette View Post
The EU is "bailing out" dozens of companies, their farm sector, state enterprises, labor unions, etc.

They just do it in a "stealth" manner that hides the cost from folks who don't understand basic finance. Financially ignorant and economically illiterate folks (ring a bell ? ) then point to Wall Street or U.S. companies while thinking that the EU doesn't do bailouts.

In fact, they do MORE in a year than the U.S. does in a decade. That's why unemployment EU-wide is closer to 8-10% and structurally they suffer from Eurosclerosis.

Did you know that Deutsche Bank is 1/25th her 2007 pre-crisis high whereas U.S. and UK banks have eclipsed their 2007 levels ?

Stop swallowing Elizabeth Warren's nonsense.
You should probably substantiate such statements when you make them.
pdiddy972 is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 09:51 AM
  #87  
pdiddy972
CF Senior Member
 
pdiddy972's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,286
Received 367 Likes on 243 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ZL1Vette View Post
Anybody who can't do short division probably shouldn't be parcing BLS and BEA statistics data.

So your estimate of funding the government gets cut by 75% or 25 years and you still think it's a good idea ?

1% of the U.S. TAXPAYING population is not 3.3 million. It's about 1.4 million. And most of their net worth is ILLIQUID (real estate) or would be worth less if they all had to sell (stocks, bonds).
We aren't discussing taxpayers.

We aren't discussing aspects of wealth that can't be liquidated. We're discussing net worth, and whether hypothetically they would fund government.
pdiddy972 is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 10:06 AM
  #88  
IMBoring25
CF Senior Member
 
IMBoring25's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I didn't say it was hard to live on $400k. I said it's not as much as you think it is. It's not a Thurston Howell existence. And even that is disingenuous because no one's net worth is 100% invested in income-producing instruments.

It also so happens that, nationwide, the top 1% income also happens to lie in the 400s. The kind of number that a small businessowner might have in a really good year, and then have to live (and keep the business alive) on the savings from that for a down year or two.
IMBoring25 is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 10:07 AM
  #89  
IMBoring25
CF Senior Member
 
IMBoring25's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 2,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pdiddy972 View Post
We aren't discussing taxpayers.

We aren't discussing aspects of wealth that can't be liquidated. We're discussing net worth, and whether hypothetically they would fund government.
If it can't be liquidated, how do you tax it?
IMBoring25 is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:28 AM
  #90  
pdiddy972
CF Senior Member
 
pdiddy972's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,286
Received 367 Likes on 243 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by IMBoring25 View Post
I didn't say it was hard to live on $400k. I said it's not as much as you think it is. It's not a Thurston Howell existence. And even that is disingenuous because no one's net worth is 100% invested in income-producing instruments.

It also so happens that, nationwide, the top 1% income also happens to lie in the 400s. The kind of number that a small businessowner might have in a really good year, and then have to live (and keep the business alive) on the savings from that for a down year or two.
Luckily we're not discussing income, but rather net worth.
pdiddy972 is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:29 AM
  #91  
pdiddy972
CF Senior Member
 
pdiddy972's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,286
Received 367 Likes on 243 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by IMBoring25 View Post
If it can't be liquidated, how do you tax it?
A net worth tax, obviously. But I never said to tax it; I was rebutting the ridiculous idea that the rich"s net worth wouldn't fund government for any appreciable amount of time.
pdiddy972 is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:35 AM
  #92  
ZL1Vette
CF Senior Member
 
ZL1Vette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Rockland County New York
Posts: 29,030
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pdiddy972 View Post
You should probably substantiate such statements when you make them.
That's like me saying crime is a bigger problem in the inner cities than the suburbs or rural areas, and you wanting proof.

Read Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's columns in the UK Telegraph....just last week he wrote about how the EU protects failing companies which is why China and the U.S. dominate AI, tech, social media, etc. Farming is protected too under the guise of "health" -- did you know that 67 people die each year in France from salmonella poisoning because of their refusal to utilize our meets and our standards? That's like 250 in the U.S., proportionately !!

Airbus is a boondoggle (good planes, lousy finances)....farming is basically welfare....the socialized healthcare industry is supported by theft (U.S. drug companies) and bans on non-EU countries providing services.

Funny.....United Healthcare can't go to the UK or EU and offer services cheaper and bid....but the same companies steal U.S. drug company patents and trademarks.
ZL1Vette is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:38 AM
  #93  
ZL1Vette
CF Senior Member
 
ZL1Vette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Rockland County New York
Posts: 29,030
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pdiddy972 View Post
We aren't discussing aspects of wealth that can't be liquidated. We're discussing net worth, and whether hypothetically they would fund government.
But most of that net worth CAN'T be liquidated !!!!

Jeff Bezos and his wife can't sell their AMZN stock because (1) it would depress the current market value and (2) it would lead to loss of control issues.

How are retired celebrities with little income or financial assets but living in homes worth $10 MM supposed to pay the wealth tax when 95% of their wealth is in their primary residence ?
ZL1Vette is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:39 AM
  #94  
ZL1Vette
CF Senior Member
 
ZL1Vette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Rockland County New York
Posts: 29,030
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pdiddy972 View Post
A net worth tax, obviously. But I never said to tax it; I was rebutting the ridiculous idea that the rich"s net worth wouldn't fund government for any appreciable amount of time.
It won't....the collapse in financial assets would crater the economy and the budget deficit would double or triple in under a year.

The lost output would dwarf the taxes supposedly gained.
ZL1Vette is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:43 AM
  #95  
ZL1Vette
CF Senior Member
 
ZL1Vette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Rockland County New York
Posts: 29,030
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Look at the actual numbers from the Fed's Z.1:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/relea...e_sheet/table/

30% of household net worth is in real estate -- how do you "sell" that ? I can sell part of my stock holdings, what do I do with my condo -- sell or rent out the bathroom ?
ZL1Vette is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 03:02 PM
  #96  
Jughead
Senior Member since 1492
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Jughead's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: 1.Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me... 2.Build the WALL!
Posts: 73,531
Received 120 Likes on 96 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09
Default

Originally Posted by SlothX311 View Post
Top 3 wealthiest individuals in the country own more accumulated wealth than the bottom 50%. How much revenue is enough?


Link?
Jughead is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 04:55 PM
  #97  
Richard Thomas
CF Senior Member
 
Richard Thomas's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: The Stanley Keg TEXAS
Posts: 7,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Default

Originally Posted by SlothX311 View Post
Wasn't the GOP up in arms when the government (Obama) was bailing out big banks and American car brands deemed "too big to fail" yet paying their CEOs bonuses? Why is it okay for Jeff Bezos to acquire an insane amount of wealth while paying his employees an immoral wage?
Interesting, I work at that place of immoral wages now. I look out on the floor daily. No one seems to be beating down the exit to leave this place. In fact, I see new seasonal faces frequently. And if they perform up to the standards that are well published and obtainable, they can sometimes convert to a full time employee.

Also, here at this place no one wants to work at, there are numerous opportunities to take other positions. You know, pretty much like in any corporation. No one is stopping anyone from becoming a CEO.

Speak of what you know, not of what you hear.
Richard Thomas is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 04:58 PM
  #98  
Richard Thomas
CF Senior Member
 
Richard Thomas's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: The Stanley Keg TEXAS
Posts: 7,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Default

Originally Posted by SlothX311 View Post
Top 3 wealthiest individuals in the country own more accumulated wealth than the bottom 50%. How much revenue is enough?
What keeps any American citizen from becoming a wealthy CEO? Build a better mousetrap, charge what you want.

Stop being that person that says 'I deserve more, just because he has it."
Richard Thomas is offline  
Old 06-13-2019, 05:36 PM
  #99  
Derrick Reynolds
CF Senior Member
 
Derrick Reynolds's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: In limbo
Posts: 16,619
Received 21 Likes on 11 Posts
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15, '17-'18
Default

Originally Posted by SlothX311 View Post
Wasn't the GOP up in arms when the government (Obama) was bailing out big banks and American car brands deemed "too big to fail" yet paying their CEOs bonuses? Why is it okay for Jeff Bezos to acquire an insane amount of wealth while paying his employees an immoral wage?
Please define "immoral wage" in dollars per hour terms.

Full time Amazon workers, even the guys sweeping the floors, start at a minimum of $15 per hour with full benefits. This sound suspiciously similar to the Democrat's "living wage" amount.
Derrick Reynolds is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 09:19 AM
  #100  
Richard Thomas
CF Senior Member
 
Richard Thomas's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: The Stanley Keg TEXAS
Posts: 7,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Default

Originally Posted by Derrick Reynolds View Post
Please define "immoral wage" in dollars per hour terms.

Full time Amazon workers, even the guys sweeping the floors, start at a minimum of $15 per hour with full benefits. This sound suspiciously similar to the Democrat's "living wage" amount.
Guess he has nothing...as usual, most don't that come in spewing their "they don't make enough" garbage.

A little background on this $15/hr wage. An associate comes in day 1 making that and usually gets put in a picker or packer job. Requires maybe a tad more intelligence than a burger flipper. Let's start at the packer. They stand at a station. Their box comes down the automated conveyance system. The screen tells them which box to pack the package in. They pack, close, tape, and send it once again down the automated conveyance. This goes over to the shipping area, yeah via automation. It gets put into a truck Tetris style. Thousands of boxes into a truck. So as an employer, are either of these jobs worth more than $15? I think not. Same goes for the picker. Their products to be picked are delivered via robotics. It's removed from the pod, placed in a tub, and sent via automation to the pickers.

Now, after mastering these skills, you can internally apply to many different job openings. You know, to better yourself in a corporation, and oh no, a chance to make more money. Who'd a thunk it that if you do good, you can get promoted and make more money? Oh the horror.

So this horrible wage and mean company would dare give someone a job so that idiots like the commenter can get their ***** or bag of m&ms in 2 days or call in to complain and get $5 off their next shipment.

I may not agree with Bezo's politics, but I appreciate that he had an idea and formed a major company to employ thousands of people, me being one of them. You know, that American dream thing.

No, I'm not one of the floor workers. I got an education and prior work experience and used said knowledge to apply to one of the other jobs Amazon offers. This really goes for any of those bad companies that would dare hire someone and pay them. Damn capitalism.

Last edited by Richard Thomas; 06-14-2019 at 09:20 AM.
Richard Thomas is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Elizabeth Warren’s proposed ‘ultra-millionaire tax’


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: