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Home title or deed theft - really?

 
Old 05-15-2019, 03:13 PM
  #21  
69L46
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
That is the express purpose of the notary.
Someone who really wants to be sure about their title chain should just make it a point to look every so often.
The majority of recorded documents are online, and if not free, there is a summary of the content that will be free.

And as documented the notary's signature it can be circumvented via fraud.

There has to be a more robust process for protection in this area than simply relying on a signature or expecting the homeowner to simply 'check periodically'. By then the damage may be done.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:20 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
What a pain the backside.
Ive bought at least 60 houses on the courthouse steps, they all had surprises of some sort.
I've bought about that many as well. You are correct, they all have surprise. Love doing it though.

My best was a three story townhouse with white carpet in several rooms, left it absolutely in new house condition, one tiny bag of trash in the garage.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:20 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by 69L46 View Post
And as documented the notary's signature it can be circumvented via fraud.

There has to be a more robust process for protection in this area than simply relying on a signature or expecting the homeowner to simply 'check periodically'. By then the damage may be done.
Ive spent a ton of time doing title searches and interacting with recorders office employees. These are not the people you want to trust with this issue, and while its certain there is a way to improve things, it should not include the clerks in these offices.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:26 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by hope2 View Post
I've bought about that many as well. You are correct, they all have surprise. Love doing it though.

My best was a three story townhouse with white carpet in several rooms, left it absolutely in new house condition, one tiny bag of trash in the garage.
Nice.
Foreclosure auctions are really the only way to get a really good deal. Mostly because they are risky.
Back in the 08-09 time period, the fastest real estate money game on earth was the Clark County Nevada (Las Vegas) foreclosure auction.
No redemption period, and you could evict in about a month.
Plus some of the condos in high rise buildings were so mispriced it sounds like fiction. It was easy to see how it would happen though. Comp a unit near the top floor with a view of the strip, against something on the fourth floor, and they would be off by seven figures. Truly an unbelievable game, and an amazing time period.

Last edited by PatternDayTrader; 05-15-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:32 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
Ive spent a ton of time doing title searches and interacting with recorders office employees. These are not the people you want to trust with this issue, and while its certain there is a way to improve things, it should not include the clerks in these offices.

Not saying itís incumbent upon them, but some additional layers of protection are definitely needed, especially given how these crimes are quite often perpetrated upon the elderly and those in assisted-living.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:34 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 69L46 View Post
Not saying itís incumbent upon them, but some additional layers of protection are definitely needed, especially given how these crimes are quite often perpetrated upon the elderly and those in assisted-living.
The assisted living is an important point.
These sorts of things almost always happen to houses that are vacant. Its too difficult to pull the scam off on an occupied house.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:06 PM
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It was worse here in Florida, we had a rash of miscreants moving into abandoned homes claiming "adverse possession" and often it took a whole lot of litigation to blow them out of there....
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:17 PM
  #28  
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:41 PM
  #29  
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They move into empty houses (Greater Atlanta) here too. You have to evict through the court system. Totally a civil issue. Savvy invaders can use the system to live free for several months or longer.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:56 PM
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I've always believe that the inundation of the media ads selling ID Theft Insurance at the exactly the same time as ID theft was becoming a known thing was just a coincidence. Especially if you research what banking industries are behind the sales of this insurance. They would never burn the customers candle/funds at both ends . . .
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:40 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
The assisted living is an important point.
These sorts of things almost always happen to houses that are vacant. Its too difficult to pull the scam off on an occupied house.

Sadly, the elderly are too often the target of crimes of opportunity such as this; to make matters worse, it's often family members involved since they are closer to the specifics of that individual's situation and know they will be indisposed and unable to react.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:00 PM
  #32  
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Though that article is 10 years old, some interesting lessons to be learned. Hopefully Philly has plugged those holes in their system (see bolded below - DUH!!).
The members of the Grand Jury also heard evidence regarding the manner in which deeds are processed in Philadelphia and how the conspirators exploited this process to commit fraud. Specifically, Joan Decker, Commissioner of the Department of Records testified before the Grand Jury stating that the title transfer history of property in Philadelphia is a matter of public record and that any member of the public may obtain information about past or current ownership of property regardless of whether he or she has a legitimate reason to do so. This information is easily obtained either in City Hall or through the use of the City’s automated computer system PhilaDox, which is accessible through the internet for a nominal fee. State law governs the actual process of recording deeds and mandates that anyone may record a deed as long as the deed meets sixteen criteria. The individual recording does not have to be the buyer, seller or have any relationship whatsoever to the property being transferred. Decker explained that there are sixteen criteria which focus on the content of the deed and mainly insure that certain information is provided within the document. It is not, however, the Department of Record’s responsibility to verify the accuracy or veracity of the information provided. State law mandates the recording of all deeds that meet the sixteen essential criteria.
I could imagine a stand-your ground scenario where the rightful owner pulls out a gun facing off a fraudulent claimant and the cops have no way to arbitrate it real time. What happens when the stand-your-ground true owner refuses to back down or worse? No doubt, stand-your-ground is pre-empted when you’re doing it against a cop’s orders.

Last edited by Peva; 05-16-2019 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:48 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by hope2 View Post
Anyone can walk into a County Clerk and file anything. There is no ID request, there is no fact check, there is no check at all. Very little if any law enforcement after the face. It becomes a royal pain in the *** to align things after they are destroyed. And, it cost money. Freeze your credit is the best all around answer.

I bought a foreclosure last year at the courthouse, after finally evicting the debtor and rehab the debtor leased it to someone, collect 2 large and they moved in. **** happens.

First off....you buy a foreclosure....YOU change the locks....all of them.
That is foreclosure buying rule number 1.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:02 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
It was worse here in Florida, we had a rash of miscreants moving into abandoned homes claiming "adverse possession" and often it took a whole lot of litigation to blow them out of there....

Adverse possession takes 7yrs and must be open and notorious......

Squatting is totally different.

First step...call the police immediately for trespassing.
Next give notice...post on the door and file Unlawful Detainer
Contact county sheriff after court hearing.
Hire moving crew to remove contents with sheriff there.
Pretty basic eviction stuff.
Not to say there aren't those that knowing how to scam & will tie you up if they can.
We had a college professor get 6 months free rent on one of our places by bumping it to state court and then filing appeals.
When eviction day came she had 3 moving vans there and the eviction crew loaded it for her.
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