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Are you a Christian Atheist?

 
Old 05-16-2019, 01:48 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Duck916 View Post
Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part. It just seems odd that there would be no purpose at all. And by purpose I am not speaking of a purpose for us little ol' humans, but for this huge, magnificent universe. If there is a creator, I strongly doubt he/she/it sees us as particularly meaningful.
Again, subject vs. object. Does the made thing say to the One who made it "Why did you make me this way???"

I have built cars. I was quite proud of them. To me, they were meaningful and beautiful. is it that unreasonable to think that the one that made us is any less proud of what he has made? He really is not obligated to tell us why He did all this...

Sometimes all one has to do in order to be happy and content is just...be happy and content
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:25 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by birdsmith View Post
Perhaps you're confusing "couldn't" with "wouldn't"...or "didn't"

HONESTLY NOW...Has the thought ever crossed your oh-so-superior mind that you are not the object of God's creation but just one of billions upon billions of SUBJECTS, and that this God that you clearly despise so much neither does nor needs to answer to...you?

An astute observer looks at observable evidence and then makes observations or perhaps even draws educated conclusions based upon what he or she sees from that evidence.

An ignorant observer draws a conclusion beforehand, without honestly examining the evidence around them.

Regardless of the outlandish nature of some Biblical claims (and I agree-they certainly do SEEM outlandish), the underlying message in all of these claims is that there is an inestimably powerful force in this Universe, that created the Universe and the Earth. Moreover, as the products of that being's power, we are SUBJECT to His whim and will. Your continuous denial of that reality won't make it go away...
Brassplayer seems to have a problem with the gift of free will. I suspect if God hadn't given free will to humans, Brassguy would bitch about that too.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:04 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by birdsmith View Post
Again, subject vs. object. Does the made thing say to the One who made it "Why did you make me this way???"

I have built cars. I was quite proud of them. To me, they were meaningful and beautiful. is it that unreasonable to think that the one that made us is any less proud of what he has made? He really is not obligated to tell us why He did all this...

Sometimes all one has to do in order to be happy and content is just...be happy and content

You made cars that were meaning and beautiful. In the process of making those, you made other things--welding slag, paint overspray, etc. I'm just saying that we're the slag, not the beautiful car.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:59 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by 69427 View Post
How's progress going on that Right vs Wrong chart?
It would be easier for you to make the chart.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:06 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Aerovette View Post
Except that it wasn't magic. It was God... and if he wanted you dead before the end of this sentence, it would happen regardless of your physical condition or desires.

And Santa is bringing me a million bucks this Christmas.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:17 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by shane p View Post
And Santa is bringing me a million bucks this Christmas.

Let me know when Santa becomes the son of God and has 2000 plus years of history written in a book that started over 3500 years ago and has sold more than any other in existence.

Until then, have a Coke and smile and listen to some Highway to Hell for inspiration.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:43 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Aerovette View Post
Let me know when Santa becomes the son of God and has 2000 plus years of history written in a book that started over 3500 years ago and has sold more than any other in existence.

Until then, have a Coke and smile and listen to some Highway to Hell for inspiration.

Let me me know when you can back up some of that. Iím not a big fan of AC/DC, Iím more of a Slayer type.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:47 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by shane p View Post
It would be easier for you to make the chart.
Don't pawn off your physical and intellectual laziness on me. You made the claim, lets see some information to back up your post.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:07 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by 69427 View Post
Don't pawn off your physical and intellectual laziness on me. You made the claim, lets see some information to back up your post.
Some has already been talked about in this very thread.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:12 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Themack View Post
Yes, unfortunately in medicine especially in the field of psychology they dismiss anything that has any form of conjecture or prophetic sense as pseudoscience, and a chance in the laboratory as wasted time and research funds, this is the problem. We now have more stuff coming out of hollywood syfy than our own military has. You know that whole abortion thing?.. Well, once the science can prove that the spirit is reincarnated into the baby around the 3 week mark in the womb, and a abortion is committed then it is considered murder.
I'm not following your point there, but it did remind me of a Mallard Fillmore cartoon from the other week.


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Old 05-16-2019, 07:13 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by shane p View Post
Some has already been talked about in this very thread.
Let's see your list.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:38 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by birdsmith View Post
I myself have to admit that it's impossible not to doubt somewhat the fantastic nature of an account like Noah's Ark, but then I ask "If it's just a ridiculous made-up fantasy, why on Earth would somebody make up a fantastical story like that and then go to such lengths to preserve it down through the ages?"
Stories like Noah's Ark didn't originate with the Bible, they're passed along and modified over time via oral tradition from much older civilizations. Have you ever looked into the origins of the Bible(s)? There's nothing known for sure about where the writings come from other than some are vastly older than others. Some people claim it's known who some of the original authors are but all such claims are rooted in confirmation bias. How it evolved involves a degree of politics and arbitrary decree. There is no "original" Bible and obviously the old and new testaments weren't authored together.

I hate to be the bearer of more bad news but the "Christmas" tree and other trappings you likely associate with Christmas because that's the way it's been since you've been around are co-opted from ancient pagan society.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:24 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Duck916 View Post
You made cars that were meaning and beautiful. In the process of making those, you made other things--welding slag, paint overspray, etc. I'm just saying that we're the slag, not the beautiful car.
Just...WOW
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:37 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by brassplyer View Post
Stories like Noah's Ark didn't originate with the Bible, they're passed along and modified over time via oral tradition from much older civilizations. Have you ever looked into the origins of the Bible(s)? There's nothing known for sure about where the writings come from other than some are vastly older than others. Some people claim it's known who some of the original authors are but all such claims are rooted in confirmation bias. How it evolved involves a degree of politics and arbitrary decree. There is no "original" Bible and obviously the old and new testaments weren't authored together.

I hate to be the bearer of more bad news but the "Christmas" tree and other trappings you likely associate with Christmas because that's the way it's been since you've been around are co-opted from ancient pagan society.
I'll be more than happy to examine any ancient documents you can come up with that predate the Biblical documents alluding to the Noahic flood.

There is nothing in either the OT or NT that references Easter bunnies, Christmas trees, Santa Claus, or any of the other pagan fertility rituals that the Catholic Church associates with Christmas and Easter.

I am most assuredly NOT a follower of Santa Claus or the Easter bunny, I am a [feeble, struggling] follower of Jesus Christ. If you were to try and assign a denomination to me, I claim NO denomination other than that of one who is trying to the best of his ability to seek and understand God's truth.

But you won't even dare leave home plate. When confronted with the all-too obvious and in-your-face evidence that a Creator exists (and I'm not referring to the specific Biblical God Elohim) you deflect and point to miraculous events referred to in the Bible as the reason that you don't believe in ANY God of ANY kind, which I consider throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You're avoiding the discussion for fear of perhaps being proven wrong...

I really could live with the notion that God does not exist. But really, to my eyes, the evidence just isn't there, regardless of what the public schools and the Discovery Channel says. If there is no God, I die and that's the end of it. But I WANT God to exist, I want to see His Creation when I am finally liberated from this body.

You seem to want to shut Him out at any possible cost...
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:37 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by birdsmith View Post
I'll be more than happy to examine any ancient documents you can come up with that predate the Biblical documents alluding to the Noahic flood.
Look up the Sumerian story of Gilgamesh. Predates the earliest known biblical manuscripts by a lot.

But you won't even dare leave home plate. When confronted with the all-too obvious and in-your-face evidence that a Creator exists (and I'm not referring to the specific Biblical God Elohim) you deflect and point to miraculous events referred to in the Bible as the reason that you don't believe in ANY God of ANY kind, which I consider throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You're avoiding the discussion for fear of perhaps being proven wrong...
You're making accusations when you haven't even begun to define your terms. What precisely do you mean by "God"? What do you mean by a "creator"? I know that the universe exists, where it all comes from or the minute details of how it all works I have no idea and neither does any scientist on the planet. I've seen nothing to support the notion that it exists because of a volitional consciousness or that it has any connection to any individuals alleged to have existed long after the formation of the Earth which happened long after whatever event spawned the material the Earth is composed of.

I really could live with the notion that God does not exist. But really, to my eyes, the evidence just isn't there, regardless of what the public schools and the Discovery Channel says. If there is no God, I die and that's the end of it. But I WANT God to exist, I want to see His Creation when I am finally liberated from this body.
You're making a number of assumptions and assertions without any substantiation.

Apparently you don't have much familiarity with what goes on in the public schools - I assure you there are factions who want religion to be a part of public school life, there are those like me who know that religion or religious ceremony has no place being an official part of public school activities. No one can stop you from reflecting on your religion in the privacy of your own mind. I'm not aware of any school that prohibits students from carrying or reading whatever their holy book is. They might have an issue with them proselytizing to others if there are complaints.

You desperately want God to exist. Think that might color your conclusions?

You seem to want to shut Him out at any possible cost...
Lol. Let me try to put in perspective what that sounds like to me - "You seem to want to shut the Leprechaun King out at any possible cost."

You haven't begun to define what this entity is nor presented any strong argument that this entity exists that isn't based on wishes, tradition and self-referencing circular reasoning. What I don't accept is people trying to foist this whim-based paradigm on others in an environment in which it's inappropriate.
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:52 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by 69427 View Post
Let's see your list.

Not my list but its a list. Im sure I could find more. https://www.news24.com/MyNews24/The-...-more-20120517
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:13 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by brassplyer View Post
Look up the Sumerian story of Gilgamesh. Predates the earliest known biblical manuscripts by a lot.


You're making accusations when you haven't even begun to define your terms. What precisely do you mean by "God"? What do you mean by a "creator"? I know that the universe exists, where it all comes from or the minute details of how it all works I have no idea and neither does any scientist on the planet. I've seen nothing to support the notion that it exists because of a volitional consciousness or that it has any connection to any individuals alleged to have existed long after the formation of the Earth which happened long after whatever event spawned the material the Earth is composed of.


You're making a number of assumptions and assertions without any substantiation.

Apparently you don't have much familiarity with what goes on in the public schools - I assure you there are factions who want religion to be a part of public school life, there are those like me who know that religion or religious ceremony has no place being an official part of public school activities. No one can stop you from reflecting on your religion in the privacy of your own mind. I'm not aware of any school that prohibits students from carrying or reading whatever their holy book is. They might have an issue with them proselytizing to others if there are complaints.

You desperately want God to exist. Think that might color your conclusions?


Lol. Let me try to put in perspective what that sounds like to me - "You seem to want to shut the Leprechaun King out at any possible cost."

You haven't begun to define what this entity is nor presented any strong argument that this entity exists that isn't based on wishes, tradition and self-referencing circular reasoning. What I don't accept is people trying to foist this whim-based paradigm on others in an environment in which it's inappropriate.
The word "Creator" is quite self-explanatory. I would go ahead and print out Webster's definition for you, but I'll give you credit for being intelligent enough to already know. You're avoiding the issue, plain and simple. If you don't wish to confront your own mortality, fine. JUST SAY SO.

When you say that my conclusions are "colored" by my desire for God to exist, I wouldn't really call them conclusions. I call it BELIEF. But I haven't even begun to argue Christian dogma with you, because (again) you seem confused every time I mention the word "God". If you really want me to define God, there is absolutely no way that I nor anybody else in the human race could possibly do that. I look at the Earth and what I see of the Universe and how complex it is and deduce that it is the product of an incredibly intelligent and powerful force. Which I call "God".

Does that help?

Last edited by birdsmith; 05-17-2019 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:23 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by birdsmith View Post
The word "Creator" is quite self-explanatory. I would go ahead and print out Webster's definition for you, but I'll give you credit for being intelligent enough to already know. You're avoiding the issue, plain and simple. If you don't wish to confront your own mortality, fine. JUST SAY SO.

When you say that my conclusions are "colored" by my desire for God to exist, I wouldn't really call them conclusions. I call it BELIEF. But I haven't even begun to argue Christian dogma with you, because (again) you seem confused every time I mention the word "God".
Any "confusion" as to what you mean is on you. You're all over the place with your use of terms.

When confronted with the all-too obvious and in-your-face evidence that a Creator exists (and I'm not referring to the specific Biblical God Elohim)
If you don't mean the biblical "God" then you need to clarify what *you* mean, saying Webster's as if this sums it up doesn't cut it.

If you really want me to define God, there is absolutely no way that I nor anybody else in the human race could possibly do that.
So you're asserting absolute "belief" in something you can't define, can't give any parameters for. That's not a belief that's a whim.

I look at the Earth and what I see of the Universe and how complex it is and deduce that it is the product of an incredibly intelligent and powerful force. Which I call "God".
Because you don't understand how it works your default is that the only possible explanation is that it's the result of a volitional consciousness. And that it's directly connected to Noah, Moses, Jesus etc. Because some ancient texts of unknown origin from a time before mankind knew about microbes or that the Earth is a globe and orbits the sun say so.

And that this all-powerful, all-encompassing consciousness couldn't manage to create mankind to behave to its liking and could only come up with a really kludgy way to rectify the issue.

Does that help?
It tells me your so-called belief is rooted in completely standard-issue, highly unexamined wishful thinking.

Last edited by brassplyer; 05-17-2019 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:45 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by brassplyer View Post
Any "confusion" as to what you mean is on you. You're all over the place with your use of terms.


If you don't mean the biblical "God" then you need to clarify what *you* mean, saying Webster's as if this sums it up doesn't cut it.


So you're asserting absolute "belief" in something you can't define. That's not a belief that's a whim.


Because you don't understand how it works your default is that the only possible explanation is that it's the result of a volitional consciousness. And that it's directly connected to Noah, Moses, Jesus etc. Because some ancient texts of unknown origin from a time before mankind knew about microbes or that the Earth is a globe and orbits the sun say so.

And that this all-powerful, all-encompassing consciousness couldn't manage to create mankind to behave to its liking and could only come up with a really kludgy way to rectify the issue.


It tells me your so-called belief is rooted in completely standard-issue, highly unexamined wishful thinking.
When I initially posted here, it was my intention to address what the OP asked, which I did. OP then asked if I knew why he posted his initial question, I answered in the negative, and indicated that perhaps he could enlighten me.

He never did.

Then you stepped in.

I indicated that I believe in a God that created the Universe. Apparently whenever somebody says something like this to you, you fly into an endless multisyllabic rage trying to pick my arguments apart.

You're not a believer. Just leave it at that. This is the part where I cease further communication with you.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:50 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by birdsmith View Post
When I initially posted here, it was my intention to address what the OP asked, which I did. OP then asked if I knew why he posted his initial question, I answered in the negative, and indicated that perhaps he could enlighten me.

He never did.

Then you stepped in.
That's how open forums work, others get to step in. I replied to this:

"If it's just a ridiculous made-up fantasy, why on Earth would somebody make up a fantastical story like that and then go to such lengths to preserve it down through the ages?"
In which you make fundamentally inaccurate assertions, which you follow up with more inaccurate and/or poorly defined assertions.

I indicated that I believe in a God that created the Universe. Apparently whenever somebody says something like this to you, you fly into an endless multisyllabic rage trying to pick my arguments apart.
Multisyllabic rage. Hmmm. Which seems to translate to - I make points that you don't have good rebuttals for.

You're not a believer. Just leave it at that. This is the part where I cease further communication with you.
Thus far you haven't done a good job of communicating exactly what it is you "believe" in, I don't have any reason to think you're going to improve.
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